Tax cuts for the rich and tax havens are structures of sin

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VonDerTann said:
I don’t see it as a lack of resources. We certainly have plenty of that. Lack of virtue? Hmmm…well, maybe as you define it, but that maybe skates close to the edge of “the poor are poor because they don’t work hard.”
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That’s not really what I am saying.
Many poor are poor because they do not know how to work hard.
The young man I mentioned above sleeps until 2-3pm on a Sunday. Even planning a pleasant outing to the park is difficult because his mother doesn’t know that sleeping until 3 in the afternoon is probably going to land him in prison, where people are provided with the discipline they don’t have.
 
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Yeah, I won’t argue with any of that. You look what’s on TV and you see our culture going to heck.

Curious about the young man you refer to. How old is he? And is dad in the picture?
 
16 yrs old now. Dad is addicted and out of the picture (that’s where mentors try to help). Mom has different fathers in the picture.

The young man is on house arrest for minor scrapes with the law, not allowed to see others or hang with others and yet…another man lives in the house.

These kinds of problems are pandemic among the poor.
In fact it’s not fair to say that just the poor have these issues, the wealthy also have them and all classes in between.
 
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Sigh…so sadly predictable.

It’s really wonderful that you are tying to help. I think the lack of positive role models is very hard for kind of young people you’re seeing.

My poverty experience as an adult is in rural areas. In the areas I know too well, some kids literally don’t know anyone who might be called “successful.” It’s a serious problem.
 
In any case, we have a responsibility to help the poor and I don’t want to detract from that.
The hardest thing is to drop our demands that others “earn it” before we help. I think today on Good Friday, the Cross is evidence that love doesn’t demand worthiness before it helps.
 
VonDerTann said:
Why not get out and see the world?
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been there, done that, heard the stories and lived the reality.
VonDerTann said:
I am as pro-USA and as pro-hard work as they come - but in light of the literally millions of job losses in the last 2 weeks,
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these times are not normal and can’t be used to justify prior biased UN reporting or the pope’s statement which was obviously pre-pandemic.
VonDerTann said:
–a world where poeple sometimes live in tunnels and under bridges?

–a world where the demand at food pantries has risen 600% this month?

–a world where similac-brand and other infant formula is sometimes kept under lock and key in grocery stores (suggesting it gets stolen all the time)?

–a world where - like I said - people reuse their wash water?
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there is no denying we have a low number of people who live in extreme poverty but there is usually a reason. we need to define the reason why the support system, that keeps most Americans out of extreme poverty, failed these people. programs are available,
VonDerTann said:
You don’t know what poverty is till you see someone use krazy glue to hold their teeth in their mouth. I saw that done with my own two eyes.
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never saw that, but, I have seen terrible dental issues but much of it was related to illegal drug use? why were they krazy-gluing their teeth? what was their reason?

in reference to what the pope says, we don’t have the numbers of extreme poverty that is experienced in some parts of the world.
 
The man with the krazy glued teeth was in NY. He used it to glue his teeth in.
 
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What is the number one predictor of child poverty?
Being born to unmarried parents.
When has anyone heard a Catholic Bishop address this, or suggest that people should refrain from casual sex, premarital sex, fornication, call it what you will?
 
I would also keep in mind, that Pope Francis is from Argentina and lives in Europe, so he’s going to have a different view of Taxation anyway, because taxes work differently there than other parts of the world.
 
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Story time:

I had a client years ago, he has passed away. He was a black man who was raised by a white family down in Louisiana. Great guy, retired from the postal service. He was Catholic, but did had not attended a Catholic church regularly since the Catholic church which served the black community in our town was closed when they built our current church back in the 60’s. He choose to attend a protestant church locally, because he and other blacks felt that there was a disservice done to their community when the mission which served them was closed.

Back to the story though. I was in his grocery store one day and he was talking to a customer. His store was right next to one of the housing projects in our town. He also had several rental properties which he rented to people in the same neighborhood.

After he was done talking to the customer I said, Mr. X, you were kind of harsh with that lady weren’t you. He responded to me by saying. “You know sometimes when people fall down, you have to put your foot on their neck for a while and keep them down for a bit. If you help them up too quickly, they don’t always appreciate the help they are given and will keep falling”.

I had to think about that for a while since at the time I was in my maybe late 20’s or possibly 30.

Like I said, he was a great guy. Would do most anything to help someone, and am pretty certain he never let someone’s child go hungry or without personal hygiene items if he could help them. I do think he had a good point though.

Have we in our country developed a mentality among some people of just wanting to get by. Have we taken the incentive to really succeed away from some people by making life bearable enough without having to put much effort into it that they are ok, with simply having a roof over their head and food on the table.

Not trying to derail the thread, but thinking outside the box about what some consider poverty in this country, which compared to many parts of the world is certainly not poverty, and why some don’t really have a desire to change their own circumstances.
 
To add some real world figures to the thread. I just pulled up two customers, both single, both professionals, both using standard deduction on this years tax return.

Number 1:

Total income, including tax exempt interest, exempt interest dividends, everything.
$781,107, with total taxes paid, including income tax, SS and medicare out of their W-2, $237,537 or 30.4% of their income.

Number 2:

Total income: $86,260, no exempt interest, dividend or anything like that, total taxes paid including income tax, SS and medicare. $17,599, or 20.4% of their income.

Based on just these two individuals, one of their incomes is 9 times higher than the other, with a 10% increase in total taxes paid as a percentage of income. Did the higher earner take advantage of the tax system by sheltering some of their income from taxes and paying a lower percentage of tax on capital gains ect. Yes. Did they gripe about the amount of taxes paid, you betcha. Is it sinful, not my call.
 
Probably worth dropping this here:

"OUR leaders have asked for “shared sacrifice.” But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.

While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks. Some of us are investment managers who earn billions from our daily labors but are allowed to classify our income as “carried interest,” thereby getting a bargain 15 percent tax rate. Others own stock index futures for 10 minutes and have 60 percent of their gain taxed at 15 percent, as if they’d been long-term investors.

These and other blessings are showered upon us by legislators in Washington who feel compelled to protect us, much as if we were spotted owls or some other endangered species. It’s nice to have friends in high places." Warren Buffett

Undoubtedly, someone will google this story, and quote from one of the many pro-mega rich sites that claim Buffett’s contention (that his secretary pays a larger percentage of her income in taxes than him is bogus). They are all making a deliberately incorrect argument: they are only looking at income tax, when he explicitly includes payroll taxes.

It’s good to be rich in America, and the richer you are, the better you are. That absolutely spits in the face of Jesus’ message.

 
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It does seem good to be rich. Is it sinful to earn a lot? Depends on your manner of doing business, I suppose.
However, there is nothing stopping Buffett or anyone else in the megarich category from giving a whole lot of $$ to the poor, to the US government, to any charitable or religious organization. The Bible nor the catechism doesn’t say that the only way to help the poor is by funneling tax money through the government- industrial poverty complex.
Also, I hate to be the one to break it to the poster above who mentioned formula being under lock and key, but it is a high-theft item that can be returned to the customer service desk for $$. That’s why charities typically don’t give out whole packs of diapers – criminals will get them for free, then “return” them to a store for $$.
 
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Regarding those tax numbers, are you in a state with income tax? Or are those just for federal?
 
27lw said:
However, there is nothing stopping Buffett or anyone else in the megarich category from giving a whole lot of $$ to the poor, to the US government, to any charitable or religious organization. The Bible nor the catechism doesn’t say that the only way to help the poor is by funneling tax money through the government- industrial poverty complex.
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Buffett has given or pledged more than 99% of his wealth to charity. The point is, that most rich people don’t. They keep it, and turn it into dynastic wealth that does nothing more than enrich their descendants. They will give a token amount to charity, but most of the wealth that is generated from society (think shoppers at Walmart enriching Sam Walton) will remain in private hands forever (think Sam Walton’s children and grandchildren, who did nothing to earn it I might add).

Extreme wealth concentration is a bad thing. Government systems that maintain this are sinful.
 
Being in the Great State of Texas, we have no income tax. 😀

So that is just federal. However, I will add that many state tax policies follow federal policy. Like tax exempt interest, special treatment for long term capital gains, and such.

Yes states with income tax would result in a higher percentage of tax paid, but if states allow for special treatment for certain income types, the percentage increase vs, income increase should follow suit.

Pick a state, and I can give you the figures of how these two particular individuals would fair. Although probably not today, since the PPP is about to run out of money and the businesses are scrambling for their piece of the free pie. Keeping my wife and myself sort of busy along with the regular income taxes I am attempting (emphasis on attempting) to get complete.
 
Yeah, that was me who said that.

Sheesh, kinda shocked about that. Just…wow. Sad.
 
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