Tax us more, say wealthy Europeans

[CMatt25]

I am afraid right wing conservatism seems to have seduced many in these political threads.Peace,Carlan

Carlan, when we are asked questions such as how human beings who are economically less fortunate and disadvantaged are hurt by budget cuts, I am afraid you no longer have to be afraid that it seems. BTW I knew exactly what you meant. God bless you Carlan and peace.

 

[rlg94086]

Carlan, when we are asked questions such as how human beings who are economically less fortunate and disadvantaged are hurt by budget cuts, I am afraid you no longer have to be afraid that it seems. BTW I knew exactly what you meant. God bless you Carlan and peace.

Cool. Maybe you should share your decoder ring results and let the rest of us in on it.

 

[ishii]

Carlan, when we are asked questions such as how human beings who are economically less fortunate and disadvantaged are hurt by budget cuts, I am afraid you no longer have to be afraid that it seems. God bless you Carlan and peace.

And when you are asked simple questions, such as “how are the poor hurt by budget cuts”, but can’t answer, it shows that you base your arguments on emotion.

Ishii

 

[jam070406]

Cool. Maybe you should share your decoder ring results and let the rest of us in on it.

I think he meant conservatives hate the poor because they don’t want the government taking all their hard earned money.

 

[CMatt25]

Have you noticed that U.S. taxypayers are no longer able to donate cash to their church or any charity anymore unless they don’t mind losing the tax deduction? (thanks, Obama) Do you really think the government can do a better job of helping people with your taxes than you can when you apply charity directly?

If the rich were to mind losing a tax deduction in order to donate to charity, then I suppose that would speak volumes about their true priorities. And what I believe is government can have a larger role along with faith based groups and private charities than many on this forum think. The latter 2 have had thousands of years. But when they fall short or can not do it all alone, I don’t believe for a nanosecond that Jesus would turn down any help He could get.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I wonder how much of this guy’s statement really relates to most people.

He’s a doctor with, what, about two million in assets. We don’t know how much of that is in his house or what houses cost where he is. We don’t know whether he has a retirement income from anything other than the assets he says he has. So his income is entirely unknown to us.

Let’s say he got massively lucky and it’s all cash and all in CDs or something. Well, that’s going to pay him about $40,000/year, and few would call that “rich” in income unless he has some other source.

Oddly, he seems to have no other person or entity which he considers more deserving that the government. Does he have no children needing help? No spouse? No relative or neighbor in distress? No church? No charities in which he believes? Does he not know of a single poor person? Has he never heard of Haiti?

Wanting to donate money to the government seems like the sort of thing a very isolated individual would turn to with his largesse.

 

[rlg94086]

I think he meant conservatives hate the poor because they don’t want the government taking all their hard earned money.

But, that wouldn’t make sense in regards to Carlan’s response to my post.

 

[jam070406]

Carlan, when we are asked questions such as how human beings who are economically less fortunate and disadvantaged are hurt by budget cuts, I am afraid you no longer have to be afraid that it seems. BTW I knew exactly what you meant. God bless you Carlan and peace.

You could start by saying that what was once meant to be a safety net has turned into an entitlement mentality that has contributed to bankrupting the country and creating larger groups of poor people instead of ending poverty.

 

[Ridgerunner]

If the rich were to mind losing a tax deduction in order to donate to charity, then I suppose that would speak volumes about their true priorities. And what I believe is government can have a larger role along with faith based groups and private charities than many on this forum think. The latter 2 have had thousands of years. But when they fall short or can not do it all alone, I don’t believe for a nanosecond that Jesus would turn down any help He could get.

Of course, if the government taxes more, that leaves less for people to share with other actual individuals or to choose where their largesse goes. Personally, as between building a house for somebody in Haiti or giving money to this government so it can fund abortions at home and abroad, I would choose the first every time. When it comes to taxing people, it really is a “zero sum game”.

 

[rlg94086]

If the rich were to mind losing a tax deduction in order to donate to charity, then I suppose that would speak volumes about their true priorities. And what I believe is government can have a larger role along with faith based groups and private charities than many on this forum think. The latter 2 have had thousands of years. But **when they fall short **or can not do it all alone, I don’t believe for a nanosecond that Jesus would turn down any help He could get.

Just how short have the Europeans fallen? Your OP mentions concerns about the widening gap between the rich and the poor. I guess Europe’s high-tax, large government bureaucracy approach is resulting in this? I feel bad for Europe. I hope they raise the taxes on their rich to cure all of their ills.

 

[rlg94086]

You could start by saying that what was once meant to be a safety net has turned into an entitlement mentality that has contributed to bankrupting the country and creating larger groups of poor people instead of ending poverty.

That’s what the OP seems to indicate. The evil, European fat cats are sitting on all their wealth while the masses struggle.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You could start by saying that what was once meant to be a safety net has turned into an entitlement mentality that has contributed to bankrupting the country and creating larger groups of poor people instead of ending poverty.

Of possibly passing interest. The relationship between (Income from labor + entitlements) and income from property (capital) almost never vary as a percentage of total national income, and when there is a variance, it’s very little. There are reasons why it almost never varies, and “income from labor” portion is maximized as a percentage of the whole at full employment.

But when entitlements shift money to “not working”, it comes from the “income from labor” share, which goes down. When that goes down, the “income from capital” portion goes up as a percentage of the whole, even though it’s from a smaller pie and is thus less in an absolute sense.

Increasing taxes to fund entitlements, then, causes both labor and capital income to decrease, but interestingly, the decrease from capital is less than from labor income. So, the ultimate result of “European-style” taxation is to decrease the value of labor and create a sort of “threadbare aristocracy” of “rich” people that aren’t really all that rich by American standards, but are increasingly so by comparison with people whose income is from labor.

Doesn’t seem like the best model to me.

 

[CMatt25]

And when you are asked simple questions, such as “how are the poor hurt by budget cuts”, but can’t answer, it shows that you base your arguments on emotion.

Ishii

I just assumed you understood the budget includes programs. And I’m not about to list for you all the examples of the hurtful affects. But here’s one.

“after $600 million was cut from the program amid the 2011 budget wrangling in March, the plan to add 350 new federally qualified community clinics was forced to shrink to just 67”

“After 2014, when the Affordable Care Act’s mandatory health insurance and health exchanges are slated to open, such clinics were expected to play a big role in absorbing the influx of Medicaid patients looking for doctors.”

“Simmons and many others worry that funding for community health centers will take harder hits in the near future as the congressional debt reduction “super*committee” convenes.”

“It is important to remember that for every $1 million in funding cuts, health centers lose the ability to serve 8,300 people,”

palmbeachpost.com/money/federal-budget-cuts-hurt-foundcare-health-center-in-1802239.html

 

[jam070406]

Just how short have the Europeans fallen? Your OP mentions concerns about the widening gap between the rich and the poor. I guess Europe’s high-tax, large government bureaucracy approach is resulting in this? I feel bad for Europe. I hope they raise the taxes on their rich to cure all of their ills.

Yes, government will fix everything. Because surely they follow the principles set forth by our Lord in regards to money and the poor. Big government is the model of Christian morality and ethics. Our Lord said the rich will not enter Heaven and has given us big government to regulate that morality and assure that the rich will get to Heaven by taking their riches!

 

[rlg94086]

I just assumed you understood the budget includes programs. And I’m not about to list for you all the examples of the hurtful affects. But here’s one.

“after $600 million was cut from the program amid the 2011 budget wrangling in March, the plan to add 350 new federally qualified community clinics was forced to shrink to just 67”

“After 2014, when the Affordable Care Act’s mandatory health insurance and health exchanges are slated to open, such clinics were expected to play a big role in absorbing the influx of Medicaid patients looking for doctors.”

“Simmons and many others worry that funding for community health centers will take harder hits in the near future as the congressional debt reduction “super*committee” convenes.”

“It is important to remember that for every $1 million in funding cuts, health centers lose the ability to serve 8,300 people,”

palmbeachpost.com/money/federal-budget-cuts-hurt-foundcare-health-center-in-1802239.html

Which part of Europe is Palm Beach in? Is that the French Riviera?

 

[CMatt25]

Which part of Europe is Palm Beach in? Is that the French Riviera?

The point of my OP was to show how rich Europeans are willing to pay even more taxes in contrast to the defenders of the rich in the US who are not wanting the rich in the US to do so. Ishii asked how budget cuts hurt. And I gave him an example of how they hurt the poor when the rich in the US do not want to pay more taxes. The side of the Atlantic ocean doesn’t deter this. BTW the town of Palm Beach and Palm Beach County are not the same.

 

[Carlan]

You could start by saying that what was once meant to be a safety net has turned into an entitlement mentality that has contributed to bankrupting the country and creating larger groups of poor people instead of ending poverty.

You can say that ,but the fact remains the elderly poor and the handicapped poor suffer because many in government are more interested in helping the high-side middlle class , the healthy insurance companies, the privileged and the rich to keep their lot , you know, ‘all their so called corporate welfare’.That is more likely where the real safety net has disappeared to. They have got to get reelected , don’t you know?.
Peace, CArlan

 

[stinkcat_14]

You can say that ,but the fact remains the elderly poor and the handicapped poor suffer because many in government are more interested in helping the high-side middlle class

This is very true. For example, in the US our two biggest welfare programs are Social Security and Medicare. Yet even republicans are too afraid to touch these programs. It has created a class of people who are too lazy to work and prefer free riding to paying their fair share.

 

[rlg94086]

The point of my OP was to show how rich Europeans are willing to pay even more taxes in contrast to the defenders of the rich in the US who are not wanting the rich in the US to do so. Ishii asked how budget cuts hurt. And I gave him an example of how they hurt the poor when the rich in the US do not want to pay more taxes. The side of the Atlantic ocean doesn’t deter this.

Oh…so, you weren’t pointing out that the debt problems and chasm between the rich and the poor are also a problem in Europe? Conservatives in the US are constantly being told by liberals how superior things are in the higher tax areas of the world, and yet those areas use the same class warfare arguments. Interesting.

Don’t get me wrong though. I’m fully in favor of the rich in Europe doing what they deem necessary to solve the problems of their sinking economic systems.

I’m not sure how long they will be able to sustain things with their low birth rates though. That said, Japan is even worse off. I was looking at national debt of the various countries, and the per capita debt is high in most European countries (though only Italy is as high as ours), but Japan’s is nearly $100k per person.

CMatt25:

BTW the town of Palm Beach and Palm Beach County are not the same.

. Yes, I know. Did I state otherwise? Does it matter?

 

[St_Francis]

Well, St Francis, since they do not seem to mind paying their fair share of legal taxes and would not oppose giving more to a struggling economy when necessary, I would surmise they are most generous with their charity giving , at least strive to give 10% to charity as most of us lower middle income people do.
Peace, Carlan

Do you have evidence supporting this? Because it seems that Europeans are so secure with their social safety nets that even the highest per capita giving nation is at less than half the US level.

And I think someone else mentioned the lower rate of giving among Americans who rely more on the government’s taking care of these things… (funny that liberals have higher income levels than conservatives do…)