Tax us more, say wealthy Europeans

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jomoco said:
Are you insinuating that tea partiers believe we are not at war now?
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I’m insinuating that the supposed “mantra” you mentioned doesn’t mention war. I’m also clearly stating, not insinuating, that the $1.26 Trillion spent on both wars did not double our National Debt.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Tea Party and Neocons. Sometimes its just like…wow…
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jomoco said:
Are you insinuating that tea partiers believe we are not at war now?

That our soldiers aren’t dying?

That their whole platform does not pertain to our current wars and troops abroad?

The facts are that we are at war right now. But tea partiers don’t seem to think that should change their mantra of lower taxes and regulations right now.

This firmly ties the tea party to the neo-conservatives of 03, who set the American precedent of lowering taxes during war time as a means of paying for them.

A toxic blend of beliefs whose outcome is an objective doubling of our natbl debt since it was enacted in 03.

jomoco
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😃
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m insinuating that the supposed “mantra” you mentioned doesn’t mention war. I’m also clearly stating, not insinuating, that the $1.26 Trillion spent on both wars did not double our National Debt.
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That 1.26 trillion exceeds our nation’s entire natnl debt just 30 years ago when reagan took office.

It is far from a trivial sum.

And how much death does it represent in the 21st century?

jomoco
 
jomoco said:
That 1.26 trillion exceeds our nation’s entire natnl debt just 30 years ago when reagan took office.

It is far from a trivial sum.

And how much death does it represent in the 21st century?

jomoco
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Who said it was trivial? I just said it was less than 1/7 of the increase to the debt since 2001. Yet, it is seems to be your main focus 🤷

I’m not sure how Reagan comes into the discussion. I’m relatively certain that he was not involved in any of the policy decisions between 2001 and now…

Regarding death count, that is a different matter - totally unrelated to the fiscal question.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Possibly 3/4 here support “former or current” (???) Republican candidates for President. That does not mean that 3/4 (or a “vast majority” for that matter) are pressing for cuts in the current federal income tax rates. I suspect the resistance many (probably the majority of Americans) have to INCREASES in taxes is motivated not simply because of the rates themselves, but as seen in combination with other taxes and overspending by government entities at all levels.
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If you go back, I gave examples of Republican Party politicians supporting tax cuts. Then what I said was, “the Republican Party, the party supported by the vast majority of members of this forum”. You asked for a poll to show that and I gave you one. 🤷 Btw not sure what the ??? were for but “former” includes Pawlenty who was in the poll.
 
CMatt25 said:
If you go back, I gave examples of Republican Party politicians supporting tax cuts. Then what I said was, “the Republican Party, the party supported by the vast majority of members of this forum”. You asked for a poll to show that and I gave you one. 🤷 Btw not sure what the ??? were for but “former” includes Pawlenty who was in the poll.
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Actually, you didn’t give me a poll. You just said there was one. But you have no idea how many people showed support on that or any other poll supported Republicans for tax cuts, for reduced spending, because they are prolife or for any other reason. Support for any particular Republican does not automatically translate into a policy position to reduce taxes. I, for one, will definitely vote against Obama for a number of reasons; his support of abortion being the primary one. That means I must vote Republican in the 2012 election. Tax reduction is not one of my priorities at all. I would just as soon they remain where they are, notwithstanding that nobody, including me, enjoys paying taxes. But I also have a problem with the government’s free use of my and my childrens’ “governmental credit card”, racking up debts for me and them when I, like a lot of Americans, are trying to reduce our own debts.
 
Are they too stupid to just give away their money by themselves, or what…? 🤷
 
exoflare said:
Are they too stupid to just give away their money by themselves, or what…? 🤷
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Perhaps they merely acknowledge that most wealthy people are less willing to contribute teir own money, and so see taxation as the solution. Kind of like Warren Buffet. Obviously he;s not saying, “take away my money, otherwise I’ll just spend it on myself.” He’s already leaving it all to charity in his will I believe. He is rather referring to wealthy people in general. Same here most likely
 
exoflare said:
Are they too stupid to just give away their money by themselves, or what…? 🤷
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Well, can you willingly pay more in taxes? I don’t know, but I don’t think so, in which case it makes perfect sense to say that you want to pay more in taxes. Giving to charity etc., is not equivalent to paying taxes.
 
Persuader said:
Well, can you willingly pay more in taxes? I don’t know, but I don’t think so, in which case it makes perfect sense to say that you want to pay more in taxes. Giving to charity etc., is not equivalent to paying taxes.
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Yes, you can pay extra in taxes. That said, giving to charity is a better use of your funds. Even Warren “the rich should pay more taxes” Buffett agrees with that.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Actually, you didn’t give me a poll. You just said there was one. But you have no idea how many people showed support on that or any other poll supported Republicans for tax cuts, for reduced spending, because they are prolife or for any other reason. Support for any particular Republican does not automatically translate into a policy position to reduce taxes. I, for one, will definitely vote against Obama for a number of reasons; his support of abortion being the primary one. That means I must vote Republican in the 2012 election. Tax reduction is not one of my priorities at all. I would just as soon they remain where they are, notwithstanding that nobody, including me, enjoys paying taxes. But I also have a problem with the government’s free use of my and my childrens’ “governmental credit card”, racking up debts for me and them when I, like a lot of Americans, are trying to reduce our own debts.
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This is why I hate American politics. When you vote based on a moral level you help feed the agenda of the ratty globalists who send jobs overseas…

When you vote on a more patriotic level, you feed the more morally corrupt agenda.

Why not just increase taxes on corporations who export their labor overseas according to what percentage of their workforce is based outside the country. They’d then be forced to either:
  • Raise their prices, in which they’d be replaced by the competition
  • Move away altogether, in which we’d ask them not to let the door hit them from behind
    -or-
  • Employ americans, which might increase prices slightly, but would be a much more patriotic thing to do.
One thing the Europeans and Americans should avoid is increasing taxes on the wealthy who may have earned their wealth through honest means. Instead we should tax the un-patriotic globalists, who are the cause of this whole mess while pushing it off as some sort of artificial war of the “classes”.
 
CMatt25 said:
Oh my goodness. Yes I gave you a link to one.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8337123&postcount=174

Regarding your primary reason, no surprise there to me. Peace.
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Perhaps I misunderstood you. This poll showed who all planned to vote Republican versus who planned to vote for Obama. As I mentioned before, that doesn’t tell us anything about their reasons for doing what they planned to do. There is no particular reason to believe wanting tax reductions was the motivating factor for any of them.
 
TEPO said:
This is why I hate American politics. When you vote based on a moral level you help feed the agenda of the ratty globalists who send jobs overseas…

When you vote on a more patriotic level, you feed the more morally corrupt agenda.

Why not just increase taxes on corporations who export their labor overseas according to what percentage of their workforce is based outside the country. They’d then be forced to either:
  • Raise their prices, in which they’d be replaced by the competition
  • Move away altogether, in which we’d ask them not to let the door hit them from behind
    -or-
  • Employ americans, which might increase prices slightly, but would be a much more patriotic thing to do.
One thing the Europeans and Americans should avoid is increasing taxes on the wealthy who may have earned their wealth through honest means. Instead we should tax the un-patriotic globalists, who are the cause of this whole mess while pushing it off as some sort of artificial war of the “classes”.
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I don’t know why voting based on moral principles would aid globalists, necessarily, but I understand that’s your position.

The job-saving measures you mention could be good ideas or bad ones. I don’t really know. But what I do know is that government deficits have perhaps a greater influence on trade imbalances, and thus net job losses than anything else.

Foreign competitors don’t get American dollars just to put them in a jar somewhere. They’re just worthless paper (or electronic impulses) in that event. If they didn’t have American debt to buy, they would be forced to buy American goods and services or productive assets, or lose the value they gained.

I have never seen a persuasive case made for the utility of increasing taxes on high earners. It would be only a drop in the bucket, deficit-wise, and at what cost?
 
TEPO said:
This is why I hate American politics. When you vote based on a moral level you help feed the agenda of the ratty globalists who send jobs overseas…

When you vote on a more patriotic level, you feed the more morally corrupt agenda.

Why not just increase taxes on corporations who export their labor overseas according to what percentage of their workforce is based outside the country. They’d then be forced to either:
  • Raise their prices, in which they’d be replaced by the competition
  • Move away altogether, in which we’d ask them not to let the door hit them from behind
    -or-
  • Employ americans, which might increase prices slightly, but would be a much more patriotic thing to do.
One thing the Europeans and Americans should avoid is increasing taxes on the wealthy who may have earned their wealth through honest means. Instead we should tax the un-patriotic globalists, who are the cause of this whole mess while pushing it off as some sort of artificial war of the “classes”.
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Something has to be done about the unions in this country and the stranglehold they have on American businesses.
This is the reason a lot of corporations export their labor overseas. Why would corporations pay so much more for an American union worker when the same worker overseas is paid much less?
 
livnlern said:
Something has to be done about the unions in this country and the stranglehold they have on American businesses.
This is the reason a lot of corporations export their labor overseas. Why would corporations pay so much more for an American union worker when the same worker overseas is paid much less?
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With or without unions, corporations would have exported jobs overseas regardless. Until the civilized economies drop down to the levels of those where the work is being sent, we cannot expect this to end. Surely we shouldn’t expect all laborers to take pay cuts to match the costs of their competing labor workers in the East should we…? Therefore, Unions whether good or not are basically just being used as the scapegoat in the big picture. The real problem today is a huge lack of patriotism.

The globalist agenda seems to work towards equalizing the world economies, whether this is intentional or coincidental I cannot say for sure. One thing I do know is that it is a very unpatriotic thing for corporations to do… Putting profits over their fellow countrymen.

Wealthy Europeans who welcome the idea of increasing their taxes are only playing into the globalization game. It’s better for their pocket-books to get ALL the wealthy people to pay the taxes than just those who export labor… They’re fabricating a kind of “class-war” for some reason. I wonder who these wealthy Europeans are and what kind of corporations they’re involved in… I wonder if they’re involved in the exportation of jobs into third world countries themselves. :hmmm:
 
Ridgerunner said:
I don’t know why voting based on moral principles would aid globalists, necessarily, but I understand that’s your position.

The job-saving measures you mention could be good ideas or bad ones. I don’t really know. But what I do know is that government deficits have perhaps a greater influence on trade imbalances, and thus net job losses than anything else.

Foreign competitors don’t get American dollars just to put them in a jar somewhere. They’re just worthless paper (or electronic impulses) in that event. If they didn’t have American debt to buy, they would be forced to buy American goods and services or productive assets, or lose the value they gained.

I have never seen a persuasive case made for the utility of increasing taxes on high earners. It would be only a drop in the bucket, deficit-wise, and at what cost?
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But it sounds like you’re talking more about global “trade” as opposed to American based companies who outsource their “employees”. I have no problem with trade as long as Americans are allowed to take part in it.

What I meant was companies like Ford Motor, Nike, Nordstrom, Zenith, etc… (see link for complete list) cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

These are million and billion dollar corporations who outsource much of their work. What if we were to increase taxes on these, and other similar companies by a percentage of how much of their workforce is being outsourced by their total gross income.

Sure their prices would rise a bit, but not enough to break them down completely, because the American job base would increase by the millions… The unemployment rate would drop because these companies would surely hire Americans to avoid paying the higher taxes. Either that or they would move their company out of the country completely in which they would just be replaced and boycotted by good patriotic Americans.

Honestly, how long will we continue down this road before we do something about it.
After all, it’s clear that both the Democrats and Republicans are inspired by a “global” economy since Clinton and Bush II both backed it… We’re being played by a two party system that controls us and keeps us busy with wedge issues.
 
By the way, Warren Buffett, from the OP’s original article who claims that he actually wants to be taxed along with all the rest of the “wealthy”, owns Burlington northern railroad, one of the major outsorcerers on the list. cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

I wonder if he’d be okay with paying higher taxes while other more patriotic wealthy people did’nt have to…? Would he still be okay with that…?
 
TEPO said:
But it sounds like you’re talking more about global “trade” as opposed to American based companies who outsource their “employees”. I have no problem with trade as long as Americans are allowed to take part in it.

What I meant was companies like Ford Motor, Nike, Nordstrom, Zenith, etc… (see link for complete list) cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/popups/exporting.america/content.html

These are million and billion dollar corporations who outsource much of their work. What if we were to increase taxes on these, and other similar companies by a percentage of how much of their workforce is being outsourced by their total gross income.

Sure their prices would rise a bit, but not enough to break them down completely, because the American job base would increase by the millions… The unemployment rate would drop because these companies would surely hire Americans to avoid paying the higher taxes. Either that or they would move their company out of the country completely in which they would just be replaced and boycotted by good patriotic Americans.

Honestly, how long will we continue down this road before we do something about it.
After all, it’s clear that both the Democrats and Republicans are inspired by a “global” economy since Clinton and Bush II both backed it… We’re being played by a two party system that controls us and keeps us busy with wedge issues.
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You might very well be right in what you say. I’m just saying I don’t know how we could possibly know it while providing foreigners with debt instruments so they don’t have to buy American goods and services with the dollars they have.

It might not affect all companies that outsource jobs, but it would surely affect many. Let’s say, for example, that China decided that, since it had no other reasonable uses for dollars, it would buy Caterpillar equipment with them. It would then not matter so much to Caterpillar to have, say, factories in China because, from Caterpillar’s perspective, the market would be good whether American wages increased the price of its products or not.

Would it then choose to deal with the uncertain (and corrupt) political climate in China in order to save labor money when it really didn’t have to? I have my doubts. And if all dollars returned in form other than purchase of treasuries, would not people here whose products were bought by Chinese and who use Caterpillar equipment be more inclined to buy a dozer built here, where quality control is better, even if it cost a bit more?

We’re giving companies more reason to offshore than simply having higher wages, and the deficits loom large among those reasons.
 
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