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God is.

He’s the great I AM

I’m not heckling you, Fauken, but I feel that these individuals I’m speaking with don’t even understand the most basic of Catholic doctrine of divinity.

Are we really at this point? Catholics don’t even know genuine doctrine about the Trinity?
 
The alien invasion occurred when half of these people on this thread were catechized!
 
God is.

He’s the great I AM

I’m not heckling you, Fauken, but I feel that these individuals I’m speaking with don’t even understand the most basic of Catholic doctrine of divinity.

Are we really at this point? Catholics don’t even know genuine doctrine about the Trinity?
To be fair, it’s arguably the most complex doctrine in all of Christianity.
 
If we are using the Incarnation argument, we can use it both ways.

Just as God became human, he is also (eternally) Love (St. John says so), and Love can be understood as a virtue/concept. So, can we render dulia to virtues/concepts?

Just as God is in union with the Saints, all the virtues come directly from Him, as you said. So, can we render dulia to virtues/concepts?
WE 👏 WORSHIP 👏 THREE 👏 PEOPLE 👏 IN 👏 ONE 👏 BEING…

… PEOPLE! PERSONS!!!

We don’t worship states of mind, virtues, or character states! If you worship such YOU ARE AN IDOLATOR! YOU AREN’T A CHRISTIAN, LET ALONE A CATHOLIC!

Is that clear enough?
 
I asked you to stop being aggressive.

I understand that. I only said:

You say we can venerate persons because they are in union with God.

Virtues also are in union with God. They come from Him. Why can’t we venerate virtues?

I didn’t deny the Trinity. I don’t even venerate virtues, it’s just an hypotetical question.

No need to call me deist or idolator in caps.
 
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Saints aren’t God either. And remember we are not talking about latria but about dulia.
 
Saints aren’t God either. And remember we are not talking about latria but about dulia.
Even if you want to focus on the Saints, the Saints are revered because of their holiness: because of their conformity with God, “He increases and I decrease”.

Pagans can be happy. Pagans can have “life”. Pagans can experience love. It does not take Christianity to be happy, hollow though it may be. We do not revere St. Albert Magnus because he is Albert Magnus: that is what venerating the virtues would be. We revere him because he is St. Albert Magnus.
 
Okay, now I understand your point. Thanks for not being aggressive like the other poster.
 
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I apologize for my aggression.

As one Albert the Great to another I’m sure you can understand.

Mea culpa!

😔
 
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I think this is when their videos work – when they confirm a viewer’s beliefs
This is what struck me cold in Scott Eric Alt’s essay “Listen to the Demons.” Marshall is listening to what the demons are saying while a priest performs an exorcism: We hate the Rosary; the Dutch bishops are heretics; communion in the hand pleases Judas; Hans Kung is one of ours; more Catholics should follow Archbishop Lefebvre; listen to Fatima; Humanae Vitae is decisive. His takeaway message is not that these are all lies but "Why, this is just what we Traditionalists have been saying! This whole thing has the ring of complete legitimacy.”

When our eternal foe is whispering sweet nothings in our ears that reinforce our own beliefs about the world and confirm our worst fears, should that not give us pause? The Gospel message doesn’t tell us what we want to hear, it challenges us by telling us what we need to hear. When the rich young man approaches Jesus and asks him what good deed must he do to have eternal life–what is it he lacks that he doesn’t already have–Jesus doesn’t tell him there is nothing more he needs to do, but to sell everything he possesses and give it to the poor and come follow him. Jesus didn’t become incarnate and die for our sins to confirm us in our own beliefs.

How easy it is to let our beliefs go unchallenged, to seek out others who see the world as we do, and to not stop and question whether we’re not seeing the whole picture when our purview is limited to yes-men . . .
 
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Apologies accepted.
At least we both love scholasticism 🤣

Peace in Christ.
 
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There is more spin in this thread than on a 1970s disco ball…
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Blaise Pascal once said, “Truth is so obscure in these times, and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it” (Pensées, Sec. XIV). Demons have no love for the truth. It’s utter folly to sift through their words for grains of truth that might happen to be present when demons don’t distinguish truth from falsehood. Whatever truth they may utter is in the service of deceit.

There’s a real danger in making idols of men when much faith is placed in what they say. Whether it be experts or media personalities or politicians, the respect and attention they are given can turn to devotion. And I worry of the power they have to steer their followers adrift in both words and actions. I’ve seen it happen so many times in the past six to eight years, including within Catholic circles. Social media give people the power to spread error and amplify voices once relegated to the fringe of society and influence countless others in an instant, and then, soon enough, what was once disdained, dismissed, or ignored becomes valued, accepted, or exalted. Greater is the threat when it influences a person many respect and trust. We risk leading ourselves and others astray when we fail to take care in whose voices and ideas we heed and share.
 
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To the exorcist (and those in the room) those can be observed and Our Lady’s humility can be found in Scripture “For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness” Luke 1:48
Are you willing to listen and believe to what demons had to say? The Rite expressly forbids questions of curiosity. Precisely because he is master of lies.
 
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gracepoole:
, I’d forgotten about that…
Forgotten what now?
Marshall used to have a video up about a vision of the Blessed Mother he experienced. It is no longer available but you can read about it here:

 
You say we can venerate persons because they are in union with God.

Virtues also are in union with God. They come from Him. Why can’t we venerate virtues?
Saints aren’t God either. And remember we are not talking about latria but about dulia.
I think quite simply, the answer is that we don’t form relationships with abstract things. We have them with persons, divine or creaturely. Dulia offered to an abstract concept makes about as much sense as romancing the wind or dating ‘justice’. 🙃
 
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