Teenage girls watching young gay men put on makeup. Is this harmful?

[StudentMI]

Scripture is inspired by God. The problem is with your modern egalitarian notions, not the Bible.

Amen. We need to accept Scripture as it is, not as we wish it to be.

 

[Pattylt]

There is a long history of teen girls liking “slash”, which is stories consisting of young and somewhat effeminate guys in romantic relationships.

The psychological theory is that this is a way for shy,awkward girls to explore romantic relationships, but at a very safe remove.

Prolly this is an extension of that.

Sorry, I’m late to the party!

Do you think this is why the male K Pop bands are attracting so many young girls, too? They are very effeminate and “cute” but not handsome…in a certain way. From what you said, it seems it extends into this arena, too. They are safe, distant, not accessible to an average girl…and they draw huge numbers!

 

[Thorolfr]

Serious display of wealth and status involved with that particular earring seeing as a rare one-of-a-kind pearl is involved. With some things, it all depends on the mindset and purpose.

What about all the men nowadays who wear earrings? Is that acceptable for a man in your opinion? I first started putting an earring in my left ear in 1986 when it was not very common for men, especially for straight men. Now, I see young guys with big earrings in both ears.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I think so.

A couple of my cousins were really into writing slash fanfiction and they were the awkward nerdy fan girl types.

They both settled down into (heterosexual) marriages and children, etc, but slash was their jam for awhile.

 

[Lea101]

In the case of people cohabitating, if you would say anything, it would quickly degenerate into a fusillade of “we love each other, this is modern times, everybody does this, how dare you judge me?”

“that’s an interesting point of view — in today’s world, people usually think of him as the apotheosis of evil, let’s talk about this, tell me more”.

Aren’t you afraid that you would go soft and end up liking Hitler too?

Jokes aside, tbh I’m surprised you would have more patience with a Nazi than the average American! I can’t speak for your experience regarding the latter (and for the former, given my race, it’s safer for me to literally get up quietly and leave).

All of my close friends aren’t Catholic and they are all in favour of living together/sex/everything basically. I know if I were to casually ask them in the same level of respect as you would a Nazi, they wouldn’t freak out! However if I were to immediately start accusing them of sin, I would get that reaction.

But I don’t advocate this for youngsters who are still being formed.

I certainly wouldn’t advocate it, but I don’t think I would forbid it. Partly because I think it can veer into uncharitable/bigoted behaviour, but also partly because I think it’s easier for them to antagonise you. It’s good that you won’t do that tbh.

Teenagers can be really stupid about their political views and such, but they’re more perceptive than expected. If your teenager is friends with people outside the faith, with different crosses and such, the best thing to do is to have an open relationship (I.e. Be willing to “debate” with your son so he understands why we believe in X, instead of giving dumbed down explanations that his friends can “blow apart”)

 

[pearleaf]

So, engaging in this conversation has convinced me of two things:

1. Modern conceptions of masculinity (and femininity for that matter) are rather one-dimensional and arbitrary.
2. I need to invest in some eyeliner and black nail polish.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

In the case of people cohabitating, if you would say anything, it would quickly degenerate into a fusillade of “we love each other, this is modern times, everybody does this, how dare you judge me?”

“that’s an interesting point of view — in today’s world, people usually think of him as the apotheosis of evil, let’s talk about this, tell me more”.

Aren’t you afraid that you would go soft and end up liking Hitler too?

Jokes aside, tbh I’m surprised you would have more patience with a Nazi than the average American! I can’t speak for your experience regarding the latter (and for the former, given my race, it’s safer for me to literally get up quietly and leave).

The short answer, without wishing to call into doubt or deny the commonly held narrative of the Holocaust, is that I am a bit more tolerant of revisionist history, than I am of revisionist moral theology that calls into doubt or denies the clear teaching of the magisterium. I have studied quite a bit of history, two degrees’ worth (there have been more diligent students in the world), and I can tell you that it is the historian’s task to (a) find out what happened and (b) interpret it and put it into context. Much of WWII revisionist history starts with the proposition “the Nazis weren’t so bad” and works backward from there. That bias soon comes out.

All of my close friends aren’t Catholic and they are all in favour of living together/sex/everything basically. I know if I were to casually ask them in the same level of respect as you would a Nazi, they wouldn’t freak out! However if I were to immediately start accusing them of sin, I would get that reaction.

Their answers would be precisely as I described above, minus the “you’re judging me!” factor. We all know precisely why people “shack up” before marriage — it’s practical, it’s nice to be able to be with each other all the time, it’s good to get any problems out of the way, and to determine their compatibility without getting into something they can’t get out of. All well and good, it’s also nice to be financially solvent, to have a comfortable lifestyle, and even to be able to afford luxuries, but you can’t steal, embezzle funds, or take kickbacks to make that happen. The end does not justify the means.

Teenagers can be really stupid about their political views and such, but they’re more perceptive than expected. If your teenager is friends with people outside the faith, with different crosses and such, the best thing to do is to have an open relationship (I.e. Be willing to “debate” with your son so he understands why we believe in X, instead of giving dumbed down explanations that his friends can “blow apart”)

We do precisely that. The religion-and-philosophy module of our homeschooling is a pretty lively place. We do more than just read catechism.

 

[pearleaf]

The other problem is that men who aren’t traditionally masculine also tend to have other psychological issues such as narcissism and histrionic disorders that can negatively affect the well being of those around them. Unfortunately, it seems that belonging to the LGBTyadayada group allows one to act like a truly awful person without reprocussion.

Odd, in my experience, members of the GSRM community I know have been rather pleasant and personable. It is religious people that have made me ashamed to call myself a Christian in any sense of the word by their behavior.

 

[Elizabeth3]

I think it is naive to think there is not a “gay or gender” type of agenda at play here. Many times in these discussions there is the denial of an agenda or a request to someone to prove there is one by naming a spokesperson or an organization that promotes it. The largest pusher of an agenda to change society comes from the gender theory and queer studies that are part of almost every university curriculum. It is here that the ideas of gender fluidity and the denial of a sexual binary are both found and advanced. The Church recognizes educational institutions as a source of these ideologies and has written a document to provide guidance to Catholic educators and parents.

I also think it is naive of some to think that these youtube gay men makeup tutorials have no other agenda than to teach makeup tips and tricks. Their existence is the societal product of the gender and queer studies that have been taught for at least 50 years. Someone above mentioned how these discussions, on a Catholic forum no less, is like looking in a funhouse mirror. I agree. The influence of these studies is apparent. Those who say it’s no big deal for teen girls to watch these videos, that makeup on men isn’t a sin etc, aren’t looking deeper than the surface of the issue. Makeup tips may be and are innocuous but the subtle psychological and philosophical ideas that can penetrate minds and influence our understanding may not be innocuous to the teen girl’s developing understanding of herself as made female which is good and distinct from being made male.

Some people seem to conflate non-discrimination and tolerance of those with ssa or trans tendencies with the necessity to take part in these cultural changes that implicitly affirm and support these lifestyles. While we should teach our teen daughters to have love and not hate for those who are ssa, we should also teach them that love and acceptance does not mean going so far as accepting the influence that the gender and queer studies/theories have in changing the culture. These youtube videos are part of that influence that does not seek acceptance of the person as someone made in the image of God but rather seeks acceptance and affirmation of the redefinition of our understanding of “male and female He made them.”

Another example of the influence of these gender studies coming from the university and the attempt to erase male and female altogether is the recent tweet put out by CNN as follows:

Individuals with a cervix are now recommended to start cervical cancers screening at 25 and continue through age 65, with HPV testing every five years as the preferred method of testing, according to a new guideline released by the American Cancer Society https://cnn.it/2XdboNl

How dehumanizing it is to women to not refer to them as such but instead reduce them to a body part - “individuals with a cervix.”

To be continued…

 

[Elizabeth3]

As to the historicity of men wearing makeup and it just being a cultural thing, never was the theory behind the practice coming from a place that sought to deny the difference between being a man or being a woman or an acceptance of homosexual lifestyles as normal and good. Today’s evolving acceptance seeks to normalize for men what in our culture for a long time has been customary for women. It’s not a celebration of releasing men and women from a too narrow definition of the sexes that keeps them from expressing more fully who they are as made male and female but it is rather a desire to promote gender neutrality and/or fluidity. In cultures where both men and women wore make-up, the practice originated primarily from a mix of religious rituals and practicality such as protection from the sun and sand in desert regions. It did not originate from a desire to blur the lines between male and female as we see today. The issue isn’t whether makeup is or isn’t sinful for men to wear so much as the disordered impetus that is driving the cultural change.

For these reasons, I have and will continue to steer (not forbid) my three daughters away from viewing these types of videos by being culturally aware of them and open to discussing them.

I’m not teaching them to hate those who are ssa or trans but at the same time, I do teach them that we should always use prudence in light of our faith as to what we ought and ought not to do in participating in the secular culture. There is a difference between unjust discrimination and discrimination arising from theological, psychological and philosophical differences in which we discern that some content is best not to be viewed or indulged in. The former is rejected by the Church the latter is required by Her in having a properly formed conscience.

The following is a good document that the Church urges all Catholic educators, parents, priests and bishops to read regarding gender theory in education. Paragraph 35 speaks to me as a mother about my duty in educating my daughters to have a correctly formed understanding of themselves as female and distinct from being a male.

http://www.educatio.va/content/dam/cec/Documenti/19_0997_INGLESE.pdf

 

[DeniseNY]

There is no spokesperson per se, but I’ve not known any LGBT people whose beliefs have surprised me; their beliefs follow the same agenda, one whose worst ramifications appear in schools in the form of indoctrinating children as young as kindergarteners in gay culture and sex education, and in human rights commissions in the form of harassing business owners or undermining the rights of religious people.

Nevermind

12345

 

[Freddy]

How close of a friend could you be with that person? Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

And if it’s your son…?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

How close of a friend could you be with that person? Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

And if it’s your son…?

Love him unconditionally, condemn his actions absolutely, warn him of the danger to his soul (and, in the case of theft, even the danger to his continued liberty).

A lot of more traditional, conservative families think the thing to do, when one of their children falls into a reprobate lifestyle, especially one involving a lifestyle incompatible with Christian sexual morality, is to disown them. Our family is not that kind of family.

 

[Thorolfr]

Freddy:

HomeschoolDad:

How close of a friend could you be with that person? Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

And if it’s your son…?

Love him unconditionally, condemn his actions absolutely, warn him of the danger to his soul (and, in the case of theft, even the danger to his continued liberty).

A lot of more traditional, conservative families think the thing to do, when one of their children falls into a reprobate lifestyle, especially one involving a lifestyle incompatible with Christian sexual morality, is to disown them. Our family is not that kind of family.

So, what should parents do if their son turns out to be gay and he wants to bring his significant other with him to Thanksgiving dinner or for Christmas? Should they welcome this boyfriend/partner or tell their son that he can’t come with him? I know that when many gay men are told that their significant other isn’t welcome in their parents’ home, they just stop visiting their parents.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Freddy:

How close of a friend could you be with that person? Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

And if it’s your son…?

Love him unconditionally, condemn his actions absolutely, warn him of the danger to his soul (and, in the case of theft, even the danger to his continued liberty).

A lot of more traditional, conservative families think the thing to do, when one of their children falls into a reprobate lifestyle, especially one involving a lifestyle incompatible with Christian sexual morality, is to disown them. Our family is not that kind of family.

So, what should parents do if their son turns out to be gay and he wants to bring his significant other with him to Thanksgiving dinner or for Christmas? Should they welcome this boyfriend/partner or tell their son that he can’t come with him? I know that when many gay men are told that their significant others aren’t welcome in their parents’ home, they just stop visiting their parents.

God forbid this would ever happen, but if it did, both of them would be perfectly welcome, and we would have dinner, exchange gifts (yes, I’d get his paramour a gift), enjoy pleasant company, and go to Mass. Sleeping arrangements would have to be separate — if that weren’t acceptable, there are always hotels. (Incidentally, the same would hold true if they were an unmarried heterosexual couple.)

I’m not nearly the ogre I may come across as being sometimes. I always say this, but as traditionalist, conservative, orthodox Catholics go, I’m actually very liberal. I can’t speak for my son’s mother (we’re not together), but she is pretty tolerant as well.

 

[Lea101]

is that I am a bit more tolerant of revisionist history, than I am of revisionist moral theology

To clarify my example, adoring Hitler isn’t the same as ‘Hitler wasn’t so bad’ (although both are very awful takes, before anyone jumps on me). The former has nothing to do with revisionist history, but rather revisionist theology where they try to argue what he didn’t wasn’t sinful/it had to be done/Jews really needed to be killed etc.

Of course both usually go hand in hand. One will argue that he didn’t do allll of what we accuse him, but for the ones that can be easily proven, it’s not that bad.

Will never understand these nuts of the West