Teenage girls watching young gay men put on makeup. Is this harmful?

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

No, it is an aberration, an imperfection and deviation from nature. It doesn’t make someone a bad person, but it is an inclination towards sexual activity that Scripture tells us is an abomination. (Conceded, heterosexuals can commit those acts with each other too. They’re still abominations.)

This is the point when the discussion becomes futile. Of course I respect your opinion concerning the scripture, but I don’t share it. What you define as aberration is perfectly normal and natural in biology, and because the scripture is not a science handbook, there is no possible common ground. And I stick with biology.

I am assuming that you are a faithful, orthodox Catholic who adheres to the teaching magisterium in all things — if I may ask, are you?

Of course you may ask. The answer is: “Nope”. I used to be a believer and when I started to compare the teachings with the physical reality, I realized that they are incompatible. So I had to choose and I chose the reality.

Just a remark. I am not hostile to religion and Catholicism. When the teachings are sensible, I applaud them, and follow them. But when they are not, I stick with reality.

Then our discussion is done. You come at the matter from one perspective, and I come at it from another. Thanks for a civil, courteous exchange. Be well.

 

[Abrosz]

Then our discussion is done.

Yes, it is. Best wishes.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I’m sorry but there is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind a vast disconnect between this forum and the average teenage girl growing up in a public school. Girls are frequently fascinated with attractive gay men and watching them do things together can excite their curiosity. Sure, not all of them, but a pretty substantial portion.

I’m not a teenage girl, but my sense is it’s the same reason they often have crushes on boy band singers they’ll never meet: it’s a safe place to focus hormones they aren’t really ready to deal with yet.

 

[WingedHussar]

Not to mention, that gay guys would never rape a girl…

Wait a second, I thought rape was about power, not sex.

Women like watching gay guys and men like watching lesbians.

I think you may be confusing porn lesbians with real life. In any case, watching porn is loserish.

The fact that we are having this debate is a sign of cultural rot. Putting on makeup as a man is generally effeminate and showcases the sad state of what passes for “masculinity” today.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

The fact that we are having this debate is a sign of cultural rot. Putting on makeup as a man is generally effeminate and showcases the sad state of what passes for “masculinity” today.

It’s true that, outside of a few situations, men wearing makeup is generally seen as effeminate. That’s certainly how I see it as a 30 something guy from the Midwest. But we should still recognize that there’s nothing inherently feminine about it; it’s just cultural conditioning.

 

[anneramones]

Hi, I’m not a teenager anymore, I’m 22 and yes there are these gay / trans makeup youtubers and also gay/trans fashion youtubers that post about bags and other feminine stuff. Personally I don’t watch them. It can be tricky because watching those videos one could get used to men putting on eyeshadow, lipstick and so on, and think it’s normal. Also these channels more or less become personal, it’s not just makeup content, there are also vlogging videos and requested videos so you get to know a lot about the youtuber and there is quite a high possibility he is going to talk about gay pride, gay rights, his trans or gay story etc. People don’t miss any occasion to make gay or trans propaganda. So no, I don’t watch this stuff and if I had a daughter I wouldn’t let her watch either.

 

[Xarto]

It’s very easy to dismiss this as, sure what’s the harm, didn’t men used to wear makeup etc etc. However (outside of the arts) it’s no longer acceptable for men to wear makeup. This is just another attack on society by changing what we perceive as acceptable. In this case (James Charles) it’s promoting the normalisation of transgenderism.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

TK421:

Women like watching gay guys and men like watching lesbians.

This is about body features. Gay often keep themselves in top physical shape, are groomed impeccably and are fashionable so women may see them as attractive. Lesbians, no way.

Ahem… there are some very attractive lesbians in the world. Jodie Foster, Kate McKinnon, and Kristen Stewart come immediately to mind.

 

[gam197]

Ahem… there are some very attractive lesbians in the world. Jodie Foster, Kate McKinnon, and Kristen Stewart come immediately to mind.

There are some . I am thinking Rosie O’Donnell, and Ellen.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Ahem… there are some very attractive lesbians in the world. Jodie Foster, Kate McKinnon, and Kristen Stewart come immediately to mind.

There are some . I am thinking Rosie O’Donnell, and Ellen.

They are not entirely bad-looking women, more an issue of grooming and hairstyle than anything else. And not all gay men are metrosexual fashion plates either. It all depends.

I was smitten with Jodie Foster ever since she first started acting — we’re about the same age. It was not the high point of my day when I learned she was a lesbian. I saw her on a rerun of Celebrity Jeopardy! the other night, very simply attired, makeup so light as to be hardly discernable, looked exquisite. A classic, simple beauty.

 

[gam197]

They are not entirely bad-looking women, more an issue of grooming and hairstyle than anything else. And not all gay men are metrosexual fashion plates either. It all depends.

I was smitten with Jodie Foster ever since she first started acting — we’re about the same age. It was not the high point of my day when I learned she was a lesbian. I saw her on a rerun of Celebrity Jeopardy! the other night, very simply attired, makeup so light as to be hardly discernable, looked exquisite. A classic, simple beauty.

Men really try. Go to Provincetown any day and you will see men strutting their stuff. They got tees on and they are in shape.

Jodie Foster was cute when younger. When I think lesbian, nah more like Rosie., Ellen

 

[WingedHussar]

Mindset and purpose are key. Putting on makeup to “look pretty” is very much a female tendency. Not that there is anything wrong with that if you are woman.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Men really try. Go to Provincetown any day and you will see men strutting their stuff. They got tees on and they are in shape.

Hey, “sun’s out, guns out”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[pearleaf]

This is just another attack on society by changing what we perceive as acceptable. In this case (James Charles) it’s promoting the normalisation of transgenderism.

Society is constantly changing. If makeup was once acceptable for men to wear, it can be so again in the future. Changing perception on such a neutral matter is hardly an “attack” on society.

(As an aside: I thought James Charles was gay, not trans.)

Also, “transgenderism” is unclear. Are you saying there is a philosophy of some sort that … what exactly? It would be much more clear if you were to replace it with “transgender identity” or “transgender people”, if that is what you are talking about that is being normalized by a gay cis-man with a makeup YouTube channel.

Is JoJo’s Bizzare Adventure supporting “transgenderism” because some male characters wear makeup? Is Tuomas Holopainen from Nightwish? James Charles isn’t really my cup of tea, but makeup on men is no more objectively harmful than makeup on women.

Culture changes. It’s fine. It’s not the end of society, or men, or anything like that.

 

[WingedHussar]

One big reason is that when you’re a teenage girl and insecure about your looks, you may be more comfortable watching a young man, who is not your competition in the looks or attracting-straight-men department, than watching a pretty young girl who just demoralizes you because you figure you will never look as good as her in a million years.

Sounds like a job for Mom then.

It can be tricky because watching those videos one could get used to men putting on eyeshadow, lipstick and so on, and think it’s normal. Also these channels more or less become personal, it’s not just makeup content, there are also vlogging videos and requested videos so you get to know a lot about the youtuber and there is quite a high possibility he is going to talk about gay pride, gay rights, his trans or gay story etc. People don’t miss any occasion to make gay or trans propaganda. So no, I don’t watch this stuff and if I had a daughter I wouldn’t let her watch either.

Good wisdom here. May your future sons be strong and your daughters fair.

 

[Lea101]

but darn it, they’re such nice people, best neighbors I’ve got, then if I’m not very strong and resolute in the orthodoxy of the Faith, yes, I’m going to come to think “sodomy couldn’t be too bad, after all, Don and Mike are really great guys!”.

Let’s break it down tbh.

Nothing wrong with thinking they are nice people.

Not being strong in your faith, would be a ‘you-problem’. In the case of a child, it would be the responsibility of the parents to ensure a solid foundation. I grew up with people who slept around etc and I still understood that those things were sinful

Being friends with someone doesn’t mean that you can’t think what they’re doing is wrong.

Same with heterosexual people in invalid, sinful unions. Same with my neighbors who are drug smugglers, racial supremacists (of whatever race), or militant atheists — “but they’re so nice ”. I’ve heard that, on a personal level , Hitler was a pretty nice guy too. My point should be clear.

It’s a pretty disingenuous thing to lump gay people in with racists and Hitler to prove a point.

But that aside, it seems like you’re uncomfortable with your children with truly ‘liking’ anyone outside your faith.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

but darn it, they’re such nice people, best neighbors I’ve got, then if I’m not very strong and resolute in the orthodoxy of the Faith, yes, I’m going to come to think “sodomy couldn’t be too bad, after all, Don and Mike are really great guys!”.

Let’s break it down tbh.

Nothing wrong with thinking they are nice people.

Not being strong in your faith, would be a ‘you-problem’. In the case of a child, it would be the responsibility of the parents to ensure a solid foundation. I grew up with people who slept around etc and I still understood that those things were sinful

Being friends with someone doesn’t mean that you can’t think what they’re doing is wrong.

Actually, there should be a certain cognitive dissonance about being a close friend to someone whose behavior the Catholic Church teaches is mortally sinful. It’s as though there is this barrier, that you can only get so close to this person, and no closer. Let’s flip it around — pretend you have a friend who is a racist, who is simply steadfast that Race X is inferior and to be disliked. Or let’s say this friend takes kickbacks at work and has confided in you that they do this, this is how they afford that nice car and those nice vacations. How close of a friend could you be with that person? Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

HomeschoolDad:

Same with heterosexual people in invalid, sinful unions. Same with my neighbors who are drug smugglers, racial supremacists (of whatever race), or militant atheists — “but they’re so nice ”. I’ve heard that, on a personal level , Hitler was a pretty nice guy too. My point should be clear.

It’s a pretty disingenuous thing to lump gay people in with racists and Hitler to prove a point.

But that aside, it seems like you’re uncomfortable with your children with truly ‘liking’ anyone outside your faith.

See above.

I can “like” people whose lifestyles are as I described above, but again, there’s always going to be this barrier.

 

[Lea101]

Actually, there should be a certain cognitive dissonance about being a close friend to someone whose behavior the Catholic Church teaches is mortally sinful. It’s as though there is this barrier, that you can only get so close to this person, and no closer.

It depends on what this is. You keep lumping them with racists etc and that’s honestly quite an uncharitable thing to do.

Your gay neighbours may be in a sinful relationship but unlike racists or Hitler or a criminal, they aren’t hurting/hating others just because they’re gay.

Because of this simple difference, this barrier/treatment of people would be different in different scenarios.

If you’re telling me you would treat a racist the same way as a gay person, we got a bigger issue here.

Is that friend someone you’d marry? Would you want your child to marry someone like that?

What does marriage got to do with it? Your daughter would marry a gay man?

I can “like” people whose lifestyles are as I described above, but again, there’s always going to be this barrier.

How does this look practically if you more or less implied you wouldn’t be comfortable with your child being close with a gay person? Or by lumping them with racists, criminals and Hitler (who’s both?) Your posts suggest that if she were to like them and think they’re ‘so nice’, she would excuse sin?

I’d hate to be that person, but Jesus loved the hell (literally) out the outcasts of society in a culture where it’s the norm to shun them, so much so that people thought he was wrong/scandalous for doing so. The barrier stops before accepting sin.

Not all of us can do this easily, but your posts are just confusing with regards to where you draw the line, because you say one thing but your elaboration says the other.

 

[Lea101]

Also these channels more or less become personal, it’s not just makeup content, there are also vlogging videos and requested videos so you get to know a lot about the youtuber and there is quite a high possibility he is going to talk about gay pride, gay rights, his trans or gay story etc. People don’t miss any occasion to make gay or trans propaganda

This would be a reasonable concern.

If the child is not old enough to the point she’s unable to understand why her family believes in what they believe in, she would be too young to watch such content. And it would be the parent’s job to filter these videos.

That being said, a parent would be incredibly stupid to immediately say ‘no’ to a gay Youtuber while not caring about the other channels their kids watch if they’re straight. The latter still have questionable content.

 

[pearleaf]

I still question why it’s a good idea to let kids watch that sort of content. A lot of them are very open about their personal lifestyles and can encourage younger people to get in with the wrong crowd.

I don’t have a particular dog in the fight in terms of makeup YouTubers.

“Wrong crowd” is very subjective in this case. I doubt that any of them are teaching kids to be violent to this or that group, for example. In fact, seeing a gay man in the makeup tutorial might teach the kids not to bully or otherwise be horrible to their gay classmates, which I view as a good: less violence.

I do have a dog in the fight when it comes to assumptions of masculinity. A sense of masculinity that is offended or can’t abide by a man wearing cosmetics is laughably fragile, as is a sense of masculinity that seems as rigid as many people make theirs sound. Then again, I was bullied growing up for not being typically masculine. I have straight friends who were also bullied for not being typically masculine. That creates real depression, real psychological harm.

As far as I’m concerned, the “traditional” image of masculinity must be shattered and replaced with a more modern and healthy image for the sake of men of all sexualities.

Aside: I will agree that some policies by YouTube have generally made the platform worse, not better, for some kinds of content.

I refuse to believe Araki is straight, let’s just put it that way.

I do believe he hasn’t said anything about his own sexuality, and is married to a woman, which society generally sees as an assumption of straightness, for better or worse. But I don’t have a problem accepting him on my “team” if you don’t want him.

(That still doesn’t mean anything about “transgenderism”—again, whatever that means.)