Ten Commandments Disallowed in Courthouses

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Anti-God hits just keep on flowing:

The Associated Press
Monday, June 27, 2005; 10:11 AM

A split Supreme Court struck down Ten Commandments displays in courthouses Monday, ruling that two exhibits in Kentucky cross the line between separation of church and state because they promote a religious message.

The 5-4 decision was the first of two seeking to mediate the bitter culture war over religion’s place in public life. In it, the court declined to prohibit all displays in court buildings or on government property. Justices left legal wiggle room, saying that some displays - like their own courtroom frieze - would be permissible if they’re portrayed neutrally in order to honor the nation’s legal history.

But framed copies in two Kentucky courthouses went too far in endorsing religion, the court held.

“The touchstone for our analysis is the principle that the First Amendment mandates government neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion,” Justice David H. Souter wrote for the majority.

“When the government acts with the ostensible and predominant purpose of advancing religion, it violates tha central Establishment clause value of official religious neutrality,” he said.

Souter was joined in his opinion by other members of the liberal bloc - Justices John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer, as well as Reagan appointee Sandra Day O’Connor, who provided the swing vote.
 
I am waiting for the written decision. I want to read it.

It just makes me sad that our history (USA) is being taken from us. This countries LAW was based on the 10 Commandments. Yet, the LAWS have been so watered down now as to no longer mirror the MORAL teaching of the Commandments.

Yet, I am torn in some ways. I don’t want the Koranic LAW posted in public places or followed. So is it just best to not have any public displays of any religious LAWS or MORAL rules. I really don’t know what is best.

IMHO :hmmm: What those of us that are members of the Catholic Church (indeed any of the Christian Churches) need to do is start following the 10 Commandments in our own personal lives. Maybe when we become GOOD examples to others they will want what we have. But, first we need to clean our own houses and then we can show others how it is done.

The fact that someone has placed the Commandments where anyone can read them, does not mean that anyone will read them or follow them. Change of HEARTS needs to be PRAYED for 24/7.
 
If there is a retirement from the Court, I sincerely hope the Republicans grow a backbone and change the senate rules if the left tries to fillibuster Bush’s nominee. If someone does retire, I hope it’s Conner and the Chief Justic. That way we can get a conservative leaning majority on the Court and fix some of this mess.
 
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KathleenElsie:
It just makes me sad that our history (USA) is being taken from us. This countries LAW was based on the 10 Commandments.
Actually, our law is only based on 3 of the 10 (killing, stealing, lying).
Yet, I am torn in some ways. I don’t want the Koranic LAW posted in public places or followed. So is it just best to not have any public displays of any religious LAWS or MORAL rules. I really don’t know what is best.
I agree
What those of us that are members of the Catholic Church (indeed any of the Christian Churches) need to do is start following the 10 Commandments in our own personal lives. Maybe when we become GOOD examples to others they will want what we have. But, first we need to clean our own houses and then we can show others how it is done.
I agree.
The fact that someone has placed the Commandments where anyone can read them, does not mean that anyone will read them or follow them.
Yes, there is absolutely no logical reason to think that criminals hang around courthouses to read the displays. The time, energy, and money used to support such useless things as these displays could be doing some real good.
 
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KathleenElsie:
I am waiting for the written decision. I want to read it.

It just makes me sad that our history (USA) is being taken from us. This countries LAW was based on the 10 Commandments. Yet, the LAWS have been so watered down now as to no longer mirror the MORAL teaching of the Commandments.

Yet, I am torn in some ways. I don’t want the Koranic LAW posted in public places or followed. So is it just best to not have any public displays of any religious LAWS or MORAL rules. I really don’t know what is best.

IMHO :hmmm: What those of us that are members of the Catholic Church (indeed any of the Christian Churches) need to do is start following the 10 Commandments in our own personal lives. Maybe when we become GOOD examples to others they will want what we have. But, first we need to clean our own houses and then we can show others how it is done.

The fact that someone has placed the Commandments where anyone can read them, does not mean that anyone will read them or follow them. Change of HEARTS needs to be PRAYED for 24/7.
What their display means is that a anyone in the court will treated in a just fashion based on the standards of God, not man. Having sinful man distributing justice is a very very bad thing. How’d anyone like to be tried in Sadaam Hussein or Adolph Hitler courts?

The churches need to live the faith AND the government needs to acknowledge God. In fact, it is the same secularlists in the church that want the 10 commandments taken down. Same issue, same problem.

The Koran is not an issue because this country was not founded on it and only an extreme minority practice it. Of course that will changes as we chisel and erase our acknowledgment of God from everywhere.

This decision is typically ludicrous but expected from our high court judges. It shows what small minds they really have.
 
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thestickman:
If there is a retirement from the Court, I sincerely hope the Republicans grow a backbone and change the senate rules if the left tries to fillibuster Bush’s nominee. If someone does retire, I hope it’s Conner and the Chief Justic. That way we can get a conservative leaning majority on the Court and fix some of this mess.
Hope? We need to demand it.
 
They should simply tell the truth:

“Because of that Klu Klux Klan leader and anti-Catholic bigot Hugo Black’s decision in Everson (1947), this honorable court has followed a path which now puts us in a untenable position from which we cannot escape.”
 
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patg:
Actually, our law is only based on 3 of the 10 (killing, stealing, lying).
It isn’t based on those three, it reflects those three.
Yes, there is absolutely no logical reason to think that criminals hang around courthouses to read the displays.
LOL!
The time, energy, and money used to support such useless things as these displays could be doing some real good.
You got it!
 
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Brad:
The Koran is not an issue because this country was not founded on it
True, but this country was not founded on the basis of the Bible either.
 
It is not a matter of the commandments being a foundation of our nation…it is a matter of recognizing the historical importance of the commamdments to this nation and to the founding fathers. Europe is dying and they have quite dilibererately erased any mention of their faith history from the public record. We will see a continuing of Europe’s decline until they wake-up.

Considering the commandments cross many faiths, I cannot see how anyone can conclude that posting them is an endorsement of any religion.
 
Scalila:

**“What distinguishes the rule of law from the dictatorship of a shifting Supreme Court majority is the absolutely indispensable requirement that judicial opinions be grounded in consistently applied principle.” **

Amen.
 
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TPJCatholic:
It is not a matter of the commandments being a foundation of our nation…it is a matter of recognizing the historical importance of the commamdments to this nation and to the founding fathers. Europe is dying and they have quite dilibererately erased any mention of their faith history from the public record. We will see a continuing of Europe’s decline until they wake-up.

Considering the commandments cross many faiths, I cannot see how anyone can conclude that posting them is an endorsement of any religion.
It is about the foundation of the nation, which is why they are so vehemently opposed.
 
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patg:
Yes, there is absolutely no logical reason to think that criminals hang around courthouses to read the displays. The time, energy, and money used to support such useless things as these displays could be doing some real good.
Actually, the time, energy, and money spent opposing them would seem pretty pointless, seeing as their display is so non-effecting.

Seems that those investing that time, energy, and money disagree with you.

Also, how much time, money, and energy is used to support these display? I don’t think it’s too much.
 
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TPJCatholic:
It is not a matter of the commandments being a foundation of our nation
Thank you for that. At least one conservative recognizes that the Decalogue was not a founding document of the United States!
it is a matter of recognizing the historical importance of the commamdments to this nation
As the Court noted, where and how the Commandments are displayed determine whether display is or isn’t appropriate. Your point is well taken.
 
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Richardols:
True, but this country was not founded on the basis of the Bible either.
It sure was the intent of the Founding Fathers that the nation’s legal and educational foundations be based on Christian principles, which is why Congress at one time printed Bibles for the schools and why all the courtrooms require oaths on the Bible.
 
If I can tie this to a larger issue, I’m disappointed with the way the non-establishment clause has been taken historically. I don’t mean this in the sense that I’d like it narrowed to favor Christianity, as many conservatives seem to want (or to Evanglical Protestantism, which is probably more accurate among the wider national population, though obviously not on these forums).

Instead, what I’d like to see is an interpretation that embraces the genuine pluralism present in this country. I have no problem with the 10 commandments in the court room…but I’d also like to see representations of (non-Christian) Roman, Greek, and Mesopotamian traditions that have also part of our judicial heritage. Similarly, I think it’s ridiculous that we have “holiday” parties instead of Christmas parties in schools - I say let the schools celebrate the holidays of its students. Christmas, Chanukka, Ramadan.

The decision to against the 10 commandments I see not so much as a blow against Christianity, but as a lack of faith in the strength of our nationa character. On one side of our coins it says in God we trust"…but the justices seem to also have forgotten the flip side: E. Pluribus Unum.
 
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Richardols:
True, but this country was not founded on the basis of the Bible either.
Being nitpicky in the use of words denies the history of the founding of our country which can be found in documents at the Library of Congress.

Just because a claque of whackos sit on the present Supreme Court cannot deny that the Supreme Court building itself features Moses and the Ten Commandments. This can be found in the courtroom itself and also on the exterior seen at the east side(Second Street)
 
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Lizzie:
Being nitpicky in the use of words denies the history of the founding of our country which can be found in documents at the Library of Congress.
No nitpicking at all. Either the United States was founded on the basis of the Bible or it was not. And, it was not.
Just because a claque of whackos sit on the present Supreme Court cannot deny that the Supreme Court building itself features Moses and the Ten Commandments. This can be found in the courtroom itself and also on the exterior seen at the east side(Second Street)
Whackos? No point in trying to give you a response if your mind is so closed, Liz.
 
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Richardols:
No nitpicking at all. Either the United States was founded on the basis of the Bible or it was not. And, it was not.

Whackos? No point in trying to give you a response if your mind is so closed, Liz.
Do you deny that Moses and the Ten Commandments
are featured at the Supreme Court building?
 
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