Terrorism Is Alien to Islam

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jburgherr,

What’s so easy here? That’s a pretty comprehensive list of Islamic terrorist organizations. Mine was a short list off the top of my head of non-Islamic terrorist organizations.

First off, your list is inaccurate:

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization by any reasonable definition of the word.

Al Aqsa martyrs brigade is a secular organization, not a Muslim one. It is the Fatah military wing, and Fatah is a secular group…they’re currently at war with Hamas to force Hamas to recognize Israel.

So that leaves 22 groups you listed compared with 11. Here’s some more, since we consider these lists to be proof positive:
  1. Babbar Khalsa (India)
  2. Kahane party (Israel)
  3. JDL (USA)
  4. Orange Volunteers (Northern Ireland)
  5. Tamil Tigers (Sri Lanka)
  6. Macheteros (Puerto Rico)
  7. Communist Party of Nepal
  8. Japanese Red Army
  9. Khmer Rouge (Cambodia-killed 3-4 million)
  10. 17 November: Greece
  11. Tupac Amaru: Peru
  12. Aryan Nations
  13. AUC (Colombia)
  14. AAA (Argentina)
  15. ELN (Colombia)
That leaves 26 non-islamic terror groups listed in this thread, and I did it only citing two groups from the whole of Africa.

Sorry, but these ‘statistics’ about who is committing the most terrorism are bunk.
You are forgetting one thing. Most,if not all, of the terror groups you list are committing crimes in their own countries and the level and number of terror activities relatively speaking are low.
The multiple murdering Islamic terror groups are widespread (do not stick to their own countries) and their activities are substantially more brutal, and almost always against innocent civilians.
All in the name of the evil and violent religion of Islam.
 
Hey Jburg,

Look at the top of your wiki article. It says:
This article or section is in need of attention from an expert on the subject.
Did you forget to mention that part?

Not only are these numbers well below what was cited above, they’re not even hard data. An uncited wiki article with a note on the top asking for help is not proof.
 
You are forgetting one thing. Most,if not all, of the terror groups you list are committing crimes in their own countries and the level and number of terror activities relatively speaking are low.
The multiple murdering Islamic terror groups are widespread (do not stick to their own countries) and their activities are substantially more brutal, and almost always against innocent civilians.
All in the name of the evil and violent religion of Islam.
Relatively low? Are you kidding? South American and African terrorism have killed more people than Islamic terrorism ever will already.

You are pulling this point out of thin air. Alleging that these other groups are “less brutal” just shows that you spoke without knowing anything at all about non-Muslim terrorists, which is probably why you didn’t think there were many in the first place.
 
Relatively low? Are you kidding? South American and African terrorism have killed more people than Islamic terrorism ever will already.

You are pulling this point out of thin air. Alleging that these other groups are “less brutal” just shows that you spoke without knowing anything at all about non-Muslim terrorists, which is probably why you didn’t think there were many in the first place.
Well talking about South America, one must remember the existance of atheistic regimes that commit acts of terror against their own people, atheistic rebels who have no regard for human life, as well as pagan guerillas who place little value on human life.

At the end of the day a Christian committing acts of terrorism is not in any way putting into practise the teachings. Its the opposite for Muslims.
 
Well talking about South America, one must remember the existance of atheistic regimes that commit acts of terror against their own people, atheistic rebels who have no regard for human life, as well as pagan guerillas who place little value on human life.
You mean unlike the secular regimes that torture and oppress people in the middle east???

If you look at a country where all people, Muslims included, are treated well (like Singapore), you don’t find terrorism.
At the end of the day a Christian committing acts of terrorism is not in any way putting into practise the teachings. Its the opposite for Muslims.
This is not true. And the only proof people offer are some out of context Quran quotes. In fact, this thread was started by a Muslim to show that Islam condemns terrorism.

At the end of the day, this is about irrational dislike for different religions, just like there was once an irrational hatred for Jews.
 
You mean unlike the secular regimes that torture and oppress people in the middle east???

If you look at a country where all people, Muslims included, are treated well (like Singapore), you don’t find terrorism.

This is not true. And the only proof people offer are some out of context Quran quotes. In fact, this thread was started by a Muslim to show that Islam condemns terrorism.

At the end of the day, this is about irrational dislike for different religions, just like there was once an irrational hatred for Jews.
You keep avoiding saying anything about Islam.
The title thread is a contradiction. Terrorism is not alien to Islam either now or at the beginning. Mohammed converted people by coercion. Basically convert or die. He himself was a killer and openly advocated putting everyone to the sword who disagreed with him. So the founder of Islam himself was a terrorist and Islam has continued to be a religion of violence.
What are your comments on that?
Don’t digress by talking about non-muslim groups.
 
You keep avoiding saying anything about Islam.
Huh? I’ve said it numerous times. Islam does not condone terrorism.
The title thread is a contradiction. Terrorism is not alien to Islam either now or at the beginning. Mohammed converted people by coercion.
You got mixed up. Christian Emperors forced conversion. Muslims did not. You’re backwards on your history there. There has never been a policy of forced conversion in Muslim lands.
What are your comments on that?
Don’t digress by talking about non-muslim groups.
Claiming that x percent of terrorism is done by Muslims requires talking about other groups.
 
You got mixed up. Christian Emperors forced conversion. Muslims did not. You’re backwards on your history there. There has never been a policy of forced conversion in Muslim lands.
Now there isnt a single Historian who would honestly say that Islam was not spread by the sword. Forced conversions have existed in the Muslim faith, and it was largely through force in the early period that it was spread.

As for Christian Emperors it really depends who one is talking about. In Christianity there exist both Saints and Sinners.
 
Now there isnt a single Historian who would honestly say that Islam was not spread by the sword. Forced conversions have existed in the Muslim faith, and it was largely through force in the early period that it was spread.
Okay, find me one historian who documents the forced conversions. Imperial expansion by force, yes, but the subjects were not forced to convert (and they didn’t-there are still millions of non Muslims in the former Muslim imperial lands.)
As for Christian Emperors it really depends who one is talking about. In Christianity there exist both Saints and Sinners.
The policy of forced conversion wherever Christians had a firm hold is uniform. I don’t think you can find a single example of a pre-enlightenment Christian society that did not have a policy of forced conversion.
 
Huh? I’ve said it numerous times. Islam does not condone terrorism.

You got mixed up. Christian Emperors forced conversion. Muslims did not. You’re backwards on your history there. There has never been a policy of forced conversion in Muslim lands.

Claiming that x percent of terrorism is done by Muslims requires talking about other groups.
Are you denying that Islam is a violent religion?
Are you denying that Mohammed killed people and advocated the use of the sword?
Are you denying that the jihaddists mission is to get everyone on earth to submit to Islam, by force if necessary.
 
Are you denying that Islam is a violent religion?
Now I’m starting to wonder if you’re reading the same thread I am. Of course I’m denying it’s violent. Hello, I said so explicitly.
Are you denying that Mohammed killed people and advocated the use of the sword?
No. I am denying that he advocated using the sword to force conversion. He forbade the practice.
Are you denying that the jihaddists mission is to get everyone on earth to submit to Islam, by force if necessary.
Yes. Not even Al Qaeda has this goal. People who claim this is the goal of the terrorists usually haven’t actually read many or even one of the documents the terrorists produce.
 
You got mixed up. Christian Emperors forced conversion. Muslims did not. You’re backwards on your history there. There has never been a policy of forced conversion in Muslim lands.
Just the threat of beheading, massacre, rape/mutilation, killing, slaughtering of yourself and/or your family if you convert to anything BUT Islam while on Muslim land… hmm… ok, if that isn’t the very definition of terrorism, I must be an idiot. :o
 
The policy of forced conversion wherever Christians had a firm hold is uniform. I don’t think you can find a single example of a pre-enlightenment Christian society that did not have a policy of forced conversion.
One must first understand Medevial Times looked through the lens of today’s society will give a very inacurate understanding of what was actually happening.

Forced conversions through conquest did occur, but to an even larger extent conversions were through the many missionaries who went into foreign lands to spread the faith, with some even dying for it.

Why did the Crusades begin? To protect prilgrims from being persecuted by Muslims in the Holy Land.

Why were the Muslims driven from the Iberian Peninsular? There presence destabilised the region because for 100s of years they were warring against the Christians in the same area and heavily persecuted Christians in their lands.

The Enlightenment is actually more of a forced imposition of modernist ideas.
 
You guys are still giving Pro a forum for his moslem propaganda. If you quit playing his game, he will go away.:confused:
 
Just the threat of beheading, massacre, rape/mutilation, killing, slaughtering of yourself and/or your family if you convert to anything BUT Islam while on Muslim land… hmm… ok, if that isn’t the very definition of terrorism, I must be an idiot. :o
That’s not true at all. Each religion was able to apply its own law to its people, meaning, if a Christian wanted to become a Jew…Christian law on the subject applied.

The exception was that people were free to become Muslims if they wanted, regardless of Christian or Jewish law.
 
Forced conversions through conquest did occur, but to an even larger extent conversions were through the many missionaries who went into foreign lands to spread the faith, with some even dying for it.
The vast majority of conversions to Christianity were by force. Nearly all of Europe, South America, and North America were converted by force.
Why did the Crusades begin? To protect prilgrims from being persecuted by Muslims in the Holy Land.
That’s one theory, but hardly proven. It’s much more likely that they began because Europe regained the strength to make itself an imperial power.
Why were the Muslims driven from the Iberian Peninsular? There presence destabilised the region because for 100s of years they were warring against the Christians in the same area and heavily persecuted Christians in their lands.
Destabilized the region? Huh? Heavily persecuting Christians?

Complete falsehood. There was one group that persecuted Muslims and Christians (the Almohads), but that wasn’t just aimed at Christians so…
The Enlightenment is actually more of a forced imposition of modernist ideas.
Right, and that’s when the Church finally lost the power to punish heretics and declare religious law, something it had done for the entirety of its history before that.
 
Right, and that’s when the Church finally lost the power to punish heretics and declare religious law, something it had done for the entirety of its history before that.
Now you are mixing up what the Church did and what the State did in the name of the Church before the Enlightenment. Missionaries have been murdered by the State for opposing violent measures practised on the natives. You abviously have ZERO understanding about the development of the Church through 2,000 years. The Church did not in any way start of with any secular power at all. Furthermore that the Western Church slowly began to take on administrative functions was a product of the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Church did not have the same experience. As for the suppression of heretics, the State was more involved in it because heresy destabalised the State.

Yet obviously this discussion is deviating from the main topic, Terrorism is Alien to Islam. From the perspective that there are devout Muslims who are Terrorist, the claim put forth is already disputed. From the perspective that there are contradictory passages that preach peace and violence, acts of violence then are not Alien to Islam. From the perspective of the killing of innocents it is useless to claim that in Islam there have been none. To a very large extent the violence of Islam destroyed the Eastern Churches. Islam being tolerant? Well former Cathedrals were turned into Mosques. The Hagia Sophia was turned into a Mosque.
 
That’s not true at all. Each religion was able to apply its own law to its people, meaning, if a Christian wanted to become a Jew…Christian law on the subject applied.

The exception was that people were free to become Muslims if they wanted, regardless of Christian or Jewish law.
You know that’s not true… then and now.

You said there was no forced coversions ON MUSLIM LAND. The scope of my comment was narrowed to your reference of being on Muslim territory. My comment reflects the inaccuracy of that by the sheer fact that Muslims, on Muslim ground, use terroristic tactics to prevent anyone from converting to anything other than Islam. And if they don’t use the terroristic tactics, the non-Muslims are subjugated to being second class citizens, not afforded the equal dignity afforded to all by God.

Where is the “free will” in all of this?

The difference between your first comment quoted above and the second comment is that Christians won’t kill a person if they choose to switch to another religion (you are obviously a good example seeing how you’ve denounced Catholicism and is now studying Islam and no one has tried to take your life or make you a second class citizen). Have a Muslim person try to convert to Christianity or Judaism while in a Muslim country and they (or their loved ones) are libel to lose a life.

So in a sense, you are correct that people are free to convert to Islam… but not the other way around. Again, not allowed to use free will given to use freely by God.

You are word-smithing and you know it.
 
pro says Islam is not violent. I am wondering if he lives on the same planet as I am. Tell you what pro. Let’s meet in Saudi Arabia for an open air Mass for all the Christians there. I am sure it will be completely safe. Talk about putting your head in the sand.

As for forced conversions. I have posted things from recent days that show this. Just last month the Muslims told the pope to convert or die. Isn’t that force? Today they issued a fatwa against the pope. Your denials of the obvious are obscene. The Spanish fought for freedom for 700 years. They hated being dhimmi. You would too, but you will convert. It is the rest of us who will suffer.
 
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