Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns

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Apparently you feel that it is possible to somehow recognize and stop a school kid with a gun by talking to him. It doesn’t work that way. Records show that the shooter may have avoided any previous display of hostility, and like at VT, he strikes out at the world around him without warning. Allowing teachers to carry (if the teacher so chooses) is a positive step towards safer schools. Those that have concealed weapons permits have been shown to be very responsible citizens, with an excellent safety record. Check it out.
 
By this logic we should ban all cars from schools. More kids are harmed by cars than the misuse of guns.
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Right. If no one was allowed to drive on school grounds, there would be many fewer injuries an deaths on school property. Kids are killed and injured every year by cars. One such happened last spring in a school parking lot in my town. There are many others each year.

So yes, it would be safer. The issue is that the powers that be think that the hazard is small enough to justify the practical need to bring kids to school on time.

So, arming teachers before you ban all vehicles from school property is an illogical move; you have addressed a very unlikely hazard, while permitting a much greater one. And seeing as far more people are killed by accidental discharge of firearms than are shot by people defending themselves, merely bringing arms into the school increases hazards for children.

Again, this is a political/ideological move, that has nothing to do with concern for children.
 
The_Barbarian said:
So, arming teachers And seeing as far more people are killed by accidental discharge of firearms than are shot by people defending themselves, merely bringing arms into the school increases hazards for children.
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What you’re saying in not fact!

NON_CHL holders do the majority of the misuse of firearms.

As a Texas CHL Holder I must:
Ø HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS—LIFE TIME
Ø NO CLASS A OR B MISDEMEANORS WITH THE LAST FIVE YEARS
Ø PASS BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL FINGERPRINT AND BACKROUND CHECKS
Ø NO DELINQUENT CONDUCT WITHIN THE PAST 10 YEARS
Ø NOT DELINQUENT IN CHILD SUPPORT, STUDENT LOANS, OR STATE/LOCAL TAXES.

I’m not going to talk about the 10 to 15 hours of training done by a qualified instructor certified by the Texas Department of Public Safety [State Police] and must pass 70% firing at the pistol range.

If guns are not the answer for self-defense please tell me what is answer?

I can’t think of one when some scumbag coward goes into a school to kill people.

Teachers have a right to defend themselves. Calling 911 is too late.
 
What you’re saying in not fact!
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Yep. It’s true. The hazard of having guns in classrooms is greater than the hazard that someone might come on campus and shoot a student.

Would you like to see the numbers?
NON_CHL holders do the majority of the misuse of firearms.
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The majority. Yep. And CHL holders are safer than most of the guys running loose with weapons. But they are still more likely to mess up than it is likely that there will be an attack on students in school.
If guns are not the answer for self-defense please tell me what is answer?
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Some years ago, the National Safety Council took a look at that. They took NRA figures on the number of people who annually either shoot or scare off an attacker/intruder with a firearm, vs. the number of people accidentally shot each year. Turns out, about 20% of Americans live where it is actually safer to have a gun than not to have a gun.

Schools, as you might know, are a lot safer than that. Would you like to see current numbers on that?
 
The_Barbarian said:
Ironically, kids are many times more likely to be hurt or killed in their own homes than in schools. Carrying guns in schools is only slightly less daffy than building a meteorite shield over your house.
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Well the first part of your statement is not exactly true for a typical household. Where it is true is in households where a violent criminal resides, or where an illegal gun exists (guns are not legally allowed to be owned by felons), or where a drug abuser resides. But it is not true if you live in a stable household.

So while guns in the home may injure a child, first subtract off the households with violent offenders, domestic abusers, drug users and gang members and you will find that the statistic you quoted is actually wrong. Funny thing is when you subtract off the riff-raff of the world then you actually end up with ‘normal’ families and in homes of normal families that statistic is false.
As for taking guns into schools, my wife is a high school teacher in Indiana. She is instructed to lock her classroom door and wait if a gunman enters the school. She asked if she was waiting for the gunman to go from room to room because the locks can be easily shot off.

Looking at the Texas rules they actually seem very reasonable to me. The teacher must be qualified and have
  1. a concealed carry permit.
  2. have gone through special training on conflicts
  3. must be specifically authorized by the administration
As for the comments about “ONLY IN TEXAS” that is actually wrong. Several states already allow faculty to carry guns on school grounds. So far not one student has been shot accidently!
 
So, if one has not teachers who are armed with anything other than scissors, a person or persons walk into the schoole where you have set policy and shoot two kids in the hall. Then they start walking down the hallway to the cafeteria where most of the students are.

How do you stop him?
 
Well the first part of your statement is not exactly true for a typical household. Where it is true is in households where a violent criminal resides, or where an illegal gun exists (guns are not legally allowed to be owned by felons), or where a drug abuser resides. But it is not true if you live in a stable household.
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About 300 children a year die from accidental gunshot wounds, with about 80 not clearly defined. (1999 NSC Accident Facts)

I would be willing to see your evidence that even half of them are in households where a violent criminal lives or a drug abuser resides.
So while guns in the home may injure a child, first subtract off the households with violent offenders, domestic abusers, drug users and gang members and you will find that the statistic you quoted is actually wrong.
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The floor is yours. Show us.
As for taking guns into schools, my wife is a high school teacher in Indiana. She is instructed to lock her classroom door and wait if a gunman enters the school. She asked if she was waiting for the gunman to go from room to room because the locks can be easily shot off.
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Have you ever tried to do that? It’s not like in the movies.
kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/12/special_megamovie_myths.html
 
Yes I would like to see the numbers.
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In 2005-2006, 14 students were the victims of homicide in a public school. That represents a risk of about one in
Here’s the relative likelihood of a child being shot in school:
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/images/School Shootings/Deaths in young people.jpg

**This means an average of about 9.3 cases per year or about once a month during the school year. Although we should strive to prevent all such cases, in a nation of 119,000 schools, a rate of 9.3 cases per year means that the average school can expect such an event about once every 12,800 years (119,000 divided by 9.3). **
youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/school-shootings.html

On the other hand, about 300-400 kids die from accidental gunshots each year, and about 2 thousand die from intentional shootings.
med.umich.edu/1libr/yourchild/guns.htm

Obviously, it’s crazy to focus on schools, where such things are extremely rare. (about six-tenths of one percent of the total) The real focus should be on the easy availability of guns to children in so many homes. A lot of parents kid themselves about how they’ve hidden guns or put them out of reach. Kids are more resourceful than most people think.
 
pnewton said:
So, if one has not teachers who are armed with anything other than scissors, a person or persons walk into the schoole where you have set policy and shoot two kids in the hall. Then they start walking down the hallway to the cafeteria where most of the students are.

How do you stop him?
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Well, for one thing, he darn well better have a hall pass, or he’s getting major detention…:mad:

If the background checks etc are suitably strict, and the schools are not willing to put security guards in…🤷 Once someone is in your school with an intent to kill/maim/kidnap/rape, it’s too late.

My opinion on this issue is in a constant state of flux. I’m not sure that my opinion is fully informed – let alone formed on this point. As a point of reference, I am Canadian – we have no “Second Amendment” here.

I’m going to waffle a while on this, chew it over, look at the facts and arguments a bit more. It’s a serious issue, and I don’t want to shoot from the hip or go off half-cocked (so to speak…)
 
Ghoti said:
I’m going to waffle a while on this, chew it over, look at the facts and arguments a bit more. It’s a serious issue, and I don’t want to shoot from the hip or go off half-cocked (so to speak…)
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Good answer. You get extra credtit for humor.

Meanwhile…
The Barbarian is consulting charts while he does that one of the gun-toting kids remembered a teacher that gave him detention. He wasted her and a cheerleader that wouldn’t go out with him. By now the gunshots have alerted others and a phone call has gone out to the police. Still, there is plenty of time for them to take out a few more people while the police drive to the scene, assess the situation, find where on campus the gunmen are, etc.

Next move?
 
pnewton said:
Good answer. You get extra credtit for humor.

Meanwhile…
The Barbarian is consulting charts while he does that one of the gun-toting kids remembered a teacher that gave him detention. He wasted her and a cheerleader that wouldn’t go out with him. By now the gunshots have alerted others and a phone call has gone out to the police. Still, there is plenty of time for them to take out a few more people while the police drive to the scene, assess the situation, find where on campus the gunmen are, etc.

Next move?
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I am not quite sure how to feel about this.I teach in one of the largest school districts in Texas (NISD). We have NISD police officers on each campus - and usually have at least two officers on each HS campus at all times - sometimes more. All of our NISD cops were previous San Antonio Police Officers - or have been through the SAPD academy.

My understanding is there has never been a school shooting where you have Campus Police Officers present (as opposed to an off duty sheriff’s deputy).

It’s one thing to have a concealed gun permit for personal protection (I am planning on getting mine) - however - having a gun permit is does not mean you have tactical training.

That is my concern.
 
The Barbarian is consulting charts while he does that one of the gun-toting kids remembered a teacher that gave him detention. He wasted her and a cheerleader that wouldn’t go out with him. By now the gunshots have alerted others and a phone call has gone out to the police. Still, there is plenty of time for them to take out a few more people while the police drive to the scene, assess the situation, find where on campus the gunmen are, etc.
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But pnewton will never know any of this. He failed to put a meteorite shield over his house, and one scored a direct hit on his home last night. Should have been more careful, um?

The key is to spend your time and money on the threats most likely to do the most damage. And shootings aren’t even close to being a significant hazard in schools. I fear driving to work far more than being in a school. For the obvious reason. Driving to work is thousands of times more dangerous than being in a school.

It’s an elaboration on the guy who, when told that a hazard is one in 14 million says “yeah, but what if you’re that one?” And then smiles as if he’s said something profound. Las Vegas gets rich on people who think like pnewton.
 
The_Barbarian said:
The key is to spend your time and money on the threats most likely to do the most damage. And shootings aren’t even close to being a significant hazard in schools.
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Then there should be no problem with letting CCW license holders carry guns in schools.
 
The_Barbarian said:
The key is to spend your time and money on the threats most likely to do the most damage. And shootings aren’t even close to being a significant hazard in schools.
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False dicholotomy. Because something is considerably less dangerous does not make it unworthy of addressing. You offer no solutions, at least not any that will stop the slaughter about to occur.

Having a campus police is one solution, but that is not an economic solution in many cases. Money has also been spent on awareness training. Here is a time line of school shootings.

infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

If you want to talk about rarity, how much more rare are trained CHL holders involved in violence using their guns. Anyone qualified for a CHL is also qualified to be police. Therefore, there really is no downside, at least one that can be shown to be legitimate.

BTW - NASA is working on the meteorite shield, in a sense, by tracking NEO’s and developing plans to deal with them.
 
Houston radio station KTRH is running a poll this morning.

73% are in favor of teachers being allowed to carry guns.
26% oppose the measure.

Here is a link: ktrh.com/main.html
 
melensdad said:
Houston radio station KTRH is running a poll this morning.

73% are in favor of teachers being allowed to carry guns.
26% oppose the measure.

Here is a link: ktrh.com/main.html
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Yeah but that pole don’t count, us people in flyover country are not enlightened. Plus it’s on talk radio.

Were just bunch Church going, Bible thumping, gun owners.
 
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