Thank God for Evolution!

[drpmjhess]

So we know better than God what the planet can sustain? A woman who breast feeds for around three years will have between 4 and 12 children. God knows this and I believe He planned the earth pretty well. It is apparent you do not believe He did…

I never said anything about knowing better than God. I said that the Hebrew author of Genesis – writing at a time when the size of the earth was not known, when the constitution of the biosphere and its complex interactions was not known, and when humans struggled to survive drought and famine – stood in a very different location than we do today.

It is no coincidence that the human population – which had risen very slowly to one billion in 1859, the year that petroleum extraction was discovered – has swelled in 150 years to nearly seven billion. This population increase is in direct response to the availability of food made possible by the extraction of natural gas that is synthesized into fertilizers, and the extraction of petroleum to fuel our tractors, our deep water pumping systems, our combine harvesters, our processing plants, and our transportation systems. When the fossil fuels are exhausted – and oil production will peak sometime between 2005 and 2012 – the human population will crash back to the level of what can be sustained by the annual (name removed by moderator)ut of solar energy. Some pessimists believe this will be the pre-oil level of one billion. I am somewhat more optimistic that with application of appropriate alternative technologies earth can sustain 2-3 billion humans.

Petrus

 

[buffalo]

I never said anything about knowing better than God. I said that the Hebrew author of Genesis – writing at a time when the size of the earth was not known, when the constitution of the biosphere and its complex interactions was not known, and when humans struggled to survive drought and famine – stood in a very different location than we do today.

It is no coincidence that the human population – which had risen very slowly to one billion in 1859, the year that petroleum extraction was discovered – has swelled in 150 years to nearly seven billion. This population increase is in direct response to the availability of food made possible by the extraction of natural gas that is synthesized into fertilizers, and the extraction of petroleum to fuel our tractors, our deep water pumping systems, our combine harvesters, our processing plants, and our transportation systems. When the fossil fuels are exhausted – and oil production will peak sometime between 2005 and 2012 – the human population will crash back to the level of what can be sustained by the annual (name removed by moderator)ut of solar energy. Some pessimists believe this will be the pre-oil level of one billion. I am somewhat more optimistic that with application of appropriate alternative technologies earth can sustain 2-3 billion humans.

Petrus

So again we doubt the inspiration of Genesis. Did God or did He not command Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply?

 

[drpmjhess]

So again we doubt the inspiration of Genesis. Did God or did He not command Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply?

You raise an interesting question, since the two sentences of your post assume different things. The first sentence hints at a theology of inspiration; the second implies inspiration to be akin to divine dictation. Inspiration and dictation are quite different.

 

[edwest2]

Why the lost 40 years? Here it is:

Birth Control Pill in 1960. Gradually, young women are encouraged to wear mini-skirts and bikinis.

1. Hippies, Yippies, Anarchists and drugs are cool!
   1973 Abortion legalized.
   1978 NOW drives a wedge between men and women. Men are evil. Women need to be liberated - so they can be male chauvenist pigs too.
   1980s No-fault Divorce sweeps the country. Porn in hotels/motels, plus cable, and lots of “Adult” Bookstores.
   1990s You can no longer tell a secular person from a Christian. Divorce rates about equal or a little higher. Porn on TV, plus profanity and the internet.

The Body of Christ was slowly poisoned. What seemed like it was not so bad, at first, became worse and worse. Christians gradually began imitating non-Christians around them. They slowly trickled out of Church and some became Sunday only Catholics.

Forty years ago, there was respect for the media, the government and Church. But, those who wanted to tear down the family were hard at work. They got some of us to like drugs, to not trust anyone over 30 (especially parents, priests, etc.), to live with someone without benefit of some ‘piece of paper,’ and to follow the “if it feels good, do it” lifestyle.

It took 40 years, but gradually, adults and young people are coming back to the Church. They realize what was lost.

God bless,
Ed

 

[drpmjhess]

Gradually, young women are encouraged to wear mini-skirts and bikinis.

Your point is?

 

[edwest2]

Modesty in dress - lost.
Decency, politeness - way down.
Profanity is now OK!
Drugs are cool!
Heck, everybody else is getting divorced. Why not me?
Everybody else is just living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. Why not me?

When the dignity of the person is violated, respect is lost for that person and those around him.

When men and women, husbands and wives, are set against each other, the family disintegrates.

When we fail to practice what we are taugh as Catholics, the work and life of Christ diminishes in our lives and the lives of all around us. A sensitivity to SIN is lost.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Heck, everybody else is getting divorced. Why not me?
Everybody else is just living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. Why not me?

Because you’re a practicing Christian, and they aren’t.

 

[drpmjhess]

When men and women, husbands and wives, are set against each other, the family disintegrates.God bless,
Ed

I agree with you that sin is serious. I just don’t see how you connect the dots between the wearing of bikinis and the disintegration of the family. I know many Catholic women in wonderful marriage relationships who’ve never contemplated divorce. Of course they only wear bikinis when it is appropriate, such as while swimming – not in Church.

Petrus

 

[edwest2]

You apparently missed that period of time when “feminists” accused men of objectifying women. Dressing them in skimpier and skimpier outfits. And treating them as “sex objects” and not as complete human beings.

As a Catholic man, I refuse to go to beaches to see teenage girls running around in what is barely underwear much less a ‘bathing suit.’ Showing 90% or more of your body is sinful and an invitation to lust for men. Fact.

God bless,
Ed

 

[drpmjhess]

You apparently missed that period of time when “feminists” accused men of objectifying women. Dressing them in skimpier and skimpier outfits. And treating them as “sex objects” and not as complete human beings. Ed

Ed, I certainly share your horror of the objectification of women by men. But perhaps it’s a generational thing: while I personally prefer to wear clothes, I’m no puritan, and I do not equate exposing 90% or even 100% of the skin with sin. Nor can I draw a straight line between a particular style of beach wear and the moral decline of Western Civilization.
Petrus

 

[SpiritMeadow]

The survey says - 85% of Catholics contracept.

You thinks it’s because of obstinance or they just haven’t had the complete Catholic explanation?

No I tend to think its because their parents who are my age lived through that time until people were given the right of “personal conscience”. Members of my family left practicing in the church because of the early 60’s refusal to allow contraception. When that was lightened, a lot returned. There was no doubt they knew what Catholic teaching was. It was in fact very liberal. Now of course everyone says that its not.

This contracepting parents are of course explaining that to their children. I doubt anyone is much unaware of what the teaching is.

 

[edwest2]

generational? Whre did that come from? Question: exposing more and more skin in public, whether through mini-skirts or bikinis, made women more sexy or less sexy?

God bless,
Ed

 

[SpiritMeadow]

What??? Carrying capacity of the earth? WOW!!!

This sort of goes against God’s command go forth and multiply.

**Given that it was said to the early Hebrews, I not sure it wa meant for a planet now billions bigger in population. Additionally, we are also called to be stewards of the planet. This would naturally mean reasonable populations that don’t overtax the environment. **

It also goes way against putting our trust in God for He will provide.

**Course that is always subject to "God helps those who help themselves. **

I have not seen the command rescinded nor do I see God either in scripture or Tradition spelling out family size.
**And no where did it state that we were to raise herds of kids either. This whole thing got caught up in doctrines I think that were in danger of conflict. **

Uh NO!!! A properly formed conscience is required not a conscience of convenience.

**LOL what would a properly formed conscience be? If its one conforming to Rome that rather defeats the purpose does it not? **

Bottom line - you are making a case that we should limit the number of souls that will spend eternity with God.

**The logic escapes me. Aren’t religious and clergy doing that as well? All single people? All elderly become unnecessary because they cannot reproduce. **

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Why the lost 40 years? Here it is:

Birth Control Pill in 1960. Gradually, young women are encouraged to wear mini-skirts and bikinis.

1. Hippies, Yippies, Anarchists and drugs are cool!
   1973 Abortion legalized.
   1978 NOW drives a wedge between men and women. Men are evil. Women need to be liberated - so they can be male chauvenist pigs too.
   1980s No-fault Divorce sweeps the country. Porn in hotels/motels, plus cable, and lots of “Adult” Bookstores.
   1990s You can no longer tell a secular person from a Christian. Divorce rates about equal or a little higher. Porn on TV, plus profanity and the internet.

The Body of Christ was slowly poisoned. What seemed like it was not so bad, at first, became worse and worse. Christians gradually began imitating non-Christians around them. They slowly trickled out of Church and some became Sunday only Catholics.

Forty years ago, there was respect for the media, the government and Church. But, those who wanted to tear down the family were hard at work. They got some of us to like drugs, to not trust anyone over 30 (especially parents, priests, etc.), to live with someone without benefit of some ‘piece of paper,’ and to follow the “if it feels good, do it” lifestyle.

It took 40 years, but gradually, adults and young people are coming back to the Church. They realize what was lost.

**Who is the “they” that have done all this to you ed? You posit a they that wants to destroy families, make people drug users, encourage disrespect to parents and priests (note not teachers), encourage fornication etc. Well I can see the 60;s really upset you.Funny, I sure enjoyed it. We at least had principles. I’ve not seen much of that since.

I don’t know where you live Ed, but I sure feel bad for you. Sounds like a miserable town or city. Perhaps you should consider moving. Most of the rest of us in the world don’t see everythng nearly so bleak. Iowa is a great. Come on out!**

 

[drpmjhess]

generational? Whre did that come from? Question: exposing more and more skin in public, whether through mini-skirts or bikinis, made women more sexy or less sexy?God bless,Ed

Ed, what makes a woman “sexy” in the eyes of a man (or a man in the eyes of a woman) varies with the individual. All I said was that I decline to draw a straight line between a particular style of beach dress or undress (male or female) and the moral decline of Western Civilization.

What I do notice is that where people are obsessed with what my Jesuit colleague calls “pelvic ethics” – an overweening focus on the pelvis as the locus of immoral action – younger Catholics tend to get turned off by the Church. In communities where the Church focuses its moral opprobrium not on beachwear but on grave moral injustices committed in the social, economic, and political spheres, kids are far more likely to be interested in their Church.

In other words, pay attention to what’s really important (and spend less time on pelvic ethics) and younger people are more likely to be attracted to continued or revitalized participation in the life of their Church.

Petrus

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Because you’re a practicing Christian, and they aren’t.

I’m not sure if Ed is mad that they can do it and he can’t or that “they” are doing it. Apparently he doesnt believe in women’s rights or most anything…I really think I shall say a novena…that much anger and pain calls for a response.

 

[edwest2]

Ed, what makes a woman “sexy” in the eyes of a man (or a man in the eyes of a woman) varies with the individual. All I said was that I decline to draw a straight line between a particular style of beach dress or undress (male or female) and the moral decline of Western Civilization.

What I do notice is that where people are obsessed with what my Jesuit colleague calls “pelvic ethics” – an overweening focus on the pelvis as the locus of immoral action – younger Catholics tend to get turned off by the Church. In communities where the Church focuses its moral opprobrium not on beachwear but on grave moral injustices committed in the social, economic, and political spheres, kids are far more likely to be interested in their Church.

In other words, pay attention to what’s really important (and spend less time on pelvic ethics) and younger people are more likely to be attracted to continued or revitalized participation in the life of their Church.

Petrus

Nice attempt to dodge. You’ll note that most of the current issues the Church is dealing with concern human sexuality and its misuse: pornography, contraception, embryonic stem cell research, in-vitro fertilization, gay marriage.

You can attempt to ignore these issues but the breakdown between the proper relationship between men and women lays squarely on the shoulders of Hippies, Anarchists, Communists, the National Organization for Women and pornographers.

God bless,
Ed

 

[drpmjhess]

I’m not sure if Ed is mad that they can do it and he can’t or that “they” are doing it. Apparently he doesnt believe in women’s rights or most anything…I really think I shall say a novena…that much anger and pain calls for a response.

SpiritMeadow, I’m just glad my church doesn’t focus on pelvic ethics. We have a vibrant youth group, oriented to prayer and service. They pray and play and eat and work together, and they participate in Mass as well. They have been known to go to the beach together, although I haven’t had a prurient enough interest to send out my spies to see whether any of them wear bikinis…
Petrus

 

[Neil_Anthony]

**Who is the “they” that have done all this to you ed? You posit a they that wants to destroy families, make people drug users, encourage disrespect to parents and priests (note not teachers), encourage fornication etc. Well I can see the 60;s really upset you.Funny, I sure enjoyed it. We at least had principles. I’ve not seen much of that since.

I don’t know where you live Ed, but I sure feel bad for you. Sounds like a miserable town or city. Perhaps you should consider moving. Most of the rest of us in the world don’t see everythng nearly so bleak. Iowa is a great. Come on out!**

OMG it all makes so much sense now. The flower children are retiring and have time to learn theology.

Ed, remember what Jesus said:

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, lie, and say all kinds of evil things about you because of me.

 

[edwest2]

Thank you.

God bless,
Ed