Thanks a lot, NOT!

[sweetpetunia]

As to resentment, feelings are not bad. All your feelings are okay. Its only what you do with them that can become a problem. But your bad negative feelings are important, they tell you things, so do not be ashamed of negative feelings like resentment. There is probably a very good reason you feel this! Feel your feelings and take them to the Lord. Come as you are to Him, just as you are. As in “Lord, today I come to you deeply resenting my husband. It feels so unfair when he ___… Lord, please comfort me and make me feel better!” He will.

I respectfully disagree. Not all feelings are okay–they can even be disordered What they are is amoral because they don’t actively engage our will. Anger can be just and appropriate, or anger can be unjust and inappropriate. The feeling itself (movement of the sensitive appetite) is amoral until it engages our will. The actions we choose regarding that feeling are what we are responsible for. Resentment is willfully harboring feelings of anger.

 

[sweetpetunia]

There are two interpretations of this scenaria:

a) The OP’s husband is an immature, selfish, lazy jerk.

b) The OP is very tough on her husband.

I suspect the truth is a bit of both.

I kind of wonder if there isn’t an option “c”; namely, that he is depressed. Some of the behaviors listed sound like classic symptoms of depression to me.

 

[sweetpetunia]

JLCecilia,
I took a peek at some of your old posts for context, and noted that you have been at your husband for some time to pull his weight at home with not a lot of success. At this point, I think it would be wise to take a pragmatic approach to the situation. What I mean is, it’s time to take a look at the cost- benefit ratio of constantly getting after your husband, and also of being upset with him for not helping out more.

The reality is, your time and emotional energy are both finite commodities, and girl, I can’t imagine that you have much to spare, what with parenting, pregnancy, working outside of home, caring for your home, caring for your children, caring for yourself, and the recurring infections that have been haunting y’all. At this point in time, the return is just not worth the investment, so I am going to suggest give yourself permission to let it go for now. Take a temporary leave of absence from trying to fix your husband, and focus your energies and attentions on other things.

The reality is that resentment is exhausting, and expectations are preemptive disappointments. So, you have a choice-- you can continue to fight him tooth and nail to help you, or you can let it go and focus your time and energy elsewhere. I honestly believe that latter is the path to your own happiness and peace, not to mention your children’s.

In terms of practical solutions I would suggest following up on your idea of enlisting help from your parents/sitters asap. Also, I would be looking for ways to simplify your life and daily routines as much as possible for the next little while. (Some ideas are: keep meals simple—e.g., grilled cheese and fruit for supper will do just fine; use the dishwasher if you have one, if not, consider paper plates; get fruit that takes little to no preparation; buy your veggies pre-washed and pre-chopped, even flash-frozen; consider slow-cooker meals; relax on the couch as much as possible and direct the kids to pick up, mark the kids’ clothes as cold, warm, and hot water with a sharpie and have a laundry bin for each so that you don’t have to sort, outsource as much as possible, and most importantly, let the extra, non-essential stuff go!)

You mentioned not having a lot of quality time or one-on-one time with the kids, but maybe you can find little ways to make them feel special. (e.g., print out some free printable lunch notes, and keep them on hand for when you pack up the kids’ lunch. You can even pre-write “xoxo, mom” on them for a personal but time-efficient touch. Another idea that might work for your eldest is to keep a journal under his/her pillow that you both write notes to each other in. That way, you can do it in on your time, when you have a spare minute. Also, spread the job of lovin’ on them around. Have them call up Grandma for a chat if you can’t lavish as much time and attention on them as you’d like!) Definitely always make time for hugs and kisses and snuggling.

Hang on tight to your spirituality, and don’t let go. Remember that merit never gets wasted and also that Christ loves us even when we’re not repentant and don’t deserve His mercy. Your husband might very well be the reason for your luxurious spot in heaven some day

 

[underacloud]

Wow, I did NOT have the same conclusion you did, that she is condescending and sarcastic? Where did you ever get such a negative judgement of the OP? Can you give a specific example? Its only fair to come up with one when you judge her as you did.

I understand that you empathise with her and see similarities.

The sacrasm is not hard to show, from the OP and other posts…

Thanks, DH, for going out of your way for me . . .After a week of caring for sick babies and getting all kinds of pressure from work, it finally hit me at the store Saturday evening. The entire week hit me all at once as I entered the store and I spent my shopping trip trying to fight back the tears. I made it to the car where I was finally able to break down, while DH is calling me on the phone. He heard my despair and I told him I was on my way home, yet he was not waiting for me to help me carry the groceries in.

5 mo. pregnant w/ a bum knee from a staph infection, I waddle up to the front door, arms loaded w/ groceries. I could see him just feet away from the front door, yet he calls one of our kids to open the door for me. Finally, he comes to help hold the door open so I could fit through with all of the groceries and **graciously allowed **me to carry them all to the kitchen myself, RATHER than taking the bags and carrying them FOR me.

Last night, he **graciously let me **fight out bedtime with the kids for 2 hours by myself rather than get off of the computer and help me. This morning, he gets up @ 7:20 to close the bedroom door b/c the 3yo’s morning antics are keeping him from his rest. He let me carry the kids out to the car through the snow myself (no cleared walkways at OUR place).

When I made supper last night and called everyone to the kitchen to bless before we picnic’d in front of the basketball game, DH didn’t come. I was surprised he even asked me if I fixed him a plate b/c he knows that asking any such thing is just asking for it. Yeah, I’m gonna cater to a lazy jerk!

The above - my bolding - are clear examples of sarcasm inserted for effect. I honestly don’t think the OP does herself favours by doing so.

The condescension is harder to infer, since he may be as immature as she says. If she is exaggerating at all, then a post like this is condescending. It’s perhaps understandable frustration she is showing, but condescening nonetheless.

That sounds like a marvelous idea. I’d like to accompany him and his bags to his folks’ house and tell them, “I have my OWN 4 children to raise and this one isn’t mine, so when you’re done raising him, we’ll be happy to welcome him back.” My only problem is, after 7.5 years of marriage, I don’t think anything less than 6 months will do it.

 

[underacloud]

I kind of wonder if there isn’t an option “c”; namely, that he is depressed. Some of the behaviors listed sound like classic symptoms of depression to me.

Good observation. Yes, much of his behaviour could fit depression.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

I understand that you empathise with her and see similarities.

The sacrasm is not hard to show, from the OP and other posts…

What I see in this is bitterness. Our Lady was bitter (its one of the meanings of her name) over how her son was treated. Yet she did not sin. Yet she was bitter!

It is not a sin to feel bitterness in the face of injustice, in being treated unfairly and without love by the one who should love you.

Its very painful, and wrong, when someone is told that they should not feel what they feel when it is only normal to feel that way. And there is a need to vent. Venting anonymously on a forum that do not include her husband’s peers when no one can no the person she is talking about should be a safe place to vent!

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

I respectfully disagree. Not all feelings are okay–they can even be disordered What they are is amoral because they don’t actively engage our will. Anger can be just and appropriate, or anger can be unjust and inappropriate. The feeling itself (movement of the sensitive appetite) is amoral until it engages our will. The actions we choose regarding that feeling are what we are responsible for. Resentment is willfully harboring feelings of anger.

That’s pretty much what I said, its just semantics. I said the feelings are okay, you say they are amoral. We both said the problem starts with what you* do *with the feelings. Some feelings are bad one: resentment, anger and lead to bad actions. But they aren’t wrong until the immorral thing is done. Some feelings are good, kindness, love. But even good feelings can lead to trouble. Meddlesome misplaced kindness, love where it doesn’t belong.

Yes, willfully harboring resentment is wrong but who can gage that? Not us. Though in this case, I think she is feeling just and normal feelings for how she is treated. It seems a safe way to deal with them, to vent them here, and solicit advice. Its sounds like she is being very disciplined with her feelings.

After my divorce my ex still used every opportunity to be cruel, probably because he saw he could get a reaction out of me. I wanted to “get over it” since the divorce was final and I accepted this was how it was but I had to confess in confession that I was having a hard time even saying his name in prayer; I just couldn’t not-hate just thinking of him. I was sure it wasn’t hate I felt, just I felt highly disgusted to think of him, and I felt guilty feeling that. The very holy priest told me my feelings were understandable, and did not see a need to confess my feelings. But he asked if I would feel comfortable praying 3 Hail Mary’s for him every night. So I did. God eventually helped me lose the feeling of disgust over time, I am sure through Our Lady’s prayers. Mother Mary, who knows bitterness. She is the best intercessor in this case!

 

[underacloud]

What I see in this is bitterness. Our Lady was bitter (its one of the meanings of her name) over how her son was treated. Yet she did not sin. Yet she was bitter!

Our Lady experienced bitterness, which is different from being bitter. Anyway, that’s a matter of semantics perhaps…

It is not a sin to feel bitterness in the face of injustice, in being treated unfairly and without love by the one who should love you.

Its very painful, and wrong, when someone is told that they should not feel what they feel when it is only normal to feel that way. And there is a need to vent. Venting anonymously on a forum that do not include her husband’s peers when no one can no the person she is talking about should be a safe place to vent!

Right, no one knows the person being talked about, which is why we cannot presume that the OP’s “venting” is a fair reflection of the circumstances. We hear only her side, not his. But if this venting, dripping in sarcasm (even the thread title is sarcastic),is reflective of the way she speaks to her husband, and thinks of him, I’m just suggesting that she will need to find a way to deal with this resentment if she wants her marriage to improve.

If she wants to vent, I suggest she do so through prayer. Offer it all to God, and be open to the movement of the Spirit. I always find it hard to hold onto resentment if I have to verbalise (internally) that resentment to God in prayer. And I think they need to work with a counsellor who can help them communicate in positive, constructive ways and work towards healing this marriage.

 

[underacloud]

After my divorce my ex still used every opportunity to be cruel, probably because he saw he could get a reaction out of me. I wanted to “get over it” since the divorce was final and I accepted this was how it was but I had to confess in confession that I was having a hard time even saying his name in prayer; I just couldn’t not-hate just thinking of him. I was sure it wasn’t hate I felt, just I felt highly disgusted to think of him, and I felt guilty feeling that. The very holy priest told me my feelings were understandable, and did not see a need to confess my feelings. But he asked if I would feel comfortable praying 3 Hail Mary’s for him every night. So I did. God eventually helped me lose the feeling of disgust over time, I am sure through Our Lady’s prayers. Mother Mary, who knows bitterness. She is the best intercessor in this case!

My last post was before I read this. This is very touching and I think a great example for the OP. Whether this marriage can be improved or descends towards a similar end to yours, her prayers to and trust in Our Lady and Our Lord are her best foundation.

 

[JLCecilia]

Right, no one knows the person being talked about, which is why we cannot presume that the OP’s “venting” is a fair reflection of the circumstances. We hear only her side, not his. But if this venting, dripping in sarcasm (even the thread title is sarcastic),is reflective of the way she speaks to her husband, and thinks of him, I’m just suggesting that she will need to find a way to deal with this resentment if she wants her marriage to improve.

underacloud, your judgement of my postings is just. Something Dr. Ray Guarendi said on his afternoon show once struck a chord w/ me: the kind of people who go around crying about how much they sacrifice and how mistreated they are and they aren’t gonna take it anymore and they’re going to start looking out for #1 are oftentimes really the most selfish people. I don’t deny any relation this has to me and my attitude and how I deal w/ things. On the contrary, I really don’t have any feelings of “I’m just gonna go on my merry way and do what I want, to heck w/ him.” IMO, that would be letting DH off the hook way too easily. I want HIM to take care of ME!!! When we’ve breached the subject of all this mess w/ DH’s very trusted brother and he teases to kick DH out, my feelings are, no way he’s getting out that easily. If I have to struggle through this marriage and family, then so does he! As Dr. Ray jokes about him and his wife and their 10 kids: whoever cries divorce first takes all the kids

In my defense, however, I must say that I don’t ever say the sort of things to DH that I post here. In fact, I don’t really say much of anything to him. Instead, I give very curt responses or just the cold shoulder (not looking him in the eye, not acknowledging his presence). I know these really aren’t any better than out-and-out sarcasm, but sarcasm is actually a pet-peeve of mine. And really, verbalizing my frustration w/ him when he clearly has no time to acknowledge, let alone resolve anything, just makes me feel worse. It’s like setting myself up to be rejected AGAIN.

I appreciate the appeal for my spot in heaven as a result of dealing w/ all of this, but I’m not going to kid myself about sliding right in when I’m so uncharitable about it. I really try to avoid talking about DH at all to others b/c I don’t have 2 kinds words to say about him and I hate the thought of being ‘that’ bitter person or letting others into my private little world to see how sad I really am (only leads to patronizing consolation). That said, I’ve slipped a few times to my GFs. But, as dear as they are to me and as much as I trust them, I’m too jealous of them to tell them how rotten (I think) I have it. They are all very ‘kept’ women.

Thank you for all of the thoughts and prayer suggestions. I need to cool my jets and continue to pray for God to soften my hardened heart. I DO pray for His help in loving DH even if he never changes b/c how I’m feeling toward DH directly impacts the way I treat others and I make my own suffering in this way knowing I s/b doing better. Dear God, help me find SOMETHING about him to love; Jesus, complete our incompleteness, be my everything!

 

[underacloud]

Thank you for all of the thoughts and prayer suggestions. I need to cool my jets and continue to pray for God to soften my hardened heart. I DO pray for His help in loving DH even if he never changes b/c how I’m feeling toward DH directly impacts the way I treat others and I make my own suffering in this way knowing I s/b doing better. Dear God, help me find SOMETHING about him to love; Jesus, complete our incompleteness, be my everything!

I will keep you, your husband, and your children in my prayers. God bless.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

My last post was before I read this. This is very touching and I think a great example for the OP. Whether this marriage can be improved or descends towards a similar end to yours, her prayers to and trust in Our Lady and Our Lord are her best foundation.

…That said, I’ve slipped a few times to my GFs. But, as dear as they are to me and as much as I trust them, I’m too jealous of them to tell them how rotten (I think) I have it. They are all very ‘kept’ women.

Aww, I know how you feel. A similar thing for me was my always wanting plenty of children, and my ex denied me for many years (and it seemed to immoral to, as my friends suggested, just one day say “oops”…). My heart ached for children and for a time I experienced jealousy when others were blessed with a pregnancy or new baby (and a husband happy about it!). I saw I really needed to ask God to help me with that, and He did. With His help, I was able to just be happy for other’s joys, and keep my own related sorrow between me and the Lord, Who understood. And it was only Grace that enabled me to do that, because I would never have chosen to feel jealous in the first place!

One thing that helped me with my feelings that might help you is a little illustration that I learned some years earlier and stuck with me. A Train Engine with “Word” on it, a Train Car with the word “Action” and finally the Trains Caboose with the word “Feeling”. Basically first we embrace what is God’s word (or God’s will), the we act on it, THEN we feel good. Doing the act is stepping out in faith, we don’t always feel right about it, but we do anyway, and the feeling (of gladness or peace for having done the right thing) will follow after.******

So in this case of jealousy, after asking God to help me with my feelings, and confessing my sorrow to him, I acted on his will (to show joy for other’s joys not my own sorrow) and I expressed as sincerely as I could happiness for every new pregnancy or birth. I didn’t feel it at first but it was not so hard to say the right thing. It was not so hard - very soon I was able to rejoice for them very sincerely.

Maybe that idea will help you with your friends, especially if you go to the Lord with sadness or bitterness, giving your sadness to Him whenever it comes up. He wants to comfort you!

Eventually I learned to see all these emotional crosses and lacks in my marriage as wonderful opportunities to grow in Grace. So much I could not handle that I needed God’s helps to handle. If I could handle it all myself, I would not have learned to trust in God. So I see all those crosses as gain now. I just would not have learned to trust God as I do without them!

… I DO pray for His help in loving DH even if he never changes b/c how I’m feeling toward DH directly impacts the way I treat others and I make my own suffering in this way knowing I s/b doing better. Dear God, help me find SOMETHING about him to love; Jesus, complete our incompleteness, be my everything!

Very sensitive and insightful, humble thoughts, JLCecelia, and a very efficacious prayer!

---

****** I just finished reading Abby Johnson’s book, Unplanned, and this was truly illustrated in her testimony of acting on the right thing. It sure did not feel good for her to act on what was right, but she did, and then afterward, she had Joy!

 

[petitfleur]

This is a very touching thread. I can relate to much of what you say. I honestly don’t know what is worse, to go on in a marriage like this or divorce. I often question what example I am setting for my kids by staying.
Anyway, very touching. I particularly like the suggestions about quality time with your kids. I made a goal this year that no matter what I am going to have or attempt some small quality time with each of my four kids every day. It doesn’t have to be a big thing. sometimes a quick card game. I had the older girls help me clean the basement and we laughed and goofed around the whole time.
I do hope you find a way to be happy no matterwhat. I know how this can overflow in other areas of your life. I am touched by your honesty and humility. God Bless You.

 

[JLCecilia]

This is a very touching thread. I can relate to much of what you say. I honestly don’t know what is worse, to go on in a marriage like this or divorce. I often question what example I am setting for my kids by staying.
Anyway, very touching. I particularly like the suggestions about quality time with your kids. I made a goal this year that no matter what I am going to have or attempt some small quality time with each of my four kids every day. It doesn’t have to be a big thing. sometimes a quick card game. I had the older girls help me clean the basement and we laughed and goofed around the whole time.
I do hope you find a way to be happy no matterwhat. I know how this can overflow in other areas of your life. I am touched by your honesty and humility. God Bless You.

I really should be more considerate of my influence on the kids. Sometimes I harp that no matter how someone treats you, you’re never justified in being uncharitable, but I don’t walk the walk on that one. When I’ve thought of it in the past, all that comes to mind is ‘DH’s dad ommitted setting the right example for his sons and I’m paying for it. Now DH is ommitting the right example for OUR sons, so, not only do I have to put up w/ DH, but, as the kids get older, I’m gonna have to put up w/ 4 more little jerks.’ I just have to remember what Dr. Ray says: when the kids argue that I ask them to do things that dad doesn’t have to do, I’m to say ‘I’m not in charge of your father, I’m in charge of you.’ I think the toughest thing will be attending mass and participation in faith and parish activities. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Yes, the boys and I enjoy outings together. Now that they’re all big enough I feel comfortable taking thema alone, we enjoy just going out to eat together, or we’ll go on a ‘road trip’ and they go shopping w/ me. I’ve thought to the future to family vacations and I’m already planning on not inviting DH, but rather paying my GF’s way for an extra set of hands. DH can hardly even stand to take the kids out to dinner and the last few times I’ve gone to my folks 3 hours away, he sees it as an opportunity to have the house to himself for the weekend (a luxury I’ve yet to experience). It takes some patience on my part to sit down and play a game w/ the kids, but my oldest is getting into card games which I enjoy, that, or building blocks.

As much as DH professes his love for sports and we even made a special trip to buy all kinds of sporting goods, he’s yet to get out and work w/ the boys on their moves. Believe me, it’d be nice to get them ALL out of the house even just for an hour or so here and there.

Yes, my kids are my joy, but it does get lonely not having my partner there to share these precious moments.

 

[Sheeniac]

You said that when you ask him to do something, and if you say that you’re tired, then he is more tired than you.

Have you tried asking without a personal explanation?

Perhaps: “Here - take these groceries from me. I will go get another bag, but you need to get the rest. But I will put them away. Thanks.”

Of course, I’m a blunt, no-nonsense person. And I wouldn’t feel the need to pull feelings (physical or emotional) into it my request. This way, his way of responding won’t work.

For another perspective, I look at people and how they behave as logical responses. Right now, his actions (or lack thereof) do not ‘cost’ him anything. Until the cost outweighs the benefits of his inaction, he will continue along his merry way. You may have to figure out how to change the cost-benefit formula is he acting on.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Makes good sense, Sheeniac!

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. Unplug the computer before he arrives home and for entire weekends, along with the reduction of television by 50%.
   • this allows your Husband the time to shovel the walkway daily that you all use and allows him time to do all of the heavier things around the home (including the washing), cooking a bbq or dinner three times a week and in which he benefits, keeping him fit and healthy in soul, mind, heart and body (why not suggest he uses the time as prayer time too).
2. My suggestion is for all the grocery shopping to be done together as a Family (little ones included with a treat in their mouths while you are all doing the shopping) throughout the pregnancy and after you return home with your baby for the first few months.
3. Television, computers (different for CA prayers and participation of course) are satan’s tools for attempting to separate couples along with newspapers and magazines.
4. Replace the computer and any television or “mediums” with card and board games, visits to relatives or friends or have them pop over to give a hand on occasions if your husband refuses to co-operate.

Show actions not words by letting him know that if he cannot think for himself and do the tasks while you are extremely tired throughout the pregnancy; then ask someone else in your life, being relatives and friends, to pop over regularly demonstrating how loving and kind they are in assisting you and both your Family. Ensure that when they visit he is not home, otherwise your Husband may just plonk down chatting to them and enjoying their visits without ‘getting’ the hint! You inform him after their visits what they have done to assist you.

 

[petitfleur]

Rosary Child, I am not Op but if I did those suggestions my husband would go nuts. Jusy unplug his computer and insist on playing board games all weekend would end in a disaster!!!
I think your intentions are sweet but think it would also be disrespectful. I am imagining my husband taking my books and bubblebath away.

 

[JLCecilia]

Rosary Child, I am not Op but if I did those suggestions my husband would go nuts. Jusy unplug his computer and insist on playing board games all weekend would end in a disaster!!!
I think your intentions are sweet but think it would also be disrespectful. I am imagining my husband taking my books and bubblebath away.

I didn’t want to say anything and sound like I’m just arguing or making excuses, but this is the result it would have in my home as well. I’ve attempted taking away the computer in the past and it doesn’t really work. He will take over the television in the living room which is the kids’ primary play space and send them to their room so they don’t interrupt him. That, or just go to bed until the kids are asleep and get up/stay up all night and not be able to get up/go to work the next day. We’ve already spent several years in that viscious cycle resulting in reprimands from work and dings to our pocketbook.

Getting him to give me what I need by force I don’t see working in my favor.

 

[petitfleur]

I will just say have your own fun without him. I can say over time my husband felt a little left out but it was over time, as my kids are older. I have to admit we have ore fun without my husband but always invite him to come along. My situation has improved somewhat I wont lie and say its great, or I am really happy in my marriage but things are better.