That Crazy, "Absurd" Anmesty International

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rjs1:
A couple of people have replied to my comments about Amnesty International by telling me that I have been unaware of AI’s balanced approach because the media has only highlited the anti West side of AI’s comments.
However, while this arguement seems reasonable, it does not explain why the majority of major public demonstations that AI have had in my city over the last 20 years, have been directed against the United States or my own government.
Again I make the point that AI seems to have been somewhat one sided in its attack on infringements against human freedom and dignity.
I received a leaflet from AI UK this weekend. It asked me to write to the Royal Nepalese Army on behalf of Nepali student Sanjiv Kumar Karna currently imprisoned. It also mentioned Chinese citizen Rebiya Kadeer recently released from jail in China and Timonsheno Pekmezi released in Albania as a result of AI campaigns. None of these campaigns are likely to be much reported on Fox.

I suppose you will think that somehow these below the radar AI campaigns which change lives around the world are less important than AI reports on Gauntanamo Bay. Human Rights activists however are less partisan than you. A wrong is a wrong whoever commits it.

On the subject of China you can see an AI report at web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170012004 and you can see what AI Canada, to take a random example, is doing about it at amnesty.ca/china/actions/
 
Amnesty USA-‘Don’t know for sure’ about GuantanamoWASHINGTON (Reuters) - Despite highly publicized charges of U.S. mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo, the head of the Amnesty International USA said on Sunday the group doesn’t “know for sure” that the military is running a “gulag.”

Executive Director William Schulz said Amnesty, often cited worldwide for documenting human rights abuses, also had no information about whether Secretary Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved severe torture methods such as beatings and starvation.

Schulz recently dubbed Rumsfeld an “apparent high-level architect of torture” in asserting he approved interrogation methods that violated international law.

“It would be fascinating to find out. I have no idea,” Schulz told “Fox News Sunday.”

A weeks-long dispute has raged since Amnesty compared the prison for foreign terrorism suspects at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to the vast, brutal Soviet gulag system of forced labor camps in which millions of prisoners died.

There have been a number of accusations of American mistreatment of the detainees and of the Koran, the Islamic holy book, at the base.

The U.S. military on Friday released details about five cases in which the Koran was kicked, stepped on and soaked in water. Top officials say they were among 10 such cases reported among more than 28,000 prisoner interrogations.

Schulz said, “We don’t know for sure what all is happening at Guantanamo and our whole point is that the United States ought to allow independent human rights organizations to investigate.”

He also said he had “absolutely no idea” whether the International Red Cross had been given access to all prisoners and said the group feared others were being held at secret facilities or locations.

President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and, most recently, Rumsfeld have repudiated the report with the defense secretary branding it “reprehensible.”

The United States holds about 520 men at Guantanamo, where they are denied rights accorded under international law to prisoners of war. Many have been held without charge for more than three years.

Schulz noted that it was Amnesty’s headquarters in London that issued the annual report on global human rights, which said Guantanamo Bay “has become the gulag of our times.”

Asked about the comparison, Schulz said, “Clearly this is not an exact or a literal analogy.”

“… But there are some similarities. The United States is maintaining an archipelago of prisons around the world, many of them secret prisons into which people are being literally disappeared … And in some cases, at least, we know that they are being mistreated, abused, tortured and even killed.”

“And whether the Americans like it or not, it does reflect how the more than 2 million Amnesty members in a hundred countries around the world and indeed the vast majority of those countries feel about the United States’ detention policy,” he added.

[So now they issue condemnations based upon feelings?]
 
The Gulag comparison is not about Gauntanamo alone it is also about detainees (all unconvicted) being “rendered” to third countries like Egypt which routinely torture their own citizens.

amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=43C02049FA2549F480256F73005534D5
In 1973 AI published its first report on torture. It found that: “torture thrives on secrecy and impunity. Torture rears its head when the legal barriers against it are barred. Torture feeds on discrimination and fear. Torture gains ground when official condemnation of it is less than absolute.” The pictures of detainees in US custody in Abu Ghraib, Iraq, show that what was true 30 years ago remains true today.

Despite the near-universal outrage generated by the photographs coming out of Abu Ghraib, and the evidence suggesting that such practices are being applied to other prisoners held by the USA in Afghanistan, Guantánamo and elsewhere, neither the US administration nor the US Congress has called for a full and independent investigation.

Instead, the US government has gone to great lengths to restrict the application of the Geneva Conventions and to “re-define” torture. It has sought to justify the use of coercive interrogation techniques, the practice of holding “ghost detainees” (people in unacknowledged incommunicado detention) and the “rendering” or handing over of prisoners to third countries known to practise torture. The detention facility at Guantánamo Bay has become the gulag of our times, entrenching the practice of arbitrary and indefinite detention in violation of international law. Trials by military commissions have made a mockery of justice and due process.

The USA, as the unrivalled political, military and economic hyper-power, sets the tone for governmental behaviour worldwide. When the most powerful country in the world thumbs its nose at the rule of law and human rights, it grants a licence to others to commit abuse with impunity and audacity. From Israel to Uzbekistan, Egypt to Nepal, governments have openly defied human rights and international humanitarian law in the name of national security and “counter-terrorism”…
This is from AI’s Annual report which also looks at violations in these countries~
Afghanistan/35
Albania/37
Algeria/39
Angola/41
Argentina/43
Armenia/44
Australia/45
Austria/46
Azerbaijan/47
Bahamas/49
Bahrain/49
Bangladesh/50
Belarus/52
Belgium/54
Bhutan/56
Bolivia/57
Bosnia and Herzegovina/58
Brazil/60
Brunei Darussalam/63
Bulgaria/64
Burkina Faso/66
Burma (see Myanmar)
Burundi/66
Cambodia/69
Cameroon/71
Canada/72
Central African Republic/73
Chad/74
Chile/76
China/77
Colombia/80
Congo (Democratic Republic of the)/83
Congo (Republic of the)/86
Côte d’Ivoire/87
Croatia/89
Cuba/90
Cyprus/92
Czech Republic/93
Dominican Republic/94
East Timor (see Timor-Leste)
Ecuador/95
Egypt/96
El Salvador/99
Equatorial Guinea/100
Eritrea/102
Estonia/103
Ethiopia/104
Fiji/106
Finland/107
France/108
Georgia/111
Germany/113
Ghana/114
Greece/115
Guatemala/117
Guinea/119
Guinea-Bissau/119
Guyana/120
Haiti/121
Honduras/124
Hungary/125
India/127
Indonesia/129
Iran/131
Iraq/134
Ireland/138
Israel and the Occupied Territories/139
Italy/142
Jamaica/145
Japan/146
Jordan/147
Kazakstan/148
Kenya/149
Korea (Democratic People’s Republic of)/151
Korea (Republic of)/153
Kuwait/154
Kyrgyzstan/156
Laos/156
Latvia/158
Lebanon/159
Liberia/161
Libya/164
Lithuania/166
Macedonia/167
Malawi/169
Malaysia/170
Maldives/171
Malta/173
Mauritania/174
Mexico/175
Moldova/178
Mongolia/179
Morocco/Western Sahara/180
Mozambique/182
Myanmar/184
Namibia/186
Nepal/187
New Zealand/189
Nicaragua/190
Niger/191
Nigeria/191
Pakistan/194
Palestinian Authority/196
Papua New Guinea/198
Paraguay/199
Peru/200
Philippines/202
Poland/203
Portugal/204
Romania/206
Russian Federation/208
Rwanda/212
Saudi Arabia/214
Senegal/217
Serbia and Montenegro/218
Sierra Leone/221
Singapore/223
Slovakia/224
Slovenia/225
Solomon Islands/226
Somalia/227
South Africa/229
Spain/231
Sri Lanka/233
Sudan/235
Swaziland/238
Sweden/240
Switzerland/241
Syria/243
Taiwan/246
Tajikistan/247
Tanzania/248
Thailand/249
Timor-Leste/251
Togo/252
Trinidad and Tobago/253
Tunisia/254
Turkey/256
Turkmenistan/259
Uganda/261
Ukraine/263
United Arab Emirates/264
United Kingdom/265
United States of America/268
Uruguay/272
Uzbekistan/273
Venezuela/275
Viet Nam/276
Yemen/278
Zambia/280
Zimbabwe/281
 
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Matt25:
I received a leaflet from AI UK this weekend. It asked me to write to the Royal Nepalese Army on behalf of Nepali student Sanjiv Kumar Karna currently imprisoned. It also mentioned Chinese citizen Rebiya Kadeer recently released from jail in China and Timonsheno Pekmezi released in Albania as a result of AI campaigns. None of these campaigns are likely to be much reported on Fox.

I suppose you will think that somehow these below the radar AI campaigns which change lives around the world are less important than AI reports on Gauntanamo Bay. Human Rights activists however are less partisan than you. A wrong is a wrong whoever commits it.

On the subject of China you can see an AI report at web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA170012004 and you can see what AI Canada, to take a random example, is doing about it at amnesty.ca/china/actions/
But Matt, what about their strong support for Gay Pride marches (never mind their support for pro-abortion John Kerry)? Catholics cannot condone ‘Pride’ marches. We cannot be blinded by “we’re helping this person in China so that makes our support for gay rights ok”. I cancelled my membership because after a couple of years of seeing this stuff in their magazines I couldn’t stomach it any more. I don’t want to help them defend ‘gay rights’ (or more accurately, defend a sinful way of life). Yuk, in fact. I would rather subscribe to Jubilee Action which does similar work but with a very faithful Christian approach. AI was founded by an orthodox Catholic, who has since passed away (God rest his soul). I don’t want to hijack this thread away from Guantanamo but AI no longer fits the bill for me.
 
Matt:
I didn’t quote your AI annual report because of the length. What do the numbers after the country names represent?
 
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geezerbob:
Matt:
I didn’t quote your AI annual report because of the length. What do the numbers after the country names represent?
It means the members of AI would rather live in Somalia than the UK or USA 😉
 
The list appears to be alphabetical and the numbers increase in the same order.

My son was in Somalia and, judging from what he said about it, if they would rather live there, let 'em go!
 
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Thea:
But Matt, what about their strong support for Gay Pride marches (never mind their support for pro-abortion John Kerry)? .
As an organisation AI did not support any candidate in any election anywhere. Individual US members may have supported Kerry, so did around half the US population.

AI position on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered people is~
Amnesty International believes that LGBT people are entitled to the full range of human rights protections afforded to anyone else, and that governments have an obligation to protect and promote the basic human rights of LGBT people. Amnesty International considers people imprisoned solely because of their sexual orientation or gender identity to be prisoners of conscience.
**Amnesty International calls on governments to:**Repeal sodomy laws and all other laws criminalizing homosexuality, including discriminatory age of consent legislations. Enact non-discrimination laws that are inclusive of LGBT people. Condemn torture and ill-treatment, including forced “medical” treatment of LGBT people, and release immediately and unconditionally all LGBT prisoners of conscience who are imprisoned solely for their real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity. End impunity and protect LGBT people against violence in the community by acting with due diligence to promote and protect the human rights of LGBT people, including by taking seriously and responding properly to human rights abuses targeting LGBT people. Work to ensure that the protection and promotion of the human rights of LGBT people are effectively advanced within the United Nations (UN) and other international governmental bodies.
The Catechism says~
**2358 **The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. **Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. **These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
The AI position, that people should not be tortured or imprisoned because of their sexual orientation is compatible with Church teaching.
 
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geezerbob:
Matt:
I didn’t quote your AI annual report because of the length. What do the numbers after the country names represent?
Page numbers in the AI 2005 Annual Report
 
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gilliam:
It means the members of AI would rather live in Somalia than the UK or USA 😉
The AI Report on Somalia

amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/index.do

Somalia
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       [ http://emailimages.ctsg.com/ImageLibrary/Amnesty/WAC/action_11569.jpg](http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=11824)      **   Take Action**
Call for Investigation into Murder of Khadar Osman Dhabar in Somaliland Following a peaceful protest up to a hundred Gaboye demonstrators are held incommunicado without charge, either in Hargeisa central prison in the capital of Somaliland or in unauthorized and secret police Criminal Investigation Department (CID) detention centers where they are at risk of torture. They had been protesting at the shooting of Khadar Osman Dhabar by a police officer. [ More Actions » (http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/actions.do)
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                                                                                                               **        Latest News**
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256FC40058E929): Transitional government must address human rights issues in order to be viable             
    
    
    
                                               Mar 16, 2005
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                          [Somaliland](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256F6D0045D123): 16-year-old girl jailed in grossly unfair espionage trial should be released or re-tried             
    
    
    
                                               Dec 16, 2004
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                          [SOMALILAND](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256F5C00502782): Amnesty International concerned about 16-year old girl's trial and rape allegations, and summary imprisonment of her defence lawyers 
    
    
    
                                               Nov 29, 2004
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256EDD00600006): Urgent Human Rights Message to the Peace Talks in Kenya             
    
    
    
                                               Jul 27, 2004
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                          [Somalia/Somaliland](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=80256AB9000584F680256D650050010A): Political leaders must recognize the legitimate role of human rights defenders             
    
    
    
                                               Jul 16, 2003
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                          [Somalia/Somaliland](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=8FAFB6CDC2B103B485256D6B005571FE): Political leaders must recognize the legitimate role of human rights defenders             
    
    
    
                                               Jul 16, 2003
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           [*More News »* (http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/news.do)
** Latest Reports**
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=EDC10EAE0F7A5CEE80256F8F0047B6A6): Urgent need for effective human rights protection under the new transitional government             
    
    
    
                                               Mar 16, 2005
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=B0B8994CF8B6B39380256ED7004284BB): Open Letter: Somali Human Rights Day, 22 July 2004             
    
    
    
                                               Jun 30, 2004
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=2B87A0E400D67FE380256D6700680228): Somali Human Rights Day Message (22 July 2003) from Amnesty International's Secretary General )             
    
    
    
                                               Jul 21, 2003
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                          [Somalia](http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/somalia/document.do?id=88B65F82697E879585256D6B00557204): Somali Human Rights Day Message (22 July 2003) from Amnesty International's Secretary General )             
    
    
    
                                               Jul 21, 2003
On the USA see web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510832005?open&of=ENG-USA
 
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Matt25:
I suppose you will think that somehow these below the radar AI campaigns which change lives around the world are less important than AI reports on Gauntanamo Bay. Human Rights activists however are less partisan than you.
You seem to make all your replies rather personal in their attack. Why are human rights activists “less partisan” than me? Because I dare to suggest that AI’s most public and heavily promoted campaigns are directed against the United States and that AI’s campaigns on behalf of violations in non Western countries are more muted, are, as you would say “below the radar”.
If AI starts using the SAME level of denunciation and criticism of human rights abuses, no matter where they occur, then I will have respect for the organisation.
 
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rjs1:
You seem to make all your replies rather personal in their attack. Why are human rights activists “less partisan” than me? Because I dare to suggest that AI’s most public and heavily promoted campaigns are directed against the United States and that AI’s campaigns on behalf of violations in non Western countries are more muted, are, as you would say “below the radar”.
If AI starts using the SAME level of denunciation and criticism of human rights abuses, no matter where they occur, then I will have respect for the organisation.
AI does not decide which stories are reported on Fox News. The Corporate media in the USA reports stories about the USA but not about Bangladesh or Eritrea. You blame AI because the corporate media doesnt report their activities in full. Thats just foolish. Remember 30 000 children die of poverty every day of the year, for year after year. None of these children are American so their deaths are seldom reported. You could blame them for not getting their suffering on TV. Alternatively you could question the agenda of the huge transnational corporations that own the major media outlets around the world.
 
Many people mightn’t know this, but before 9/11, Amnesty International repeatedly castigated Saddam Hussein for human rights abuse. However, after 9/11, the organization became silent about Saddam’s rape, torture, and butchery of his people. AI didn’t want to encourage war against him. Clearly, Amnesty International would have prefered that Saddam continue to rape, torture, and butcher hundreds of thousands of people. It is clear whose side those hypocrites have taken.

Ryan King
 
Ryan King:
Many people mightn’t know this, but before 9/11, Amnesty International repeatedly castigated Saddam Hussein for human rights abuse. However, after 9/11, the organization became silent about Saddam’s rape, torture, and butchery of his people. AI didn’t want to encourage war against him. Clearly, Amnesty International would have prefered that Saddam continue to rape, torture, and butcher hundreds of thousands of people. It is clear whose side those hypocrites have taken.

Ryan King
Hey, you wouldn’t want them to work themselves out of a job, would you?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

I have a friend who says, “When an organization claims to be a non-profit, you should ask ‘Non-profit for WHO?’ Most people who run these big-time non-profits make a bigger salary than the President of the United States.”
 
AI went over the top in their diction and syntax concerning GITMO. They are trying to equate the “mistakes” in judgement made by some US military personnel to the rape, torture, and murder that occured in the gulags and that Hussein inflicted on innocents during his reign. That is why the comparison is “absurd”.

AI is tapping in to the now faddish “hate America” movement. Whether or not we deserve to be hated is up for debate in a separate thread. If AI really wanted to be taken seriously, they should not have let their emotions and obvious political bias take control of their rhetoric and meaning. What you are reading and hearing from AI, now, is nothing more than back-pedalling, spin, and damage control. They will come out of this looking like just another internal organ for the liberal Democrat party. I say we punish them by taking away their subscriptions to The New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Time Magazine, Newsweek, etc…
 
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Matt25:
AI does not decide which stories are reported on Fox News. The Corporate media in the USA reports stories about the USA but not about Bangladesh or Eritrea. You blame AI because the corporate media doesnt report their activities in full. Thats just foolish. Remember 30 000 children die of poverty every day of the year, for year after year. None of these children are American so their deaths are seldom reported. You could blame them for not getting their suffering on TV. Alternatively you could question the agenda of the huge transnational corporations that own the major media outlets around the world.
Matt25,

Their only agenda is to make money. Unfortunately, they only show things that they think Americans want to watch based on past broadcast experience. I wouldn’t read some larger, conspiratorial theory into it.

The only way to get good international news is to search for it - preferably from multiple sources to get the different viewpoints on a given report. Very few are willing or have the time to do it.

God Bless,

Robert.
 
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Matt25:
AI does not decide which stories are reported on Fox News. The Corporate media in the USA reports stories about the USA but not about Bangladesh or Eritrea. You blame AI because the corporate media doesnt report their activities in full. Thats just foolish. Remember 30 000 children die of poverty every day of the year, for year after year. None of these children are American so their deaths are seldom reported. You could blame them for not getting their suffering on TV. Alternatively you could question the agenda of the huge transnational corporations that own the major media outlets around the world.
No. I don’t blame AI because the corporate media doesn’t report their activities in full. I DO blame AI, as I have said before, because their most prominent campaigns, at least in my country, have definitely been against western nations. We have two left wing media outlets in our city, neither of which by any classification could be called part of the corporate media, and they give the same AI news as the other media.
 
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