The 3 Beast of Rev. 13

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**spauline, thank you for submitting the ‘diabolical trinity’. Please allow me to put it in the context of Rev. 13.

I. Satan – Satan does not act along. He has his disciples, who are the false prophets
(2nd beast).

II. the Beast – Represented as the World Ruling System that began in Babylon-Persia-Greece-Rome . . . . on up until today. I believe the seat of the beast power today is in America – (1st beast).

III. The False Logos – fulfill the flesh vs. crucify the flesh (Luke 9:23) (3rd beast).

It is my intent within this thread to assist others in recognizing the character of the beast. Your post has been most enlightening. Thank you.

I Thess. 5:2, 4, 6 – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night – But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief. – Therefore let us not sleep (spiritually) as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Code: 
* watch - Greek: gregoreuo - keep awake; stand alert or watch.
**
 
tabcom said:
**No. I am not a Preterist.

From preterist.org: “We believe Scripture teaches Christ would come again in that first century generation while some of His original disciples were still alive, to judge the living and the dead.”

There is much I could say that argues against the preterist view. However, I don’t want to get off topic.**
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Tabcom,
That is a rather narrow view of Preterism… and while I do not subscribe only to Preterism, the point of keeping Revelation in the context of its first century audience is invaluable, and these ideas are expressed very fully in Preterism, it may be worth your time to take a look.

Brandon
 
tabcom said:
**spauline, thank you for submitting the ‘diabolical trinity’. Please allow me to put it in the context of Rev. 13.

I. Satan** – Satan does not act along. He has his disciples, who are the false prophets
(2nd beast).

II. the Beast – Represented as the World Ruling System that began in Babylon-Persia-Greece-Rome . . . . on up until today. I believe the seat of the beast power today is in America – (1st beast).

III. The False Logos – fulfill the flesh vs. crucify the flesh (Luke 9:23) (3rd beast).

It is my intent within this thread to assist others in recognizing the character of the beast. Your post has been most enlightening. Thank you.

I Thess. 5:2, 4, 6 – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night – But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief. – Therefore let us not sleep (spiritually) as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Code: 
* watch - Greek: gregoreuo - keep awake; stand alert or watch.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that the beast has a parallel in Daniel. Also, how do you determine Rome to be part of the beast, and when you speak of Rome, are you talking of Pagan Rome, Christian Rome, or both?

Thanks
 
SDA2RC said:
. . . how do you determine Rome to be part of the beast . . . ?Thanks
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** You are refering to the 1st Beast . . .

Rev. 13:1

Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads

This is idiomatic language. In order for us, living in the twenty-first century to understand it, we need to know what ‘the sea’, ‘horns’, ‘heads’ ment at the time that John is writing this. In the ancient world, the sea was a very dangerous place. If you were at sea and lost sight of land, you were in fear for you life. Figuratively speaking, to describe something rising out of the sea would cause one to tremble in fear. Horns is a metaphor for man’s authority over a city or nation. Heads is a metaphor for a capital city through out the OT.

I want to make this point as clear as possible before moving forward, The 1st beast is not literal. It is spiritual. If it is spiritual, and it is, then we need to learn how to recognize its mark (character). to be cont…

**
 
SDA2RC said:
Do you believe that the beast has a parallel in Daniel. Thanks
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**
Yes. Rev. 13:1 parallel’s Dan 7:3.

"And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another.

The first beast of Rev. 13:1 also parallel’s Dan 7:7 with its ‘ten horns’. A horn is a metaphor for a capital city or empire.

4 beast of Daniel:

1st beast: like a lion → babylon
2nd beast: like a bear → persia
3rd beast: like a leopard → greece
4th beast: having iron teeth → rome

The 1st beast of Rev. 13:1 is a composite of the 4 beast that Daniel describes.

The 1st beast did not begin in babylon. And it does not end with the Roman Empire. The 1st beast has always been here. It will remain a part of this world until the end of time.

The 1st beast can be found in the garden when Adam and Eve threw out God’s Authority and replaced it with the doctrine of the serpent. **
 
tabcom said:
Yes. Rev. 13:1 parallel’s Dan 7:3.

"And four great beasts were coming up from the sea, different from one another.

**The first beast of Rev. 13:1 also parallel’s Dan 7:7 with its ‘ten horns’. A horn is a metaphor for a capital city or empire. **

4 beast of Daniel:

1st beast: like a lion → babylon
2nd beast: like a bear → persia
3rd beast: like a leopard → greece
4th beast: having iron teeth → rome

**The 1st beast of Rev. 13:1 is a composite of the 4 beast that Daniel describes. **

The 1st beast did not begin in babylon. And it does not end with the Roman Empire. The 1st beast has always been here. It will remain a part of this world until the end of time.

**The 1st beast can be found in the garden when Adam and Eve threw out God’s Authority and replaced it with the doctrine of the serpent. **
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Yes, even though you may not be Catholic tabcom,

you have the right idea here. For sin in human history has been manifest from the beginning, starting with the Fall, and has repeated manifested itself many times since then, not just in Pagan Rome, and not just at the very end of the world. but in Catholicism, we would make it as general as it can be: the great STAGES of sin from the beginning of the world until its end. Toward that end, from personal study, it seems highly likely that the delineation of the heads in Chapter 17 seems to rather straightforward: there will truly be eight total primary manifestations of sinful resistance to the Plan of God, starting with the Fall and all the way to the Great Apostasy. It is interesting, for just as “five have fallen” is referenced in that same Chapter 17, so some Fathers explicitly state, “Five are the ages of the Old Law.”
 
**The character (or mark) of the 1st beast can first be found in:

Gen 3:1 -
Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”

Afterwards, the first democracy was created, ‘of Adam, by Eve, for Satan’.
**
 
Didn’t Fr. Miceli write a book on Revelation, Antichrist and such?
 
spauline said:
Yes, even though you may not be Catholic tabcom,

you have the right idea here. For sin in human history has been manifest from the beginning, starting with the Fall, and has repeated manifested itself many times since then, not just in Pagan Rome, and not just at the very end of the world.
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**How evil was Eve’s sin? There were no nightclubs, no drugs, no other men with which she could be unfaithful (adultery), no drinking, no smoking, no one to envy, no one to hate (except God), no vices of any kind. What was this great sin with which the human race is continually separated from God. Eve merely ignored God’s commandment when he said, “Thou shalt not” She said to herself, “I will make my own rules; I will interpret for myself what God meant.”

I John 2:15,16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the father is not in him. For “all that is in the world”, (everything that Eve saw in the tree, distributing to herself) - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the father, but is of the world.

Let’s break that down a little more . . .

“All that is in the world”

I John 2:16 Gen 3:6
  1. The lust of the flesh ------- > 1. She saw a tree that was good for food (lust of flesh)
  2. The lust of the eyes ------- > 2. The tree was pleasant to the eyes
  3. The pride of life -------> 3. It was the tree that made her feel like a god.
That is the character, or mark, of the 1st beast.**
 
tabcom said:
**How evil was Eve’s sin? There were no nightclubs, no drugs, no other men with which she could be unfaithful (adultery), no drinking, no smoking, no one to envy, no one to hate (except God), no vices of any kind. What was this great sin with which the human race is continually separated from God. Eve merely ignored God’s commandment when he said, “Thou shalt not” She said to herself, “I will make my own rules; I will interpret for myself what God meant.” **

I John 2:15,16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the father is not in him. For “all that is in the world”, (everything that Eve saw in the tree, distributing to herself) - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the father, but is of the world.

Let’s break that down a little more . . .

"All that is in the world"

I John 2:16 Gen 3:6

1. The lust of the flesh ------- > 1. She saw a tree that was good for food (lust of flesh)

2. The lust of the eyes ------- > 2. The tree was pleasant to the eyes

3. The pride of life -------> 3. It was the tree that made her feel like a god.

That is the character, or mark, of the 1st beast.
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well, for a deeper analysis of what sin consists in, you might read this:

Darth Vader, Lust, and Hell

and also this, if I haven’t already put it forth:

The Lamb, the True Logos, and the Second Beast, the False Logos
 
spauline said:
. . . for a deeper analysis of what sin consists in, you might read this: . . .
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**
I know there are alot of people that never studied the Book of Revelation. It is very difficult to grasp in its metaphoric language and OT references. It is my intention within this thread to present the 3 beast of Rev. 13 in as basic terms as possible. By breaking down the metaphoric language that John uses, this helps the student recognize the signs.

Mat 16:3
"And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

The word revelation comes from Apokalupsis. I’ve always liked the description of Apokalupsis as ‘ripping the cover off of something and revealing what lies beneath’.

Thank you spauline for helping take the cover off.

**
 
tabcom said:
I know there are alot of people that never studied the Book of Revelation. It is very difficult to grasp in its metaphoric language and OT references. It is my intention within this thread to present the 3 beast of Rev. 13 in as basic terms as possible. By breaking down the metaphoric language that John uses, this helps the student recognize the signs.

Mat 16:3
"And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

The word revelation comes from Apokalupsis. I’ve always liked the description of Apokalupsis as ‘ripping the cover off of something and revealing what lies beneath’.

**Thank you spauline for helping take the cover off. **
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You are welcome, tabcom!
😃
 
**Having outlined that the first beast is an ‘it’, not a ‘him’; and that ‘it’ is the worshiping of self above God, let’s move on to the character (mark) of the 2nd beast . . . .

False Prophet vs. Jesus

Luke 6:26 -
Woe (ouai - cry of grief and damnation) unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Ac 13:6 -
When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,

Re 16:13 -
And I saw {coming} out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;

Re 19:20 -
And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Re 20:10 -
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

to be continued . . .
**
 
**The 2nd beast are false prophets. They stand oppose to Christ’s teachings. They teach the doctrine of the devil (1st beast). The devil’s doctrine is found in the very meaning of his name and in the text of scripture.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils

If there is a “doctrine of devils” being preached at the latter times (husteron- eventually, last of all times) we need to define it so that we can warn the sheep that they will not be seduced.

Seducing is the Greek word planos meaning an imposter, misleader, deceiver. Only impostors masquerading as ministers of righteousness can seduce men by this devils’ doctrine. The devils’ doctrine (1st beast) started in the Garden of Eden. The Serpent (2nd beast) preached it to Eve beguiling her. He did not come breathing fire and smoke saying that God was not God. He merely told Eve that God didn’t mean what he said. She could have all that the world had to offer. This is the very meaning of the word Devil. There are two words in the Greek for the word devil:
Code: 
* Devil - diabolos meaning slanderer or false accuser (Satan was accusing God of lying about eating of the tree). This word is a construction of two syllables:
* dia - meaning the channel of an act, through or thereby
* ballo - to throw, cast out, strike or throw down
Satan “casts God down” off the throne of a man’s life seducing him by “accusing” God of lying concerning his commandments. God says, “Thou shalt not --”. With smooth easy seductive words Satan says, “God doesn’t really mean that. You can have and do those things if you want to.” He says in smooth soft bewitching tones (Rom 16:17,18), “You don’t have to take your cross daily and die to the flesh. You can have the world and all it has to offer.” This takes us to the second Greek word for “devil”.
Code: 
* daimonion - daemonic being; deity or god (little g) this is a derivative of the word
* daimon - our word demon which is from the root
* daio - this means "TO DISTRIBUTE FORTUNES"!!!
At the end of time this doctrine is going to run rampant among seducing preachers who call themselves “ministers of righteousness”. They will preach "another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel.**
 
**Yes, there are 2 Jesus’ in the Bible. There is the one that says take up your cross and die daily (Luke 9:23). And there is the one that says that you can fulfilll your flesh (2nd beast).

Paul gives a detailed guide to identify the 2nd beast . . . .

II Cor 11:3,4,13-15 But I fear lest by any means as the serpent beguiled (exapatao - seduce wholly) Eve through his subtility (panourgia - shrewd, clever, cunning), so your minds should be corrupted (phtheiro - deprave, ruin, defile) from the simplicity (haplos-singleness, implies pure or holy) that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth “another Jesus”-- (this is not the Jesus of the Bible that says we must take up our cross daily, deny (aparneomai - utterly contradict) ourselves, forsake all that we have or we cannot be his disciple - Luke 9:23;14:27,33) --whom we have not preached, or if ye receive “another spirit”, (small s–the Holy Spirit is Truth - John 14:17, 15:26, & 16:13, 1 John 5:6-- They will preach another truth, which is not the truth at all, but a lie disguised as the truth) – which ye have not received, or “another gospel”,–the true gospel is death to the flesh/self and the resurrection daily in our mortal bodies - 1 Cor 15:1-4, 2 Cor 4:10-12,16,17 - The “other Jesus” requires no death to self, no daily cross, no self denial, but rather, this Jesus does not resurrect in us daily – instead he says to us that we can “distribute fortunes” (daemon) to ourselves thus ruling our own flesh, setting our own rules and overthrowing (diabolos) the law of God in our lives – this gospel is no gospel, that fulfills the flesh.) It is the devil’s counterfeit gospel.-which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. For such are false apostles deceitful (dolios- to live by trickery, decoy, guile) workers, transforming (metaschematizo - disguise or change) themselves into the apostles of Christ (It is the devil disguised as Jesus)–but it is another Jesus. And no marvel - for Satan himself is transformed (metaschematizo - disguised) into an angel of light… Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed (metaschematizo - disguised) as the ministers of righteousness: whose end shall be according to their works. (They will pass themselves off as truth-sayers when they are soothsayers.)**
 
tabcom said:
**Continuing with the importance of the gender of a word, let’s look at: **

Eph 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her.

Christ - masciline
Church - feminine

Christ=husband
Church=wife

**The English word church comes from the greek word ekklesia (ek-klay-see’-ah) – which means to be called out. **

The wife of Christ is the church, which is called out of the material world to reside with Him, spiritually.

The beast, because it is an it, not a she, has no spiritual life.

2 Peter 2:12
But these people, like irrational animals born by nature for capture and destruction, revile things that they do not understand, and in their destruction they will also be destroyed,

**The English word animals is a translation from the original greek word Zoon. Drop the ‘n’ and we get our word zoo. Zoon is Neuter Gender. Also, irrational is translated from the greek word Alogos. Logos is more commonly translated into word in the new testement. When you put an ‘a’ before a greek word, it gives it an opposite meaning. **

Joh 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Hence, the beast was not given the Word or Logos. The beast is not with God. It stands opposed. It hates what it does not understand, it wants to destroy.

**to be continued . . . **
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Therion (= beast) is a neuter noun, true, but so are korasion (= damsel) in Mark, & pneuma (=spirit).​

The grammatical gender of a noun is no guide to what it means - Christ is our sophia in 1 Cor. 1.30, & our diakaiosune: both of these are feminine in grammatical gender; it doesn’t follow that He is ##
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Therion (= beast) is a neuter noun, true, but so are korasion (= damsel) in Mark,​

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**
Thank you for a most excellent point!

I want to discuss each point in detail.

Mark 5:42
Immediately the girl got up and began to walk, for she was twelve years old. And immediately they were completely astounded.

Mark 6:28
and brought his head on a platter, and gave it to the girl; and the girl gave it to her mother.

As you correctly pointed out, korasion is neuter gender, in the original text. I would also add that ‘she’ from verse 5:42 is the word etos, also neuter gender. In addtion, ‘her’ is the word autos, which is the common word in the NT for self.

Therefore, a proper translation of these two passages would be the following:

Mark 5:42
Immediately the child got up and began to walk, for the child was twelve years old. And immediately they were completely astounded.

Mark 6:28
and brought his head on a platter, and gave it to the child; and the child gave it to her mother.**
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

The grammatical gender of a noun is no guide to what it means - Christ is our sophia in 1 Cor. 1.30, & our diakaiosune: both of these are feminine in grammatical gender; it doesn’t follow that He is​

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**With respect to your citation, I simply must study it in detail and report back on it. For now, I’m providing the link for the
Original Greek Text 1 Cor 1:30.

**
 
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