The 33,000 denominations LIE

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myfavoritmartin said:
Here’s a good point to make to you Polo since I know you better an know that your a fair debater who doesn’t just quote mine…Aren’t you in the least offended by unsubstantiated forms of apologetics especially when decietful tactics are clear? Doesn’t it give honest workmen like you a black eye so to speak?
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Yes and no. The source is there for you to see in the PhilVaz link above. So I don’t think anyone citing that is necessarily aware of the method used to determine the final number. On the other hand, if one wishes to count any “non-denominational” group or even individual who sets himself as “The Bible and Me” as the source of faith, then the 33,000 is actually underinflated. Because they are, by definition, “denominating” from everyone else.

Your point is no less taken, and if you click the link in my last post, you can see how long this was discussed, and I think you’ll see that figure either qualified or used less in the future. Personally, I like to use “thousands”, because arguing over 9,000 or 33,000 or 100,000 is a distinction without a difference, when the point is to demonstrate the scandal of division.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Here’s a good point to make to you Polo since I know you better an know that your a fair debater who doesn’t just quote mine…Aren’t you in the least offended by unsubstantiated forms of apologetics especially when decietful tactics are clear? Doesn’t it give honest workmen like you a black eye so to speak?
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Are you suggesting that no one else but you 2 are fair debators. How is asserting that there are so many denominations deceitful??? What do you have against Catholics man? You still haven’t answered any questions that I have asked. All that you have asserted is that I am a liar and deceitful
 
tobinatorstark said:
Decit from the truth that the Catholic Church is the Church that Christ founded and that he is the body and we are its members??? Or that Catholics are full of decit???
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In particular ANYONE who uses the 33,000 protestants denominations as an apologetic is deceitful and a liar.
 
Dude, answer the question how is it deceitful? Or are you just trying to cause trouble??? Let’s face it, you don’t know how it is deceitful, you just tend to think that anyone that doesn’t believe what you believe is deceitful.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Is there ever going to be a point where Catholics stop propagating this falsehood?
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You are wrong yet again. The number is the result of Protestant research. It is good solid scholarship. It is from the “World Christian Encyclopedia”, by Protestant scholar David B. Barrettand and published by Oxford University Press

Hope this helps dispell another one of your LIEs.
 
Grace and Peace,

Yeah, I don’t believe this is true either… I count different denominations by how many different ‘Chain-referencing Systems’ are being developed by differing groups. That is a truer measure of the differing schools of interpretation among Protestants.
 
Ignatius said:
You are wrong yet again. The number is the result of Protestant research. It is good solid scholarship. It is from the **“World Christian Encyclopedia”, **by Protestant scholar David B. Barrettand and published by Oxford University Press

Hope this helps dispell another one of your LIEs.
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I know where it’s from and I linked** that page **out of that book which I got from Steve Rays link which specifically says protestant denominational 9490.
 
In essence the argument is true. I have little doubt there are at least that number of protestant based denominations in the world, And that is counting a denomination as a group of ten or more worshippers who decide their own basis of Faith, and select their own leadership, independent of higher worldly authority.

If a group cannot accept joint leadership with another group, it is a sepparate denomination. Since most of these groups decide their own Faith agenda, within certain limits, the argument is valid that they use sola scriptura to come up with often widely differing ideas of the Church and of the Christian Faith.

For example they can disagree on:
Should there be infant or Adult baptism?
Does baptism confer Grace or is it just a symbol?
Is our destiny governed by Calvinist Predestination or Arminian Free Will
Once Saved Always Saved?
Is there assurance of Salvation?
Can one lose Salvation?
Is Salvation a one-off event or a lifelong journey?
Does hell exist?
Can one be saved outside the Christian Church?
Should images be used in worship?
Does the Church replace Israel?
Is Divorce permissible
Is Abortion murder?
Is prophecy still given?
Are there still Miracles?
Are miracles guaranteed if you have enough faith?
Will there be a pre-trib Rapture?
Premillenialism or Postmillenialism?
Will there even be a millennium?
Speaking in Tongues - valid or deception?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit - is it real?
Are demons real?
What role do Works have in Salvation?
What is the Nature and Function of Sacraments?
Is Jesus physically present in Communion?
Is communion a mystic event or a remembrance ceremony?
Are the Sacraments necessary to salvation?
What form of Authority should exist in the Church?
Does a minister need to be ordained?
What does ordination confer?
Is Apostolic Succession necessary?
Can women be Pastors?
Can homosexuals be admitted to Church?
Does God promise Christians material prosperity?

There are thousands of permutations of these and other disagreements.

So, which Church is the one truly being guided by the Spirit of Truth? Since the Spirit does not teach error there can only be ONE. So which Church is it that teaches the true interpretation of scripture? And how do we know which one it is?
 
Showing differing views on things but with the same basic doctrine is no different than latin or chaldean rites…
It does NOT substantiate 33,000 churches.
 
myfavoritmartin said:
I know where it’s from and I linked** that page **out of that book which I got from Steve Rays link which specifically says protestant denominational 9490.
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the link provided may be Catholic but the sources of its research was not. But then again you still can’t give me a reason why it is deceitful? Oops I asked again. I am guessing that you can’t answer questions.
 
Here is a quote from Wikipedia under Protestantism:

There are “over 33,000 denominations in 238 countries” and every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations.[7] According to David Barrett’s study (1970), there are 8,196 denominations within Protestantism. There are about 800 million Protestants worldwide,[8] among approximately 1.5 billion Christians.[9][10] These include 170 million in North America, 160 million in Africa, 120 million in Europe, 70 million in Latin America, 60 million in Asia, and 10 million in Oceania.

In my lifetime as a former Protestant, I have been the a victim of collateral damage in two church splits - and I’m talking about two different churches altogether. The 33,000 is a plausible number. From one of the churches that I attended for 20 years, there are 4 different churches within a 10 year span - each taking members from the other. It’s quite sad to see so many of my friends/extended family seeking that Christian Utopia when they can simply find overflowing grace in the Most Holy and Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist.

While we are on the topic of denominations/schism, let us prayer even more urgently for the re-unification of the Catholic Church (West) with the Eastern Orthodox. I believe that God’s hand is at work in this. As the late Pope John Paul II said, the Church needs to breathe with two lungs (East & West). The installation of the new Patriarch may very well be the key that God will use.

God Bless
DD2007 said:
33,000 denominations? That’s not possible. How many Christians are there really in the world?

I found this simple wiki link. It lists nowhere close to 33,000 denominations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
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tobinatorstark said:
the link provided may be Catholic but the sources of its research was not. But then again you still can’t give me a reason why it is deceitful? Oops I asked again. I am guessing that you can’t answer questions.
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i’ll try once again with numbers…
1.) The catholics are the ones citing the source as to where they got the 33,000 denomination number.

2.) 33,000 includes 242 catholic 887orthodox,9490 protestant plus cults like JW and mormon and a number of other titles all totaling up less than that amount…They blame SS for this and say it caused that number yet have no source for it.

3.) cited source quotes protestant at 9490

4.) apologist citing the source for their answer to how they came up with the number 33,000 NEVER says it they are off by 300%

YET those folks know and continue to use it even as recent as a month or 2 ago.
 
Have you taken a gander in your yellow pages under “Churches”? So do these all share the same core beliefs? Are these beliefs defined? Or is it what binds them as one Church is the agreement on that ambiguous ever moving and changing “essentials” Or is the only thing in agreement (“essentials”) on is “anything but Catholic” If that is the case and it is the “core” belief what binds all these non-Catholic Churches….then I suppose there is less then the 33,000 you speak of as the lie.
 
tobinatorstark said:
I stand corrected.
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There are NOT reformed denomination we are all CHRISTs church. With different practices but the same view on justification!
kinda like you guys and all your rites

If you guys were so united who did 54% of the catholics in america vote in a pro abortion president???Against the wishes of the church>?
 
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