The altar

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JKirkLVNV said:
I’ve seen old churches were every available space was crammed with something, seemingly without regard to how one object might fit or blend with the objects around it or the unity of the whole. That’s the kind of thing I think is unfortunate. The late pope also doesn’t seem to be endorsing a single style, ie, roccoco over byzantine or romanesque or gothic, nor a the idea of a altar against the wall as opposed to a free-standing altar. And a “newer” altar can express and emphasize that “one thing” as well as some of the older ones.
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These are still old style and in the context in which he expressed himself—our late Pope was refering to our old Altars.
The “one thing” the new freestanding Altars seem to emphasize is the community aspect and a table.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
And the reason I posted the pic of my parish altar was that I was asking an honest question. Can’t a TLM be offered from that altar, if the tabernacle was under the crucifix?
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Thanks for posting a pic of your church. Reading your posts I wondered a little a bit about your church, it is quite beautiful.
Do people ever put casino chips in the collection basket?

I wish my parish looked a bit like yours, mine has been stripped down a little, to be a concrete meeting hall, though not as bad as many churches here in California. My church is probably the most traditional of the newer churches in my diocese, though we do get some wacky stuff that strays into heresy from time to time. Our church isn’t ugly, it is just kinda plain.
I don’t like clutter either, but beauty and cohesiveness should always be a part of the design, unless it is impossible to do like, in the army or something.

Regarding altars, thanks for the video that is kinda neat how fast they can make a table look like an altar.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Walking_Home said:
These are still old style and in the context in which he expressed himself—our late Pope was refering to our old Altars.
The “one thing” the new freestanding Altars seem to emphasize is the community aspect and a table.
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That’s one opinion. And the altar at St. Peter’s is free standing, as are altars used for Mass in St. Peter’s square.
 
scylla said:
Thanks for posting a pic of your church. Reading your posts I wondered a little a bit about your church, it is quite beautiful.
Do people ever put casino chips in the collection basket?

I wish my parish looked a bit like yours, mine has been stripped down a little, to be a concrete meeting hall, though not as bad as many churches here in California. My church is probably the most traditional of the newer churches in my diocese, though we do get some wacky stuff that strays into heresy from time to time. Our church isn’t ugly, it is just kinda plain.
I don’t like clutter either, but beauty and cohesiveness should always be a part of the design, unless it is impossible to do like, in the army or something.

Regarding altars, thanks for the video that is kinda neat how fast they can make a table look like an altar.

God Bless
Scylla
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Thank you! Our old pastor went to a lot of trouble to make it look Catholic. No, no casino chips make it into our offering plates, but that does happen at the Cathedral, which is on the Strip. One of the priests makes a weekly run to cash them in.

You know, in terms of a diversity of designs, what Mother Angelica did with her monastic chapel is beautiful. It’s all overlaid in gold, there seems to be a unity of design, etc. And it’s lavish, I’m not against lavish. It’s a free standing altar, in front of that gorgeous reredos, all in gold. Did you know that the interior of the tabernacle is encrusted solidly with diamonds? The only One who sees it besides the priest is our Eucharistic Lord. I love that! We can’t all replicate that, nor should we (it should be unique), but we can all do our best. All I’m saying is that our best should be OUR best, not someone elses, AND that all the altars DON’T have to look like that. Also, more is not always better, if one can only get tacky angels, better no angels, and one should look at a “unity of design” rather than just stuffing junk in there.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Thank you! Our old pastor went to a lot of trouble to make it look Catholic. No, no casino chips make it into our offering plates, but that does happen at the Cathedral, which is on the Strip. One of the priests makes a weekly run to cash them in.

You know, in terms of a diversity of designs, what Mother Angelica did with her monastic chapel is beautiful. It’s all overlaid in gold, there seems to be a unity of design, etc. And it’s lavish, I’m not against lavish. It’s a free standing altar, in front of that gorgeous reredos, all in gold. Did you know that the interior of the tabernacle is encrusted solidly with diamonds? The only One who sees it besides the priest is our Eucharistic Lord. I love that! We can’t all replicate that, nor should we (it should be unique), but we can all do our best. All I’m saying is that our best should be OUR best, not someone elses, AND that all the altars DON’T have to look like that. Also, more is not always better, if one can only get tacky angels, better no angels, and one should look at a “unity of design” rather than just stuffing junk in there.
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When the Moto Propio comes out…the free standing Altar will be gone at Mother Angelicas.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Thank you! Our old pastor went to a lot of trouble to make it look Catholic. No, no casino chips make it into our offering plates, but that does happen at the Cathedral, which is on the Strip. **One of the priests makes a weekly run to cash them in. **

.
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The Casinos refer to thes Priest as the “ChipMonk”
 
Ham1 said:
Why?
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Mother is a traditionalist. They complained when she went back to the old habit and when they started using latin.

Some of the Nuns attended a TLM till the Bishop there put it an end to it. He said…You are own your own, no more.

Some people travel to my parish from EWTN to attend Mass on Sunday occasionally.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Thank you! Our old pastor went to a lot of trouble to make it look Catholic. No, no casino chips make it into our offering plates, but that does happen at the Cathedral, which is on the Strip. One of the priests makes a weekly run to cash them in.

You know, in terms of a diversity of designs, what Mother Angelica did with her monastic chapel is beautiful. It’s all overlaid in gold, there seems to be a unity of design, etc. And it’s lavish, I’m not against lavish. It’s a free standing altar, in front of that gorgeous reredos, all in gold. Did you know that the interior of the tabernacle is encrusted solidly with diamonds? The only One who sees it besides the priest is our Eucharistic Lord. I love that! We can’t all replicate that, nor should we (it should be unique), but we can all do our best. All I’m saying is that our best should be OUR best, not someone elses, AND that all the altars DON’T have to look like that. Also, more is not always better, if one can only get tacky angels, better no angels, and one should look at a “unity of design” rather than just stuffing junk in there.
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Maybe that was the best those people could do where you say the Altar was all junked up. I’m sure God loved them for it and appreciated making His Altar as beautiful as they could afford. Maybe you could write them about your concerns and offer your financial assistance to them in purchasing new statutes, and redoing the Altar and Tabernacle in gold and diamonds.
 
Uxor said:
Maybe that was the best those people could do where you say the Altar was all junked up. I’m sure God loved them for it and appreciated making His Altar as beautiful as they could afford. Maybe you could write them about your concerns and offer your financial assistance to them in purchasing new statutes, and redoing the Altar and Tabernacle in gold and diamonds.
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“Unity of the whole,” Uxor. Think about it. And my point was that altars don’t have to look like that one to be “reverent.” That’s what I meant when I said I would hate for that to be a standard.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
“Unity of the whole,” Uxor. Think about it. And my point was that altars don’t have to look like that one to be “reverent.” That’s what I meant when I said I would hate for that to be a standard.
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So if that Altar, or that type of Altar became the norm what would be your attitude toward the Church?
 
Uxor said:
So if that Altar, or that type of Altar became the norm what would be your attitude toward the Church?
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I hope it would be better than that exhibited by some who cannot stand that the Church has free standing altars.
 
Mercy, the “altar-ego’s” are getting deep "round here

(didn’t wanna take sides, so I figured I’d get both mad at me )

😛
 
JKirkLVNV said:
That’s one opinion. And the altar at St. Peter’s is free standing, as are altars used for Mass in St. Peter’s square.
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I am pretty sure our late Pope knew about the free standing Altar at St. Peters—yet he still wrote what he did. You should know by now—the wrecking of our churches and Altars–it is all part of the “spirit of Vat II”.

Oh—JPII in Ecclesia de Eucharistia went on to say this:

“It must be lamented that, especially in the years following the post-conciliar liturgical reform, as a result of a misguided sense of creativity and adaptation there have been a number of abuses which have been a source of suffering for many. A certain reaction against “formalism” has led some, especially in certain regions, to consider the “forms” chosen by the Church’s great liturgical tradition and her Magisterium as non-binding and to introduce unauthorized innovations which are often completely inappropriate.”
 
Oh—JPII in Ecclesia de Eucharistia went on to say this:
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What does this have to do with free standing altars, except that you use the quote to imply that these altars are an abuse? That is incorrect and your private opinion.

Let’s review another church document on the subject:
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWINOEC.HTM#anchor36495058
II. MAIN ALTAR
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  1. The main altar should preferably be freestanding, to permit walking around it and celebration facing the people. Its location in the place of worship should be truly central so that the attention of the whole congregation naturally focuses there.
    Choice of materials for the construction and adornment of the altar is to respect the prescriptions of law.
    The sanctuary area is to be spacious enough to accommodate the sacred rites.
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Walking_Home said:
I am pretty sure our late Pope knew about the free standing Altar at St. Peters—yet he still wrote what he did. You should know by now—the wrecking of our churches and Altars–it is all part of the “spirit of Vat II”.
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I’m not sure whether your original post was directed against the idea of a free standing altar, so if it wasn’t forgive me for adding my unwarranted :twocents:

Free standing altars have never been legislated against and the traditional liturgical books actually presume that the altar is freestanding. The problem with most freestanding altars nowadays, is not that they are freestanding but that they are rarely dignified- for example, with a baldachin.
 
Walking_Home said:
I am pretty sure our late Pope knew about the free standing Altar at St. Peters—yet he still wrote what he did. You should know by now—the wrecking of our churches and Altars–it is all part of the “spirit of Vat II”.

Oh—JPII in Ecclesia de Eucharistia went on to say this:

“It must be lamented that, especially in the years following the post-conciliar liturgical reform, as a result of a misguided sense of creativity and adaptation there have been a number of abuses which have been a source of suffering for many. A certain reaction against “formalism” has led some, especially in certain regions, to consider the “forms” chosen by the Church’s great liturgical tradition and her Magisterium as non-binding and to introduce unauthorized innovations which are often completely inappropriate.”
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You’re casting far afield and looking for a fight, Walking Home. I don’t disagree with the old Holy Father. And there’s a difference between “formal” and “fussy.”
 
AJV said:
I’m not sure whether your original post was directed against the idea of a free standing altar, so if it wasn’t forgive me for adding my unwarranted :twocents:

Free standing altars have never been legislated against and the traditional liturgical books actually presume that the altar is freestanding. The problem with most freestanding altars nowadays, is not that they are freestanding but that they are rarely dignified- for example, with a baldachin.
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I have actually been basing myself on SC from Vat. II. Was its intention to do away with Altars—or as our current Pope–then Card. say----Vat II–has yet to be implemented.
 
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