The Anime Thread #1

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I guess I’m replying to everyone here.

EW: In the books (PLEASE read them! They are fantastic!!) Faramir was not even tempted by the Ring (sin), as opposed to the movie, where he actually took it. This is a complete and utter violation of both the author’s intent and the character, which is only one way Jackson revealed that, as a man of modern sensibilities, he does not ‘get’ the theme of LOTR.

I could go on with more examples, but as someone said, LOTR, wonderful as it is, is OT.

LW, I am never bothered by the mythologies of other countries. Our own fairy tales are rife with witches and goblins. This is why I can enjoy anime like Inu Yasha and Yuu Yuu Hakusho.

And while I am the opposite of a tree-hugger, I am also not bothered by what some accuse Miyazaki of doing. A love of nature and a celebration of its beauty does not always equal tree-huggin enviro-wackos (though in today’s world it usually does). However, I think the whole anti-war, tree-hugger thing arose not from watching his films but by reading Wiki.

From merely reading about it, I thought I’d hate Nausicaa—that it would be an enviro-wacko screed. Instead it’s a Christ parable. I loved it.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

LW, I am never bothered by the mythologies of other countries. Our own fairy tales are rife with witches and goblins. This is why I can enjoy anime like Inu Yasha and Yuu Yuu Hakusho.

And while I am the opposite of a tree-hugger, I am also not bothered by what some accuse Miyazaki of doing. A love of nature and a celebration of its beauty does not always equal tree-huggin enviro-wackos (though in today’s world it usually does). However, I think the whole anti-war, tree-hugger thing arose not from watching his films but by reading Wiki.

From merely reading about it, I thought I’d hate Nausicaa—that it would be an enviro-wacko screed. Instead it’s a Christ parable. I loved it.

I’m not saying it’s bad, far from it. In fact, I’m more likely to say that judging it for that is bad. What I am saying though is that Miyazaki has a lot of environmentalist and anti-war themes.

Nausicaa, Howl’s Moving Castle, Princess Mononoke… I’ve watched them all and they really do deal with those subjects.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I guess we see different elements in those movies. I just see stories, well-told, and I absolutely see the Princess in Nausicaa as a Christ figure—as I do the young hero in PM.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I guess we see different elements in those movies. I just see stories, well-told, and I absolutely see the Princess in Nausicaa as a Christ figure—as I do the young hero in PM.

Well just to put it in perspective, let’s make a simple analysis. For instance, in all three movies, there seems to be a war going on and it is always painted in a negative light.

Nausicaa - War between humans (the Tolmekians in particular) and the Ohmu of the Toxic Jungles.

Princess Mononoke - War between humans and the animal kami of the forest.

Howl’s Moving Castle - A war between two kingdoms in which Howl is loathe to join yet at the same time is being forcefully coerced into by his former mentor.

Now I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I’m just pointing out an observation here. It’s not unusual for directors or writers to have common themes in their movies you know.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I am just saying that we see things differently.

Does anyone here watch EWTN? It’s a blessing to me! I think it was one of their programs where they discussed ‘Peter Jackson of the modern mind.’

 

[CesarAugustus]

I am just saying that we see things differently.

Does anyone here watch EWTN? It’s a blessing to me! I think it was one of their programs where they discussed ‘Peter Jackson of the modern mind.’

Yes, I watch EWTN too!!!

 

[Argh]

I remember on the extras portion of the DVD i rented of Princess M. that the humans/women/lepers were not actually the bad guys, and neither were the kami of the forest, but the conflict between the two was bad guy - the demon’s rage and human’s greed.

I could swear I remember that Faramir did try to take the ring right before the Urukhai (/spelling) attacked. If I remember correctly, Faramir’s fight isn’t actually described, only his death, but I thought I remember him and Frodo arguing over it. It could be a false memory, though.

That, and everyone knows that Jackson is guilty of omitting Tom Bombodil. Yes, Jackson, he does advance the plot because he demonstrates that the power of the ring only holds sway over those with the ambition to use it.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I remember on the extras portion of the DVD i rented of Princess M. that the humans/women/lepers were not actually the bad guys, and neither were the kami of the forest, but the conflict between the two was bad guy - the demon’s rage and human’s greed.

I could swear I remember that Faramir did try to take the ring right before the Urukhai (/spelling) attacked. If I remember correctly, Faramir’s fight isn’t actually described, only his death, but I thought I remember him and Frodo arguing over it. It could be a false memory, though.

That, and everyone knows that Jackson is guilty of omitting Tom Bombodil. Yes, Jackson, he does advance the plot because he demonstrates that the power of the ring only holds sway over those with the ambition to use it.

Faramir is not tempted. He APPEARS to be so, to the frightened Frodo and Sam, but he is not. It’s a dramatic moment in the book and its significance utterly lost to Mr. Jackson.

Faramir does not die in the book. Nor does he in the movie. At least we can be thankful for that.

 

[foolishmortal]

Maybe Miyozaki isn’t obsessed with witches, but he did have them in Kiki"s…, Spirited Away, and Howl’s Moving Castle. Were they all Western-style sorcerers? In the context of Japan, I get it, but we don’t need the phony- white witches held up as the good guys here in the West, with the occult on the rise.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Maybe Miyozaki isn’t obsessed with witches, but he did have them in Kiki"s…, Spirited Away, and Howl’s Moving Castle. Were they all Western-style sorcerers? In the context of Japan, I get it, but we don’t need the phony- white witches held up as the good guys here in the West, with the occult on the rise.

Sorry, but I don’t fear fairy-tale witches, and I don’t think that fairy-tale witches in a cartoon will goad young people into paganism any more than will the fairy-tale witches in the Harry Potter series.

What I DO fear is the angry atheist, who is forcing God into hiding. Or maybe it would be more accurate to state that I’m disappointed in the courts for caving to their demands, which date back as far as the 1940s (I can get the name of the case later), even farther.

 

[tantumquantum]

I could swear I remember that Faramir did try to take the ring right before the Urukhai (/spelling) attacked. If I remember correctly, Faramir’s fight isn’t actually described, only his death, but I thought I remember him and Frodo arguing over it. It could be a false memory, though.

That, and everyone knows that Jackson is guilty of omitting Tom Bombodil. Yes, Jackson, he does advance the plot because he demonstrates that the power of the ring only holds sway over those with the ambition to use it.

I believe that’s Boromir you’re talking about.

Faramir is not tempted. He APPEARS to be so, to the frightened Frodo and Sam, but he is not. It’s a dramatic moment in the book and its significance utterly lost to Mr. Jackson.

Faramir does not die in the book. Nor does he in the movie. At least we can be thankful for that.

In any case Kenshin’s right about Faramir not being tempted in the book as opposed to the movie. I believe Jackson’s rationale was that he and his writers believed that since most of the people who came in contact with Frodo were tempted, it would make sense that Faramir also went through it. He changed Faramir’s character (and Denethor’s as well) and they came of differently compared to the book. Faramir wasn’t portrayed as positively in the Two Towers movie, however he was slightly redeemed during the extended version with the added scenes.

Also as expected the movie adaptation wouldn’t compare to the books in terms of depth and the Catholic imprint Tolkien left. Peter Jackson isn’t Christian so I believe that most of Tolkien’s message was lost in translation. He did however, unintentionally(?), did a good job with how he portrayed Gandalf. He added a couple of scenes not described fully in the book that highlighted and intensified Gandalf’s Christological echoes. The battle with the balrog (their descent to the pit, and ascent to the top of the mountain), his death and change to Gandalf the White, his appearance to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in the woods and his return to Helm’s Deep comes to mind.

 

[Eagelswings]

I believe that’s Boromir you’re talking about.

In any case Kenshin’s right about Faramir not being tempted in the book as opposed to the movie. I believe Jackson’s rationale was that he and his writers believed that since most of the people who came in contact with Frodo were tempted, it would make sense that Faramir also went through it. He changed Faramir’s character (and Denethor’s as well) and they came of differently compared to the book. Faramir wasn’t portrayed as positively in the Two Towers movie, however he was slightly redeemed during the extended version with the added scenes.

Also as expected the movie adaptation wouldn’t compare to the books in terms of depth and the Catholic imprint Tolkien left. Peter Jackson isn’t Christian so I believe that most of Tolkien’s message was lost in translation. He did however, unintentionally(?), did a good job with how he portrayed Gandalf. He added a couple of scenes not described fully in the book that highlighted and intensified Gandalf’s Christological echoes. The battle with the balrog (their descent to the pit, and ascent to the top of the mountain), his death and change to Gandalf the White, his appearance to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in the woods and his return to Helm’s Deep comes to mind.

Yeah, I’ll have to read the books sometime. I’ve only seen the movies. I guess I’m not suprised that a lot of catholic based content is omitted. I wonder now how Gimli fit in the Catholic role, because when I think of Gimli most I can remember of him is “That still only counts as one!” or when he’s in Helm’s Deep standing in between two ladders hitting orcs left and right. I’ll admit I liked Gimli’s comic relief but now I really want to see the real Gimli, how Tolkein potrayed him.

There is a bright side though… When Philip Pullman’s book the Golden Compass was becoming a movie the same people who produced LOTR movies also blocked out at least SOME of the atheist content in it (although from what I heard the words “Evil Magisterium” are bashed into you several times. We all know the Catholic Church is the Magisterium). To be honest I never saw the movie or read the books, and I don’t want to.

 

[Eagelswings]

Speaking of which I have two Ideas for my manga right now.

My first involes mostly 3 characters. James, Phil, and Ezekiel (or Zeke). It involves a university which students there are groups of people called Guardians. A guardian’s job is to kill savage monsters that have ravaged about the United States. They were formed by a former U.S. General named Douglas Harvey. Not much religion is used in this, but James is Catholic and does go to mass often. Oh, and Zeke is an anthropomorphic wolf/dog, and Zeke has an interesting story of how he used to walk on all fours and how he later became intelligent and human-like. Episodes are random and don’t really continue on in one adventure. Comic relief and good fight scenes are ensured.

My second is more based on religion. I was going to use James and Phil again. However these two are on an adventure. It starts off when evil spirits oppressed mankind and the good spirits came to help them. A war between good and evil spirits breaks out and the humans also fight the evil ones. The fight on a place called Kadoitio Pass and the good guys appear to be losing when the Kaibustsu (japanese for “monster”) appears and starts thrashing anyone in it’s path. However three humans named Michael, Gabriel and Raphael (ok you know where this is going) defeat Kaibutsu but not all the evil spirits are vanquished. Ironically after mankind is freed from them later some humans actually become evil and join the remaining evil spirits. Some time passes and James becomes the new guy in the spotlight. He has a power to wield a spirit sword he never knew about. James was a guy who never really cared about anything until he had an experiece that changed his life completely. He later leaves his home to wander and there he meets a dying white wolf spirit along with her pup crying for her. James and the dying wolf regonize each other. When James was a boy he used to play in the forest with her and have little adventures of their own. With deep regret James mourns because he eventually left his old friend to herself and was completely lost in worldly affairs. He promises to take care of her son and she has some peace as she dies, because she got to see her old friend before she died and her son will be looked after.

I’m still thinking the second one over. To be honest it’s based of a bunch of animes and mangas crammed in one salad bowl. The first one was easier to think of because it has no set adventure, therefore it can be used easier for all types of different scenes. Besides, who doesn’t wonder what america would look like if monsters began to ravage the lands?

So which sounds better?

 

[tantumquantum]

Yeah, I’ll have to read the books sometime. I’ve only seen the movies. I guess I’m not suprised that a lot of catholic based content is omitted. I wonder now how Gimli fit in the Catholic role, because when I think of Gimli most I can remember of him is “That still only counts as one!” or when he’s in Helm’s Deep standing in between two ladders hitting orcs left and right. I’ll admit I liked Gimli’s comic relief but now I really want to see the real Gimli, how Tolkein potrayed him.

There is a bright side though… When Philip Pullman’s book the Golden Compass was becoming a movie the same people who produced LOTR movies also blocked out at least SOME of the atheist content in it (although from what I heard the words “Evil Magisterium” are bashed into you several times. We all know the Catholic Church is the Magisterium). To be honest I never saw the movie or read the books, and I don’t want to.

I believe that Gimli’s sworn loyalty and affection for Galadriel mirrors the Catholic devotion to Mary. It’s not in the movies though.

 

[Argh]

Darnit, you’re right about Borimir, my bad.

I remember hearing that Tolkein actually was something of an environmentalist before environmentalists were nuts. A conservationist, really, he liked the imagery of the Ents taking revenge upon the mechanical-industrial Isengard.

Also, I think he said that the worst invention every created was the combustion engine, I think.

 

[Argh]

Oh, and Bleach may have finally reached awesomeness. I was restraining myself when plotkai resulted after plotkai after plotkai after oh no wait more plotkai.

Without revealing much, it went something like this:

Captains: Orly?

Aizen: Yes, rlly.

Captain Yamamoto: Orly rly?

Aizen: Ya rly.

Ichigo: Wait…orly?

Aizen: Yeah, really.

Finally, this week introduces a possible start to an explanation, something of a narrative. I practically had a nerdgasm when I saw who shows up this week.

 

[shondrea]

Sorry, but I don’t fear fairy-tale witches, and I don’t think that fairy-tale witches in a cartoon will goad young people into paganism any more than will the fairy-tale witches in the Harry Potter series.

What I DO fear is the angry atheist, who is forcing God into hiding. Or maybe it would be more accurate to state that I’m disappointed in the courts for caving to their demands, which date back as far as the 1940s (I can get the name of the case later), even farther.

Agreed. I was a witch every single year for halloween. My favorite shows growing up were The Worst Witch, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Practical Magic, Charmed…aaaand I’m not occultic.

But then, I’m also an avid supporter of It’s Just a Story

 

[foolishmortal]

Well, it’s like immodesty in anime. Some are more drawn to it than others, though it’s hard to register if it doesn’t have some draw on even a very practicing Christian–enough to lead to other liberties of the eyes.

I think many of those spiritually-charged Catholics think that every Catholic is like them–self-initiating, so they ignore deplorable art, architecture, innovations with the liturgy and music seen at Mass. I only know of a couple from my school (though really any Catholic outside of a relatively small group of a young Catholic group) who remained devout Catholics. Many went along with humanistic notions of social justice. The PJP2 generation experiment largely failed, based on '08, I feel. It’s time clergy enforce the exteriors, music and liturgy that maintained respect in the mainstream Catholic’s subconscious and which the Vatican 2 Fathers advised we keep back then. This may be a digression, but we can’t assume all Christians are theologically-informed and spiritually-on fire and OK exposure to witch characters for others, for example, just because we haven’t gone occult.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

In the context of Japan, I get it, but we don’t need the phony- white witches held up as the good guys here in the West, with the occult on the rise.

The difference between fantasy “good” magic and the occult in our world that tries to pass itself as such is so sharp, it’s contrasting and even laughable.

The day I’ll take portraying magic in a good light as a threat is the day when witches can actually kill you via fireball spells and death curses.

For now, I find reality to be a strong enough a weapon against loony cultists.

Witch: I shall curse you!!! May Baal strike you and your family for generations!! You will regret not buying my charms!! hisses

Me: Go ahead. cocks gun Make my day.

Witch: Um… on second thought, curses don’t kill as fast. >_>;;; Help me President Obama!! D8

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Besides, who doesn’t wonder what america would look like if monsters began to ravage the lands?

Exactly as it does now.

Play with your ideas some. They sound like they’d be fun to write.

And YES!!! Gimli meets The Lady, and is completely transformed by her!

The books are SO cool.