The Anime Thread #1

[foolishmortal]

If it’s the one played in the first decade of the new millenium, I saw the uncut version to its conclusion.
I forgot to say, earlier, that '80s cartoons didn’t have heros understanding their enemies, but were still charitable; anime has the heros killing their enemies, who reveal a sob story later, sometimes, but they aren’t happy about it.

 

[itrytofight]

Looking back, I think I would have prefered Japanese anime over American cartoons due to the fact that anime has some sort of semblence to a plot, while cartoons are an endless series of episodes that dont seem to have plot and suddenly stop airing once it loses its popularity.

It’s not true for all anime, but alot more have plot.

As for Family Guy… yeah I liked it as a teenager in high school for its random jokes and gags. Though it gets old after seeing it twice or three times, or when it dives intro depravity and insults your faith.

However, scenes like Peter’s ten seccond Stork Scaring venture in Massachusetts will forever stay with me.

 

[foolishmortal]

I wonder which is easier: writing 20-25 min. stories or writing sagas. The short ones require so much to be accomplished so quickly, but the plot doesn’t have to be so thick that it must stretch for a hundred or so episodes, in many cases. The sagas allow one to develop characters and just continue what you couldn’t end in an episode, though it’s best to end an episode with a surprise, but you need to make the story stretch for many, if not a hundred or more, episodes.
I was watching some Popeye and Hanna Barbera cartoons, then remember Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, and I realize how much they cruelly beat up on each other. I'm glad I was a child of the '80s.

 

[exoflare]

And how many years ago was this?

And where are those diligent moms in the case of that heinous dentist show or just about any other Disney or Nik or CN cartoon?

It was about 4 years ago. I’m not sure what the “dentist show” is that you’re talking about but anyway I don’t really know much about the stuff they’re showing on Nickelodeon, Disney or CN these days. The only shows I watch regularly on all those 3 channels are Bleach, Fullmetal Alchemist, DBZ Kai, and Phineas and Ferb. I used to watch Kim Possible sometimes too.

 

[tantumquantum]

Looking back, I think I would have prefered Japanese anime over American cartoons due to the fact that anime has some sort of semblence to a plot, while cartoons are an endless series of episodes that dont seem to have plot and suddenly stop airing once it loses its popularity.

It’s not true for all anime, but alot more have plot.

As for Family Guy… yeah I liked it as a teenager in high school for its random jokes and gags. Though it gets old after seeing it twice or three times, or when it dives intro depravity and insults your faith.

However, scenes like Peter’s ten seccond Stork Scaring venture in Massachusetts will forever stay with me.

Aye there’s the rub. I think we’re comparing apples and oranges here. I believe that
animation or cartoons when it comes to the western world is seen more as for the consumption of the children primarily. For the more serious themes and engaging plot one must look at the prime-time dramas. Compare this to anime which in Japan is seen more as a medium of storytelling in general than just a vehicle for children’s entertainment. The fact that they show Anime in Japan their “Golden” timeslot (7-10pm), which can be compared to the western Prime-time illustrates how they value animation there.
I think it’s a matter of perspective that we’re missing in all of this ranting. As much as a lot of us are amazed with brilliant anime like GiTS, Paranoia Agent, Evangelion(!), Serial Expriments Lain, Monster, LoGH etc… one must respect that their proper western counterparts aren’t scooby doo, cow and chicken, family guy and the sort, it would most likely be Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The Wire, Dexter and the like.

Not that there aren’t any good western cartoons out there. I quite enjoyed a lot of western cartoons when I was growing up. Batman: The Animated Series, Spider-Man: The Animated Series, X-Men, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited were all superb. I adored the Simpsons during the 90s and Futurama in general. South Park and Family Guy has it’s moments (you just have to sift through the garbage). TMNT, GI JOE, Thundercats, Visionaries and Transformers all contributed to fond childhood memories. Even the more obscure ones like Animaniacs, Duck Tales, Rugrats and Tiny Toon adventures had something to offer. Even the late 90s and early 2000 ones like Dexter’s Lab, Powerpuuf Girls, Hey Arnold!, As told by Ginger, Kim Possible offered some surprises.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I wonder which is easier: writing 20-25 min. stories or writing sagas. The short ones require so much to be accomplished so quickly, but the plot doesn’t have to be so thick that it must stretch for a hundred or so episodes, in many cases. The sagas allow one to develop characters and just continue what you couldn’t end in an episode, though it’s best to end an episode with a surprise, but you need to make the story stretch for many, if not a hundred or more, episodes.

 I was watching some Popeye and Hanna Barbera cartoons, then remember Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry, and I realize how much they cruelly beat up on each other.  I'm glad I was a child of the '80s.

As a former writer in the ‘real’ world I can tell you the saga is easier. For shorts, you have to come up with new characters, situations, and plot each time.

In a way I feel sorry for younger people, especially if they believe things were ‘worse’ long ago.

It was only Popeye and BLuto who were in opposition, and Bluto would kidnap O;ive Oyl; the entire CAST wasn’t dedicated to woodscewing one another to a wall, rather than Loving Thy Neighbor.

Good and evil was not blurred as today, and the filth that passes for laughs today would have (rightfully) landed you in jail.

Eternal truths are eternal—those who argue that cultural differences somehow change these eternal truths can look at acres of trees and miss the forest.

 

[itrytofight]

As a former writer in the ‘real’ world I can tell you the saga is easier. For shorts, you have to come up with new characters, situations, and plot each time.

In a way I feel sorry for younger people, especially if they believe things were ‘worse’ long ago.

It was only Popeye and BLuto who were in opposition, and Bluto would kidnap O;ive Oyl; the entire CAST wasn’t dedicated to woodscewing one another to a wall, rather than Loving Thy Neighbor.

Good and evil was not blurred as today, and the filth that passes for laughs today would have (rightfully) landed you in jail.

Eternal truths are eternal—those who argue that cultural differences somehow change these eternal truths can look at acres of trees and miss the forest.

I agree with you on the whole good and evil being blurred issue, but I have to say this:

No one is born evil (sinful, but not evil as the Protestants thought), they have a starting point in which they descend into that path. There’s also people who confuse evil with good and fight alongside evil until they eventually find the evil’s true nature.

I like how some anime used this in their plots.

The cartoons of then, good for little kids (Daffy Duck owned ) like I was in the nineties, dont reflect this but rather oversimplify it. Maybe not all of them but you get the idea.

That said, did you watch “Rocko’s Modern Life”? I used to have college friends who said that there were messages hidden in each episodes plot.

 

[itrytofight]

Aye there’s the rub. I think we’re comparing apples and oranges here. I believe that
animation or cartoons when it comes to the western world is seen more as for the consumption of the children primarily. For the more serious themes and engaging plot one must look at the prime-time dramas. Compare this to anime which in Japan is seen more as a medium of storytelling in general than just a vehicle for children’s entertainment. The fact that they show Anime in Japan their “Golden” timeslot (7-10pm), which can be compared to the western Prime-time illustrates how they value animation there.
I think it’s a matter of perspective that we’re missing in all of this ranting. As much as a lot of us are amazed with brilliant anime like GiTS, Paranoia Agent, Evangelion(!), Serial Expriments Lain, Monster, LoGH etc… one must respect that their proper western counterparts aren’t scooby doo, cow and chicken, family guy and the sort, it would most likely be Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The Wire, Dexter and the like.

Not that there aren’t any good western cartoons out there. I quite enjoyed a lot of western cartoons when I was growing up. Batman: The Animated Series, Spider-Man: The Animated Series, X-Men, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited were all superb. I adored the Simpsons during the 90s and Futurama in general. South Park and Family Guy has it’s moments (you just have to sift through the garbage). TMNT, GI JOE, Thundercats, Visionaries and Transformers all contributed to fond childhood memories. Even the more obscure ones like Animaniacs, Duck Tales, Rugrats and Tiny Toon adventures had something to offer. Even the late 90s and early 2000 ones like Dexter’s Lab, Powerpuuf Girls, Hey Arnold!, As told by Ginger, Kim Possible offered some surprises.

Hopefully I’m not breaking a rule by double posting, but I have to say that I agree with you in terms of enjoying western cartoons and not comparing them to Anime that may pass for Prime Time Sagas like 24 or that one TV show when ex-military personnel ended up holding up a bank.

It’s just I would enjoy them alot more if they went somewhere with maybe fifty episodes or so, not some random put together stories that change from one day to the next make the viewer look like cows for the milking. I’m not saying it would work on all cartoons, but there are quite a few that would benefit from this idea (might’ve worked for Dexter’s Lab).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Aye there’s the rub. I think we’re comparing apples and oranges here. I believe that
animation or cartoons when it comes to the western world is seen more as for the consumption of the children primarily.

Actually, I think you’re highlighting that which makes western cartoons problematic, story-wise. The western mindset does think cartoons are for kids. The same thing could even be said of comics. I should know. My family may be Pinoy but we’re known for carrying traces of that kind of mindset. As a result, it took a while for it to sink into my parents and relatives that not all cartoons were for kids. (How I proved it to them though, you don’t know wanna know. >_>;; )

I think it’s a matter of perspective that we’re missing in all of this ranting. As much as a lot of us are amazed with brilliant anime like GiTS, Paranoia Agent, Evangelion(!), Serial Expriments Lain, Monster, LoGH etc… one must respect that their proper western counterparts aren’t scooby doo, cow and chicken, family guy and the sort, it would most likely be Battlestar Galactica, Lost, The Wire, Dexter and the like.

I’m getting the feeling that that can be apples and oranges too. I was comparing east and west in that they’re both animated and not live-action. Alas, if we were to compare them in terms of being stories, yeah, there is a better comparison in that perspective. However, from experience, pro-“cartoon” fan brats (by “cartoon” I mean western cartoons) don’t take kindly when they’re told that their series of Looney Tunes and Silly Symphonies fail at something at anime does decently. (Coherent plot anybody? ) It’s the same way there are some anime fan brats who ignore the limits of anime in terms of quality animation (then again, I personally don’t care much about that flaw seeing as I only go for the story in anything fictional be it a cartoon, book, movie etc).

Not that there aren’t any good western cartoons out there. I quite enjoyed a lot of western cartoons when I was growing up. Batman: The Animated Series, Spider-Man: The Animated Series, X-Men, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited were all superb. I adored the Simpsons during the 90s and Futurama in general. South Park and Family Guy has it’s moments (you just have to sift through the garbage). TMNT, GI JOE, Thundercats, Visionaries and Transformers all contributed to fond childhood memories. Even the more obscure ones like Animaniacs, Duck Tales, Rugrats and Tiny Toon adventures had something to offer.

The super hero cartoon flicks are nice story-wise save that they add one little problem: they become yet another universe in the multiverse that is mainstream western comics. Also, it’s only been recently that they’ve had a tangible canon to be faithful to. Furthermore, they’re still not as popular compared to mainstream western toons I cited that were uber popular on Disney Channel, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon. The only exception was just recently (and pretty much the only western cartoon that I’m harboring a strong desire to watch from start to finish as if it were an anime): Avatar.

Even the late 90s and early 2000 ones like Dexter’s Lab, Powerpuuf Girls, Hey Arnold!, As told by Ginger, Kim Possible offered some surprises.

Yeah I admit but back then, whenever there was a cartoon like that, it’d be buried under two or more that substituted plot substance with silliness. Whatever subliminal message Rocko’s Modern Life had, I couldn’t see it through all the idiocy. The only thing that was worse than that was Ren and Stimpy. Now that was just utter tripe.

 

[foolishmortal]

I was comparing anime to shows like Family Guy, in regard to maturity and audience (obviously, Family Guy was not intended for the kiddies), but to children’s shows and evening toons in morals and story design. Outside of pop cultural references skillfully placed, I see no point to the existence of Family Guy, American Dad, etc… Is that all we can offer adults? It’s not there’s much to offer in prime-time sitcoms.

“King of the Hill” has been the only evening cartoon that has more than visual gags to offer and provides the most mature father figure, in the person of Hank Hill, in TV since “The Cosby Show”. “The Simpsons” had some high-brow episodes, but Lisa, though a liberal, offered some intellect to the rest. I still think it’s sad that, while so many inner city kids don’t have dads, we white people make dumb slobby dads look cool, so it and its ilk lose megapoints on my esteem scale. I’m afraid entertaining ourself with parodies of culture and pop-culture is a sign of the end of Western Civ.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I agree with you on the whole good and evil being blurred issue, but I have to say this:

No one is born evil (sinful, but not evil as the Protestants thought), they have a starting point in which they descend into that path. There’s also people who confuse evil with good and fight alongside evil until they eventually find the evil’s true nature.

I like how some anime used this in their plots.

The cartoons of then, good for little kids (Daffy Duck owned ) like I was in the nineties, dont reflect this but rather oversimplify it. Maybe not all of them but you get the idea.

That said, did you watch “Rocko’s Modern Life”? I used to have college friends who said that there were messages hidden in each episodes plot.

I watched it way back when it first appeared----I think I liked Rocko’s voice. I have a thing for voices.

But I don’t remember anything more about it.

 

[Ducard]

Here’s something to look forward to: Rurouni Kenshin is getting a live-action movie in Japan. The fight scenes will make use of CGI somehow. (Source)

 

[tantumquantum]

Here’s something to look forward to: Rurouni Kenshin is getting a live-action movie in Japan. The fight scenes will make use of CGI somehow. (Source)

Really, Sato Takeru from Mei-chan no Shitsuji and Kamen Rider Den-O (Yup I watch J-drama and Tokusatsu) will be Kenshin?

I don’t know if that’ll work out… the best manga/anime to live-action that I think worked surprisingly well was the 20th Century Boys trilogy and that had a landmark 6 billion yen budget ($67 million more or less). Casshern did reasonably well too and so did Nodame Cantabile.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Here’s something to look forward to: Rurouni Kenshin is getting a live-action movie in Japan. The fight scenes will make use of CGI somehow. (Source)

It’s nothing I would look forward to. I loathe any live-action adaptation of any cartoon, especially anime, which I watch because impossibly beautiful characters perform impossibly beautiful actions.

Live-action versions feature cheesy special effects that can never come close to the visual integrity of animation—and then there’s what passes for acting these days. Bleah.

 

[Ducard]

Rurouni Kenshin was a comic book before it was a cartoon, therefore this can technically be considered a comic-book adaptation.

Of all the big manga titles out there, you have to admit Rurouni Kenshin has a relatively decent chance of coming across well in live-action. No, it won’t be a replacement for the anime (or manga), but so long as the effects aren’t overly cheesy it can be something good in its own right. Japan does have a history of good samurai movies, after all.

Btw, the Space Battleship Yamato trailers that were posted a while ago look fairly good.

 

[exoflare]

It’s nothing I would look forward to. I loathe any live-action adaptation of any cartoon, especially anime, which I watch because impossibly beautiful characters perform impossibly beautiful actions.

Live-action versions feature cheesy special effects that can never come close to the visual integrity of animation—and then there’s what passes for acting these days. Bleah.

+1 :clapping:

On a related note, I think I died a little inside when I went to the movies and saw a preview for an upcoming SMURFS live action movie…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

+1 :clapping:

On a related note, I think I died a little inside when I went to the movies and saw a preview for an upcoming SMURFS live action movie…

The pain. The pain.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Really, Sato Takeru from Mei-chan no Shitsuji and Kamen Rider Den-O (Yup I watch J-drama and Tokusatsu) will be Kenshin?

jaw drops

The wimpy Ryotaro becomes Battousai? Momo’s gonna be ticked… >_>;;

Momotaros: NANI!?!?!?!?! NOT FAIR!! Why does Ryotaro get such an epic role!? DX It should’ve been me! At least I know how to use a sword!

Urataros: Senpai? As Kenshin Himura? tries to imagine Ggh!! >_>;; faints from sheer grotesqueness

THUD!!!

Momotaros: Eh? Doushite kame-yaro? >:\

<Random Den-O Music Plays>

(Yeah I watch Kamen Rider on occasion too and know a few things about the franchise. Nobody has a problem with that here… riiiiight? -_- taps his own DiMyzedriver)

 

[Eagelswings]

I drew this today. What do you guys think?

 

[foolishmortal]

Rurouni Kenshin should get the director from The Last Samurai, but lighthearted humor is needed. Jet Li would be great if they can make him look 20-something.