The Apostles & Islam

[Booklover]

George, the reason why there is a lot of emphasis on the companions of Muhammad (s) is because they sacrificed their wealth, and lives for the sake of Islam and they are the were the conduits through which Islam was brought to us; - of course this is according to sunni theology and a source of major strife between the sunnis and the shiites.

Denial, denial, Muslims live in denial! I wonder how many of his companions joined Islam because of the allure of “booty” stolen from others! Muhammad and his companions made money from robbing and looting caravans! Exemplary behavior!

Ex-Muslims do not have the same rosy picture of them as you have:

“They not only robbed and killed their victims , they enslaved and raped their women. They did not earn a single day of honest living”

and:

"Muhammad succeeded also because he appeared among the most ignorant, the most superstitious and the most barbarous people. The qualities that he needed to bolster his marauding religion were all present among his early followers and later were imposed on others who fell prey to his cult. Chauvinism, bigotry, haughtiness, arrogance, megalomania, stupidity, greed, lust for sex, disrespect for life and other ignoble qualities such as these, that are the hallmark of Islam were already present as the materia prima in the Arabia where Muhammad launched his prophetic career. All he had to do was to invent a big lie and add some intolerance and some violence to create the most perfect religion of hate"

And you consider such people to be trustworthy and reliable??

Vickie

.

 

[Booklover]

Hi

Kindly quote from Quran.

Thanks

I was talking about the way Muslims view the companions of Jesus, not Muhammad’s! I’m going by the comments made about them by the many Muslims who post here. According to them, nothing written by any of them is worthy of any belief!

Vickie

 

[paarsurrey]

I was talking about the way Muslims view the companions of Jesus, not Muhammad’s! I’m going by the comments made about them by the many Muslims who post here. According to them, nothing written by any of them is worthy of any belief!

Vickie

Hi

I gave quotations from verses of Quran, which speak nicely about the Apostles. I think you have not read them. Please read them, and that would change you view.

Thanks

 

[Booklover]

Hi

I gave quotations from verses of Quran, which speak nicely about the Apostles. I think you have not read them. Please read them, and that would change you view.

Thanks

Yes, but according to Muslims nothing reported by Jesus’ disciples in the *Bible *is trustworthy!

Vickie

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes, but according to Muslims nothing reported by Jesus’ disciples in the *Bible *is trustworthy!

Vickie

Hi

For that the NTBible accounts could be treated as historical sources only and all bits of events reported be checked on merit. I think these are not all correct.

Thanks

 

[Booklover]

Hi

For that the NTBible accounts could be treated as historical sources only and all bits of events reported be checked on merit. I think these are not all correct.

Thanks

Paar, but that’s just it! They are not correct because they are contrary to what Muhammad taught! He came with a contradictory message and then claimed that what did not agree with what he believed was “corrupted”!

You yourself are doing the same thing in your posts. You accept everything Muhammad said. Muslims call Paul’s conversion a hoax and yet believe implicitly in Muhammad’s prophethood. Our Bible states that Jesus died on the cross and rose again from the dead on the third day but you believe it’s a lie simply because a man in the 18th century declared himself the Mahdi and said it didn’t happen and that Jesus went to India instead.

It never occurs to Muslims to ask themselves whether it’s Muhammad’s message that is corrupted! Islam does not fit anywhere. It doesn’t follow anything or is the fulfillment of anything unlike the OT and NT. All the prophecies of the OT were fulfilled in the NT but Muslims still claim that only what they believe is true!

Vickie

 

[paarsurrey]

Our Bible states that Jesus died on the cross and rose again from the dead on the third day but you believe **it’s a lie **simply because a man in the 18th century declared himself the Mahdi and said it didn’t happen and that Jesus went to India instead.
Vickie

Hi

I never said "it’s a lie ", there are clues very much in NTBible which prove otherwise. I quoted arguments from the Jesus’ In Second Coming 1835-1908 in the form of PromisedMessiah which prove it with all probability.There is no compulsion, all with arguments.

Thanks

 

[Sixtus]

George, the reason why there is a lot of emphasis on the companions of Muhammad (s) is because they sacrificed their wealth, and lives for the sake of Islam and they are the were the conduits through which Islam was brought to us; - of course this is according to sunni theology and a source of major strife between the sunnis and the shiites.

This thread reminds me of the difficult tight-rope that His Holiness has to walk. We debate this in the abstraction of a Catholic Forum. His Holiness has to deal with it in the real world.

 

[Sixtus]

Yes, the Koran speaks of Mary.

It says Christians worship her as part of the Trinity.

Another mistake by Muhammed

Ha Ha, are you serious?

Let me get this right: God the Father, God the Mother, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost!

A wind up surely

 

[George_Waters]

George, the reason why there is a lot of emphasis on the companions of Muhammad (s) is because they sacrificed their wealth, and lives for the sake of Islam and they are the were the conduits through which Islam was brought to us; - of course this is according to sunni theology and a source of major strife between the sunnis and the shiites.

Thank you for your post. However, if Muslims believe Jesus was Muslim and His apostles were Muslim, why are their teachings ignored by Muslims? Sure there are a few mentions of them in the Quran, but that is it, nothing about what they did or taught or how most of them died spreading the word of Jesus and God.

Any Muslim wish to answer this for me? Once again does isnad apply to all the Muslim prophets or just Mohammad and his companions? If not why haven’t Muslims tried to establish isnad for the disciples of Jesus? Thanks.

 

[Montalban]

Ha Ha, are you serious?

Let me get this right: God the Father, God the Mother, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost!

A wind up surely

[5.116] And when Allah will say: O Isa (Jesus) son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

and

[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

Are usually seen by Islamic commentators as being about Mary in the Trinity.

 

[George_Waters]

We all have lives outside the forum, but I will never lack for wonder over how so many posts can be made and new topics started all the while ignoring simple yes or no questions about their faith that should be simple to answer.

 

[hamba2han]

To learn a bit more on ‘isnad’ and the ‘Science of Hadith’, Wikipedia is a fairly informative source.

 

[Montalban]

To learn a bit more on isnad and the Science of Hadith, Wikipedia is a fairly informative source.

But of course, when it comes to Aisha’s age then Moselm apologists throw Hadith out the window (for being inaccurate)

 

[Sixtus]

We all have lives outside the forum, but I will never lack for wonder over how so many posts can be made and new topics started all the while ignoring simple yes or no questions about their faith that should be simple to answer.

My dear George, then suggest it in the ‘New Projects’ thread.

The mods DO read this [and all other] contributions

 

[George_Waters]

To learn a bit more on ‘isnad’ and the ‘Science of Hadith’, Wikipedia is a fairly informative source.

“In more recent times the nomenclature - hadith, isnad and matn - has become restricted to mean those stories for which the original narrator was Muhammad or the original narrator told a story involving Muhammad.” from the first Wikipedia link.

So that answers one of my questions, but why bring up isnad and the apostles at all when isnad is only used for Muhammed?

Reading the provide links still do not answer the OP at all.

Also it is interesting to note the same link as I quoted above provides us with this: “… their method of authentication by isnād introduced to Islam by Jewish converts.” It was claimed earlier Islam is the only religion to have isnad, but it seems it was a Jewish concept.

 

[MMLJ]

We all have lives outside the forum, but I will never lack for wonder over how so many posts can be made and new topics started all the while ignoring simple yes or no questions about their faith that should be simple to answer.

Exactly! In Islam, it seems there is this a fallacy of ignoring evidence/proof and hence imagine perhaps, that if they continue in this manner long enough, these facts might divinely disappear.

 

[MMLJ]

There are some Moslem groups that have cults of Moslem Saints

This is even more shocking:
Islam has more cults/sects than any other religion. Case in point, they have the direct descendant of Muhammad (from the marriage of Ali (his cousin) and Fatima (his daughter)) in one of their denominations, alive and a billionaire today. He receives his weight in Gold every year on his Birthday from his followers among other tithes. Some even Worship him as a God or Son of God! His name is the Aga Khan. Aga Khan (Persian: آقا خان ) is the hereditary title of the Imam of the Ismaili Nizārīs الطائفة الإسماعيلية, a sect of the Shi’a Ismaili branch of Islam.

 

[Montalban]

This is even more shocking:
Islam has more cults/sects than any other religion. Case in point, they have the direct descendant of Muhammad (from the marriage of Ali (his cousin) and Fatima (his daughter)) in one of their denominations, alive and a billionaire today. He receives his weight in Gold every year on his Birthday from his followers among other tithes. Some even Worship him as a God or Son of God! His name is the Aga Khan. Aga Khan (Persian: آقا خان ) is the hereditary title of the Imam of the Ismaili Nizārīs الطائفة الإسماعيلية, a sect of the Shi’a Ismaili branch of Islam.

Is this one of the twelvers?

 

[MMLJ]

Because we know almost nothing about them.

How important is Jesus (Yeshua) to Islam?