The Art of Killing--for Kids

  • Thread starter Thread starter spencelo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
spencelo said:
I believe I can draw a rational line between plants and animals, …
Click to expand...
I intend to correspond with the Secretary of the Protist League and ask for a an inquiry into your arbitrary and unsupportable discrimination based entirely on subjective valuation among equal members of taxonomic levels.

Westerby
 
spencelo said:
…I never suggested they were. Rather, I suggested that Catholics, like me, draw a line between plants and animals for the same reason I gave: because plants can’t suffer.
Click to expand...
When you say animals do you mean mammals or all animals both vertebrate and invertebrate?
 
spencelo said:
MarkInOregon;9793616:
Animals raised for food are routinely
Click to expand...
mistreated – the problem is a systematic one, not just a few bad apples. There was nothing dishonest in my statement.

humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/

Where I live this isn’t how it works. The animals we raise for food are treated damn well. They live happy, healthy lives and when it’s time we kill them quick.

We raise goat, beef, lamb, pork, turkey, chicken… etc. etc. NONE of our animals suffer. Ever.

Furthermore, many, many ‘factory’ meat houses do NOT mistreat animals routinely. It is the RARITY for these evils to happen, not the norm.

Most animal meat will NOT taste good if the animal has been tortured or even if the animal is afraid when it dies.
Click to expand...
 
Cristiano said:
I have dogs and I had pets most of my life, and that is why I am asking the questions. My anecdotal experience does not show that animals have emotions just hard wired reactions (e.g. fear and pain). I see that a lot of anthropomorphism in the interactions between pet owners and pets. As a scientist I have not seen any real studies that prove the presence of emotions.
Click to expand...
Well, I showed you various studies - I suggest you read them seriously. And as I said, that animals experience emotions is common sense, but I understand why meat-eaters are motivated to deny this and play the skeptical card. The truth would mean profound changes.
 
Spencelo I just wondering if you are claiming that the states of the mind and the states of the brain are the same thing? I am asking because sometimes it looks like you treat emotions in animals like a behaviorist where you get the same effect for the same cause.
 
spencelo said:
Well, I showed you various studies - I suggest you read them seriously. And as I said, that animals experience emotions is common sense, but I understand why meat-eaters are motivated to deny this and play the skeptical card. The truth would mean profound changes.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. 🙂

I accept that animals experience some form of ‘emotion’. I deny that they are ‘sentient’.

This doesn’t change the fact that I’m more then willing to eat them when the time comes. 🤷 It’s the circle of life and I know they would eat me just as quickly were the situation reversed.

We do what we have to do to survive. If animals have emotion and that means we shouldn’t eat them and plants have feelings and that means we shouldn’t eat them what the heck are we supposed to eat???
 
nickybr38 said:
Where I live this isn’t how it works. The animals we raise for food are treated damn well. They live happy, healthy lives and when it’s time we kill them quick.
Click to expand...
So-called “happy meat” is also problematic, as I explain here: animalblawg.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/whats-wrong-with-happy-meat/
nickybr38 said:
Furthermore, many, many ‘factory’ meat houses do NOT mistreat animals routinely. It is the RARITY for these evils to happen, not the norm.
Click to expand...
This is simply untrue. animalfreedom.org/english/information/information.html
 
nickybr38 said:
Not necessarily. 🙂

I accept that animals experience some form of ‘emotion’. I deny that they are ‘sentient’.
Click to expand...
Do you recognize that animals can feel pain and suffer? If so, then you can’t deny that they are sentient.
 
Cristiano said:
They have not communicated to me yet thus I do not know.
Click to expand...
I suppose I should be skeptical as to whether infants can feel pain, since they aren’t able to communicate either. I guess slicing them up into pieces wouldn’t be problematic.
 
spencelo said:
Do you recognize that animals can feel pain and suffer? If so, then you can’t deny that they are sentient.
Click to expand...
Do you recognize that pain can be a mere reflexive reaction?
Fear as well?

I already stated I recognize they feel emotion, I don’t believe this means that they are AWARE of what they are, what we are, nor do I feel they can sit down and reason. Until a cow reasons with me I won’t feel bad about eating it.
 
spencelo said:
According to your logic, if I sawed off a conscious person’s leg as part of an unethical scientific experiment, that wouldn’t be torture (because my intent isn’t to punish, coerce, or receive pleasure). Animals raised for food are tortured in the plain sense that the suffering inflicted on them is horrendous.

I never suggested they were. Rather, I suggested that Catholics, like me, draw a line between plants and animals for the same reason I gave: because plants can’t suffer.
Click to expand...
What suffering? Cows, pigs etc get fed and sheltered recieve medical treatment if needed and are culled quickly and efficently. I worked in a slaughter house both on the kill floor and clean up. Animals are killed quickly, they do not suffer. In fact my employer would fire anyone who allowed any animal to suffer and didn’t cull the animals in a quick and efficient manner.
 
nickybr38 said:
Do you recognize that pain can be a mere reflexive reaction?
Fear as well?

I already stated I recognize they feel emotion, I don’t believe this means that they are AWARE of what they are, what we are, nor do I feel they can sit down and reason. Until a cow reasons with me I won’t feel bad about eating it.
Click to expand...
Infants can’t “reason” either, so I suppose I shouldn’t feel bad if I chose to eat one?
 
yukonbrad said:
What suffering? Cows, pigs etc get fed and sheltered recieve medical treatment if needed and are culled quickly and efficently. I worked in a slaughter house both on the kill floor and clean up. Animals are killed quickly, they do not suffer. In fact my employer would fire anyone who allowed any animal to suffer and didn’t cull the animals in a quick and efficient manner.
Click to expand...
I suggest that you are extremely misinformed: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2111455
 
yukonbrad said:
What suffering? Cows, pigs etc get fed and sheltered recieve medical treatment if needed and are culled quickly and efficently. I worked in a slaughter house both on the kill floor and clean up. Animals are killed quickly, they do not suffer. In fact my employer would fire anyone who allowed any animal to suffer and didn’t cull the animals in a quick and efficient manner.
Click to expand...
Do you ever get the feeling these people have never been IN slaughter houses? Because I certainly do. All the pretty articles don’t mean anything when compared with real life experiences.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top