The atheists best argument?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HabemusFrancis
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Charlemagne_III said:
The three cruelest madmen in modern history.

Hitler
“The religions are all alike, no matter what they call themselves. They have no future – certainly none for the Germans. Fascism, if it likes, may come to terms with the Church. So shall I. Why not? That will not prevent me from tearing up Christianity root and branch and annihilating it in Germany.”

Stalin
“We guarantee the right of every citizen to combat by argument, propaganda, and agitation all religion. The Communist Party cannot be neutral toward religion. It stands for science, and all religion is opposed to science.”

Mao
“Religion is poison.”
Click to expand...
The Nazis had a strange pagan religion bent on restoring nature to Hitler’s own liking. Breeding animals, restoring forests to their primeval state.
A good read in this area is “Zookeepers Wife”. I forget who wrote it.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Individual Catholics who do not subscribe to well defined Catholic teachings are not true Catholics because true Catholics are obedient to Church teachings.
Click to expand...
What percentage of Roman Catholics in the USA are “true” Roman Catholics? Polls show that a large percentage of Roman Catholics disagree with the Church teaching on artificial birth control for married couples.
 
Tomdstone said:
What percentage of Roman Catholics in the USA are “true” Roman Catholics? Polls show that a large percentage of Roman Catholics disagree with the Church teaching on artificial birth control for married couples.
Click to expand...
The priests say these Catholics must follow their conscience.
 
Tomdstone said:
So as long as you follow your conscience, you are OK, even when the Church teaches otherwise?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by “ok”?
A person is responsible for forming conscience. We all have a basic “instinct” to follow our inner compass. But it has to be formed well. A person follows conscience obviously, but conscience does not objectively determine morality.

For instance, I might be late for a meeting at work when I pass a bleeding man. My conscience tells me it is more important to be on time for work than to help the man bleeding to death. I follow my conscience but it is poorly formed.
 
Tomdstone said:
What percentage of Roman Catholics in the USA are “true” Roman Catholics? Polls show that a large percentage of Roman Catholics disagree with the Church teaching on artificial birth control for married couples.
Click to expand...
The Church endorses the principle of choosing the lesser evil. If a couple cannot afford to have another child they are justified in choosing the most effective method of birth control in their particular circumstances. It is also the Church’s teaching that our ultimate authority is our conscience…
 
goout said:
What do you mean by “ok”?
A person is responsible for forming conscience. We all have a basic “instinct” to follow our inner compass. But it has to be formed well. A person follows conscience obviously, but conscience does not objectively determine morality.

For instance, I might be late for a meeting at work when I pass a bleeding man. My conscience tells me it is more important to be on time for work than to help the man bleeding to death. I follow my conscience but it is poorly formed.
Click to expand...
I agree but we’re not expected to be infallible! People shouldn’t be condemned if they are ignorant through no fault of their own.
 
tonyrey said:
I agree but we’re not expected to be infallible! People shouldn’t be condemned if they are ignorant through no fault of their own.
Click to expand...
That’s kinda what I’m pointing out.
There is a difference between acting on one’s conscience, and what is objectively moral. The two don’t always line up. One acts on one’s conscience, because what else do we have to act on? The conscience is given to us interiorly by God. God speaks to us. We cooperate with that voice to varying degrees. Some people have badly deformed conscience.

And then you have culpability, which is what I think tomdstone means by being “ok”.
 
truetofaith said:
The priests say these Catholics must follow their conscience.
Click to expand...
No, the bishops say Catholics must follow an informed conscience, a conscience informed by Catholic teaching, not just any old conscience they make up as they go along, as certain Catholic politicians like to do because of their party affiliation .
 
Tomdstone said:
What percentage of Roman Catholics in the USA are “true” Roman Catholics? Polls show that a large percentage of Roman Catholics disagree with the Church teaching on artificial birth control for married couples.
Click to expand...
Catholics who deliberately depart from official Church teaching do not get to validate their departure in any way … not even in the name of conscience, which can be a front for willful disobedience.

lifenews.com/2016/08/29/catholics-protest-outside-tim-kaines-church-you-cant-be-catholic-and-pro-abortion/

Not to accept the truths of the Catholic faith is not to be true to your faith.

There are tens of millions of such Catholics, and the number grows exponentially all the time.

Nothing new there. Adam and Eve made it 100% in their own lifetime.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Catholics who deliberately depart from official Church teaching do not get to validate their departure in any way … not even in the name of conscience, which can be a front for willful disobedience.

lifenews.com/2016/08/29/catholics-protest-outside-tim-kaines-church-you-cant-be-catholic-and-pro-abortion/

Not to accept the truths of the Catholic faith is not to be true to your faith.

There are tens of millions of such Catholics, and the number grows exponentially all the time.

Nothing new there. Adam and Eve made it 100% in their own lifetime.
Click to expand...
👍
Conscience is respected but it is not God, and is not the moral law unto itself.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Catholics who deliberately depart from official Church teaching do not get to validate their departure in any way … not even in the name of conscience, which can be a front for willful disobedience…
Click to expand...
Many Roman Catholics say something different. For example:
tonyrey said:
The Church endorses the principle of choosing the lesser evil. If a couple cannot afford to have another child they are justified in choosing the most effective method of birth control in their particular circumstances. It is also the Church’s teaching that our ultimate authority is our conscience…
Click to expand...
 
Tomdstone said:
Many Roman Catholics say something different. For example:
Click to expand...
Whatever some Catholics may say that’s different from what other Catholics may say has nothing to do with the matter. It’s what the Church says that matters. 🤷

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.

1802 The Word of God is a light for our path. We must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. This is how moral conscience is formed.
 
Tomdstone said:
Many Roman Catholics say something different. For example:
Click to expand...
I would think “the most effective method” would be abstinence or NFP. So how is it that you are using tonyrey as an example, necessarily?
 
tonyrey said:
The Church endorses the principle of choosing the lesser evil. If a couple cannot afford to have another child they are justified in choosing the most effective method of birth control in their particular circumstances. It is also the Church’s teaching that our ultimate authority is our conscience…
Click to expand...
There are 3 falsehoods in this post. One for each sentence.
 
tonyrey said:
The Church endorses the principle of choosing the lesser evil. If a couple cannot afford to have another child they are justified in choosing the most effective method of birth control in their particular circumstances. It is also the Church’s teaching that our ultimate authority is our conscience…
Click to expand...
You have 20K posts on CAF

You can sure feel unto yourself that these things seem good. More power to you.

But there is not even a slight bit of question as to “The Church endorses” or teaches on any of these things.

In fact the church is so opposite of everything you said it is not even comprehensible how someone on CAF with 20K posts came to that conclusion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top