"The Baha'i Faith"

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arthra said:
If I may suggest something…

It is only the social teachings or ordinances that change from dispensation to dispensation and not the essenrtial spiritual teachings…

So in Qur’an you would perhaps acknowledge that some ordinances are abrogated such as the change in Qiblah so the Bab abrogated ordinaces in Islam on the authority that He was the Qa’im and so Baha’u’llah the Qayyum abrogated ordinances that were revealed by the Bab but the essential spiritual teachings we believe are one and do not change.
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**You are both Baha’is and both talking differently. I did not want to continue this discussion any further because D M had explained his faith to me. You have given two posts and denied that ther eis any other God except the One. But D M was towing the line of all the messengers being Gods (for some reason). Perhaps you also believe the same as D M.

I know all about the ordinances and their abrogation. i know that Baab abrogated the quran and issued a new code (Shariyat). Bahaullah came along and he abrogated the code of Baab sahib. It would be difficult to follow your faith. Bahaullah, I feel, never claimed that he was a messenger. But DM said so. I believed him. But DM had his legs in two boats. he also suggested that bahaullah was God too.

You are talking difefrently. Who to believe?**
 
Planten,

Thanks for your post!

If you may…why not investigate for yourself?.. a principle in the Baha’i Faith is independent investigation of truth or reality… so don’t take my word for it… investigate these things on your own.

Also in my view it is not that difficult to follow our Faith … Our ordinances are very simple and clear and we do not have different schools of law or complicated rituals.

With all due respect to you, let me say that Baha’u’llah did declare that He was a Messenger of God and that He fulfilled the prophecies of the Bab as "Him whom God would make manifest", this occurred on an island in the Tigris River outside Bagdad in April 21st, 1863.

with regards to you…
 
I think what planten is saying that the Messengers show God.
They are like mirrors. A million mirrors can reflect one Sun.
This is a simple and perfect analogy and should not be passed over too quickly.
People say they understand it, but if they did, they would have no doubt.
Planten still has doubt.May God empower everyone to be released from their doubts.

Baha’u’llah’s claim is so great, it incompasses many stations, as 9 encompasses the lower digits. How can He be the Sadrat’ul-Muntaha, and the Voice from the Burnng Bush, and the King of the Day of Reckoning, and the Tree of Life, as I have said, and NOT be a Messenger!
 
www.theaqdas.org helps people to study and understand this new and Most Holy Book.

The Creation is Infinite in Range & Deathless in Duration
The Purposes of God
The Proclamation of the Day of God & the Kingdom of God
The Oneness of God
The Oneness of Religion
The Oneness of Humanity
Independent Investigation of Truth
Elimination of All Prejudices
Elimination of Gossip and Back-biting
Elimination of Abuse
Elimination of the Concept of Enemy
Non-Interference of Religion with Politics
Religion Must Be the Cause of Harmony
Religion is in Harmony with Science
Equality of Men and Women
Universal Education
Universal Peace
Universal Auxiliary Language
The Need for Devotional Prayer
The Need for Silent Meditation
The Need for Consultation
Spiritual Solutions to the Eco-Crises
Kindness to Animals
Humanity is in Need of Collective Security
Humanity is in Need of the Holy Spirit
Humanity is in Need of Tests
The Center of the Covenant
Justice and Right
Reciprocity
Service and Action
Preparation for the Hereafter
This Panacea
The End of the Seven Times of the Gentiles

If any of these topics interests you, alert me to discussion of them.
 
A bump for the edification of LDS and Muslims.

Thank you for your visit. I hope you stay around. 👍

Perhaps “Elimination of the concept of enemy” might be worthwhile to discuss.
 
This is good:
backbiting or calumny
Backbiting, slander and dwelling on the faults of others have been repeatedly condemned by Bahá’u’lláh. In the Hidden Words, He clearly states: “O Son of Being! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.” And again: “O Son of Man! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.” This strong admonition is further reiterated in His last work, “the Book of My Covenant”: “Verily I say, the tongue is for mentioning what is good, defile it not with unseemly talk. God hath forgiven what is past. Henceforward everyone should utter that which is meet and seemly, and should refrain from slander, abuse and whatever causeth sadness in men.”
backbiting or calumny
Backbiting, slander and dwelling on the faults of others have been repeatedly condemned by Bahá’u’lláh. In the Hidden Words, He clearly states: “O Son of Being! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.” And again: “O Son of Man! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.” This strong admonition is further reiterated in His last work, “the Book of My Covenant”: “Verily I say, the tongue is for mentioning what is good, defile it not with unseemly talk. God hath forgiven what is past. Henceforward everyone should utter that which is meet and seemly, and should refrain from slander, abuse and whatever causeth sadness in men.”
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This is compatible with Catholic doctrine, and remarkable for the age and culture in which it was written:
The word translated here as “boys” has, in this context, in the Arabic original, the implication of paederasty. Shoghi Effendi has interpreted this reference as a prohibition on all homosexual relations.
The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.
In a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi it is stated:
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No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá’u’lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature. To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap.
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I’ll stop, now that I have gotten your curiousity going.
 
Mateo said:
I pray this email finds you all in good health.

I was wondering if anyone has had any encounters with a non-catholic religion called the “Baha’i Faith”? I am currently a student at a university and have encountered and dialogued with many different types of religions. This one in particular has given me a little more of a headache and is tougher to break down due to my lack of biblical and doctrinal knowledge within the Catholic Chruch. They claim to have 6.5 million members and say they have been growing fast. I was just wondering if anyone else has had encounters with this “Baha’i Faith” and if so how has it gone?

Paz de Christo,

Mateo
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Dear Mateo,

I am a bit late into this conversation, but I wish to add a few words. I too have a Bahai friend who was a Christian, specifically Anglican and was attractive to the Bahai religion because in his words, “its the only religion that makes sense”. I too have dialogued with my friend and former student and though I can easily rebuff his points about his faith which he does not practice by the way he refuses to see the light.

Like you I have pointed out as have others here the fallacy of their belief in a succession of prophets whose beliefs are contradictory. His counter argument was that was for each prophets time, but it is nonsensical argument because it violates the law of non contradiction. Sadly many people including your friend and mine are blind to the obvious.

My suspicion is that what attracts them like their older sibling Islam is the simplicity of their religion and the goal of world peace. Of course Islam does not seek world peace but you get the point. Of late I have resorted to using logic to show him the fatalistic view of his relativism because in essence the Bahais see everything as relative progression (history wise and theological wise). I am beginning to think the key is to really understanding their religion in greater depth and to explore its flaws in a kind and gentle way. I have made some progress in this approach.

I would also add that contrary to what the Bahais say it is not the fastest growing religion. In the beginning yes on a per members basis but it no longer has that honour. I would also add that the difference between the Bab/Bhaullah and Joseph Smith is only 14 years! Wow yes they believe different things and both claim God as their source of revelation so it begs the question how can God give two different messages in such a short space of time. A similar analogy can be used with Islam which is a heresy of Catholicism. In the case of Islam its far easier to draw upon their own scriptures which copy so much of the Pentateuch that dialogue is somewhat easier as they have much in common, but such is the nature of the beast.

God Blessings

Bhtech
 
Jerusha said:
A bump for the edification of LDS and Muslims.

Thank you for your visit. I hope you stay around. 👍

Perhaps “Elimination of the concept of enemy” might be worthwhile to discuss.
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**Jerusha, you are bumping the mormons and Muslims for nothing. Is that part of your agenda?. First of all your faith (If your are a Catholic) is bumped. All that glitters is not gold. Many Catholics will not agree to you.

Unless you believe that the coming of Bahaullah is the second coming of Jesus. Do you believe that bahaullah is Jesus? I hope not. Then why are you rejoicing? The Baha’i faith is much too young like the mormons. You have downplayed the mormons and considered the baha’is as your good friends.

I cannot understand that. You can leave the Muslims out of this match please. Thanks**.
 
I need to come back to read all the posts.

It is noted the Ba’Hai center is located at Mt Carmel…but my concern is why the Catholics left their religion. Ba’Hai isn’t very old. Are the former Catholics scandalized by the English speaking churches regarding the past 40 years or so?

The first 300 years of Christianity had to be lived out in secret. But many lives were quietly being transformed. Isn’t Ba’Hai fairly young as well as hidden?..but in time could have its own scandals??
 
Bhtech wrote above:

*Like you I have pointed out as have others here the fallacy of their belief in a succession of prophets whose beliefs are contradictory. His counter argument was that was for each prophets time, but it is nonsensical argument because it violates the law of non contradiction. Sadly many people including your friend and mine are blind to the obvious. *

Our belief if you are interested is called progressive revelation and in the Bible itself you have a succession of prophets… You have lesser and greater prophets and so forth. I like referring to the opening verse in Hebrews:

“Long ago, at many times and in many ways God spoke to our fathers by the prophets…”

So it is through a successiion of prophets that God manifests Himself… The spiritual message we believe is essentially the same and you have Jesus reenforcing what was revealed before and extolling Moses however Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount taught "You have heard it was said… " several times and then He says “But I say unto you…”… these are the updating of the ordinances and social teachings of Moses.

So this is our belief among the Baha’is.

Now a Prophet such as Moses we would term an independendent Prophet or Manifestation while a dependent prophet would be under the shadow of Moses…

The Lord Jesus we regard as a Manifestaion of God that had from His conception innate spiritual knowledge without being taught … The Apostles and Saints would be under His shadow and so on.

…

Some of you may know this but the Carmelite Order has a monastery the Stella Maris on Mount Carmel and I’ve visited it while on pilgrimage to the Holy Land… Anyway we Baha’is are generally on pretty good terms I think with Catholics.
 
Good point. Whoever obeyed Moses was obeying God, and He did not come just for the Israelites. There were members of Pharaoh’s own family who became believers. I think it is miraculous that He taught us about forgiveness by asking for it himself, after committing a murder, which God could have avoided in His Prophet’s Mission, but He rather used it.What is the difference between the Burning Bush and the Dove except sequence in time? Sometimes doctors will prescribe a different remedy when the symptoms have changed, and the Gospel verifies Moses. and Zoroaster too, --otherwise why would the Magi have prophecies and signs about the Messiah?

"See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall act as your prophet." (Exodus 7:1 NAB)
 
Don’t mean to be repititious, but for Catholics in particular, Jesus was the end of God’s revelation to man through Salvation History. Christ came to give us new life and in the end all will be restored through Christ with a new heaven and a new earth. He won’t come back in the meantime…as such there would then be no need for faith or hope.

The other aspect of this is that through the reception of the Eucharist, we then are to bring Christ to the world through the witness of our own lives for others.

I do admire the benevolence of the Ba’Hai but am concerned as reading information about it, it is alot younger than I first had thought. I also wonder if it would be susceptible to the ‘Maitraya’, Benjamin Cream’s humanized deity that some think is the AntiChrist.
 
Point one. If Mormons choose to honestly compare their religion to Baha’i, their religion will be on the short end, despite some similarities in beliefs. This happened because of copying each other, and because of the uncannily similar timeline.

Point two. Just because Baha’i has had only minor troubles originating from within themselves so far, does not eliminate the possibility that it might happen later. We all know what humanity is like.
 
I think that Christians are compelled to speak out for the sanctity of human life, which at this time in our country is very controversial and divisive. The other is that we speak out for the poor and that people receive just wages…whether they believe like us or not.

Furthermore, Catholics also have the perception among Americans that we are foreigners because we follow the Pope. I remember growing up with anti-Catholicism and moved to a state that tried to outlaw its private schools.
 
arthra said:
Bhtech wrote above:

*Like you I have pointed out as have others here the fallacy of their belief in a succession of prophets whose beliefs are contradictory. His counter argument was that was for each prophets time, but it is nonsensical argument because it violates the law of non contradiction. Sadly many people including your friend and mine are blind to the obvious. *

Our belief if you are interested is called progressive revelation and in the Bible itself you have a succession of prophets… You have lesser and greater prophets and so forth. I like referring to the opening verse in Hebrews:

“Long ago, at many times and in many ways God spoke to our fathers by the prophets…”
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Their in lies the fundamental flaw in your religion which I have pointed out to my friend before and I will point out to you as well. Progressive revelation is false when one compares Jesus to Mohammed. They gave contradictory messages and the law of non contradiction cannot be violated. One identified himself as God in the second person of the Trinity and the other denied that God is a Trinity. The passages in the Bible (many) and koran are very clear about the fundamental tenets of each faith. The Bahai theory of progressive revelation is false.

There is a connection between truth and love.

Blessings

Bhtech
 
katgee said:
Don’t mean to be repititious, but for Catholics in particular, Jesus was the end of God’s revelation to man through Salvation History. Christ came to give us new life and in the end all will be restored through Christ with a new heaven and a new earth. He won’t come back in the meantime…as such there would then be no need for faith or hope.

The other aspect of this is that through the reception of the Eucharist, we then are to bring Christ to the world through the witness of our own lives for others.

I do admire the benevolence of the Ba’Hai but am concerned as reading information about it, it is alot younger than I first had thought. I also wonder if it would be susceptible to the ‘Maitraya’, Benjamin Cream’s humanized deity that some think is the AntiChrist.
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Thank you for your post…

Well actually there is no connection what so ever to Benjamin Creme…

Prophecy is a fascinating subject…

We do believe that Baha’u’llah fulfills the prophecies though of the Maitreya along with other prophecies. The Baha’i Faith began in 1844 and we believe fulfilled the messianic expectations of Shiah Islam as 1844 was the year 1260 AH and “1260” you’ll note also twelve hundred and sixty days is found in Revelation. So in our view the Bab fulfilled prophecies about Christ’s return and there were movements of Christians such as the Millerites who expected Christ’s Return in 1844.

The “new heaven and the new earth” refer to in our view the heaven of religion, that is, a new dispensation is also a new heaven and earth with say a central sun being analogous to for instance the Manifestation for the age and those who derive their inspiration from Him are the planets and so forth. Our view of the cosmos has changed radically and this can also signify that the heaven and earth are transformed for us.
 
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