I’ve written before that I think this is part of our current struggle with homosexuality. It’s a lot harder for someone to practice celibacy in a culture where the solution to loneliness and the desire for human companionship is to be in a romantic relationship.There does seem to be an attitude that a person is either paired up or lonely. I wonder if it’s our lifestyles of moving around more that hinders the building up of strong friendships.
In my own life I can think of two long distance friends who were both very lonely, isolated, unhappy and didn’t get out much and then met girlfriends and their lives completely turned around. Don’t get me wrong I am happy for them but also a bit sad that it took a romantic relationship to make their lives better and that they couldn’t have achieved the same by making friends.
Disagree totally with this idea… Quite the opposite in many cases“Idolatry of marriage”??? You must be kidding me. If anything, marriage is undervalued in this day and age. I think you’re misunderstanding the “love of friendship” concept. The idea that friendship is the “most pure” love is correct. But it’s perfection is supposed to be within spousal love. Your spouse as your best friend with each spouse putting the other first.
After all…spousal love should be inclusive of Agape and not just consist of Eros.
For the record…my favourite passage regarding friendship is:
I agree with this. I see this attitude everywhere, I have even been told before I was married that adults don’t really have good friends because their spouse is the priority. I don’t think this attitude is good for anyone married or single.I’ve written before that I think this is part of our current struggle with homosexuality. It’s a lot harder for someone to practice celibacy in a culture where the solution to loneliness and the desire for human companionship is to be in a romantic relationship.
Agree with this.Well, I guess my husband and I have been mistaken for the last 28 years. We’ve been each other’s best friends and prefer each other’s company over anyone else’s. We work out our problems between ourselves without having to involve half our families and friends… oh, well…
That’s why we chose the reading from Sirach for our 25th anniversary Mass.
Depends. You don’t find it in the general secular society.What makes you think there’s an “idolatry of marriage”.
Yes, but I don’t think this is the case within catholicism really. I really don’t think there’s a widespread “idolatry of marriage” in the church. Maybe it’s different where you’re from but in my experience the opposite is true.Depends. You don’t find it in the general secular society.
However, if you look at current American Evangelical Christians there certainly is an idolatry of marriage. Single people are treated as pariahs and as incomplete people.
Adults should have friends other than their spouses. But ideally one’s spouse should be your best friend.I agree with this. I see this attitude everywhere, I have even been told before I was married that adults don’t really have good friends because their spouse is the priority. I don’t think this attitude is good for anyone married or single.
No one is suggesting that anyone cut their friends off, but friends also can abandon you and die. There is a covenant between husband and wife, one that is only broken by death. I’ve always believed that people who focus more on friendships, children, and other family members than their husbands will find themselves married to a stranger when all the others have gone their ways.I don’t think you could have a successful relationship with someone you wouldn’t be friends with. Me and my husband were friends first as were most couples I know. That said I don’t think it’s a good idea to only focus on him, he could leave me or I could be widowed and if I am left alone because I have cut everyone off then I’ve no one to blame but myself.
One of my friends got married at a similar time to me and we both pledged that we weren’t going to become wives who abandon our friends. Our friends deserve better and it isn’t fair to expect our husbands to fill our every social need.
I guess I see it as a bit of a risk, kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket. I think it’s good to have different relationships with different people. My experience is that some coupled up people (married or not) do end up cutting people off without realising that it’s happening.No one is suggesting that anyone cut their friends off, but friends also can abandon you and die. There is a covenant between husband and wife, one that is only broken by death. I’ve always believed that people who focus more on friendships, children, and other family members than their husbands will find themselves married to a stranger when all the others have gone their ways.
I would rather my husband and I pledge to each other that we won’t become a wife or husband that abandons our spouses.
Any lifestyle change–getting married, having children, going back to school, being widowed or divorced, etc.–causes all kinds of relationships to need some readjustment. Newlyweds, new parents, new students all have a period when their primary focus is the new spouse, new child, new routine. Gradually things go back to “normal” but many times it’s a “new normal”. Real friendships adjust. I have friends from high school that I talk to when our schedules allow (we live two hours away from my childhood home) but we make the effort to stay in touch–we don’t just expect it to happen. My husband and I have made new friends in the 28 years of our marriage, together and separately. But still, when the chips are down, we’re each other’s “go to” person for support, encouragement, and friendship and always will be. The friendships we maintain are just bonuses.I guess I see it as a bit of a risk, kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket. I think it’s good to have different relationships with different people. My experience is that some coupled up people (married or not) do end up cutting people off without realising that it’s happening.
Who said anything about involving half of your family or friends?Well, I guess my husband and I have been mistaken for the last 28 years. We’ve been each other’s best friends and prefer each other’s company over anyone else’s. We work out our problems between ourselves without having to involve half our families and friends… oh, well…
That’s why we chose the reading from Sirach for our 25th anniversary Mass.
It is a pervasive issue in conservative Christian Anglo North America. It is also more a laity issue than a clergy one.Yes, but I don’t think this is the case within catholicism really. I really don’t think there’s a widespread “idolatry of marriage” in the church. Maybe it’s different where you’re from but in my experience the opposite is true.
When I said “the Church” I meant the Church as a whole, not just clergy.It is a pervasive issue in conservative Christian Anglo North America. It is also more a laity issue than a clergy one.
I agree with the bold. Yes, spouse should be the priority. But there should be time for (other) friends too.Friendships are always going to change and they don’t always last. ** The sad thing is people who pair up and don’t even try to make time for anyone else. **I have single friends who are really struggling with singleness and I want to tell them that finding a spouse isn’t the only route to happiness as they can have deep and meaningful friendships but when I see so much evidence to the contrary the words stick in my throat.
This…".The idea that friendship is the “most pure” love is correct. But it’s perfection is supposed to be within spousal love. Your spouse as your best friend with each spouse putting the other first."Agree with this.
Rosebud77…what exactly do you disagree with?
Well that’s typical of the modern view where the sacrifice of religious and priests is not recognised as being a superior way of life. It seems to me that people want to ignore what the church actually says about certain vocations and invent their own way of seeing things.“Is what you call “idolatry of marriage” not just the recognition that marriage is a greater good than single life. If we can recognise that the vocation of priesthood and religious life is a “higher calling” than that of marriage, surely we can recognise that marriage is in turn a higher calling than the single life.”
I find this completely alien. No I do not think that any calling is higher than any other, or a greater good.
Pope John Paul II , Vita Consecrata, no. 32:
“As a way of showing forth the Church’s holiness, it is to be recognized that the consecrated life, which mirrors Christ’s own way of life, has an objective superiority. Precisely for this reason, it is an especially rich manifestation of Gospel values and a more complete expression of the Church’s purpose, which is the sanctification of humanity. The consecrated life proclaims and in a certain way anticipates the future age, when the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven, already present in its first fruits and in mystery,[62] will be achieved and when the children of the resurrection will take neither wife nor husband, but will be like the angels of God (cf. Mt. 22:30)”