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Ruthie
Guest
Jimmy asked,
*Why don’t Protestant, non-Catholic Christians correct one another when they discover a difference in Protestant beliefs? *
Believe me, they do. :whacky: I used to be on a Bible Study board that was majority Protestant. Some of the stuff that went on there made some of our more acrimonious posts here look mild. Of course, it was unmoderated. In fact, the host shut it down because uncharitable posts were in the majority, and they didn’t have the money to set up a moderated system.
Ah, well, we all have a temptation to MAKE people SEE that we are RIGHT! Charity is hard to reach for sometimes.
Ruthie
*Why don’t Protestant, non-Catholic Christians correct one another when they discover a difference in Protestant beliefs? *
Believe me, they do. :whacky: I used to be on a Bible Study board that was majority Protestant. Some of the stuff that went on there made some of our more acrimonious posts here look mild. Of course, it was unmoderated. In fact, the host shut it down because uncharitable posts were in the majority, and they didn’t have the money to set up a moderated system.
Ah, well, we all have a temptation to MAKE people SEE that we are RIGHT! Charity is hard to reach for sometimes.
Ruthie
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AlexiaMusing
Guest
I’m not sure what to make of your reply. Are you saying that Roman catholics don’t wish unification? Or are you speaking for all Roman catholics and saying they only want it on their own terms? The later you must surely understand will never happen. No one is going to respond to a claim that begins with: We are THE church and you are all pretenders. That’s hardly a way to interfaith dialogue is it?
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MDK
Guest
Mr. Jimmy has strong feelings for the Catholic Church, and is loyal in his defense of the Church, and I commend him for that. I think he would be the first one (well second one now) to tell you he has no authority to speak on behalf of all Catholics. Neither do I for that matter. We can know what the Pope and Magisterium teach, and share that with others.
I believe that Christ established one Church, not a bunch of different churches. One benefit of that is that it should have a final authority on dogma and doctrine… matters of teaching faith and morals so that we all have the same doctrine, dogma and understanding of Scriptures. These should be correct as well, and Christ provisioned for that. We were never supposed to have created a bunch of different churches in the first place. Now that we are in this mess, what to do?
That being said, we should work to bring all into the proper teachings of Christ, and be in communion with Him. There is a lot involved with that statement, as it touches almost countless areas people have already established for themselves, feelings, etc. Nevertheless, there are correct and true Godly Tradition, Written Tradition, delegated authority from Christ, doctrine, dogma, etc. There are also incorrect teachings and dogma… what to do with all this? Obviously, in order to correctly come to Christ, know Him, and follow His teachings, we must have correct interpretations and teachings, wouldn’t you agree?
I believe the Catholic Church has delegated authority from Christ, has correctly passed down and protected His deposit of faith, Godly oral and written Tradition, correct doctrine and dogma… is the Church built by Christ. I want us all to be in the Church built by Christ as his family should be. If you are not officially inside the Church, then I’d like people to be in as close communion as possible with her. If the Church is the Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ, then isn’t being in the Church being united with Him? This to me is love of my fellow man. If I hated you, I would want you to be apart from the Church, and if selfish would want it all to myself… but, I wouldn’t really be a good Catholic then. Whether or not you see it the same way, I hope you understand the position.
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anon52328184
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very well said MDK. i agree with you 100%.
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Jimmy_B
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Lilyflower
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I am a tad confused by the large case ‘R’ and small case ‘c’
What are you saying? ‘Roman’ is the name and ‘catholic’ is the adjective…but wait a minute, doesn’t the adjective normally precede the noun? But Roman is not a noun it is an adjective so we have an adjective that is afforded the dignity of a noun!!! Now I am totally confused
I would suggest that you first clarify to whom you are referring when you say: ‘Roman catholic’, then come back with the question. If it was a mis-type then please accept my most sincere apologies as I do it all the time
I am Catholic but I see Orthodox as a legitimate and essential part of THE Church
and ALL Bible believing Christians who accept the Bible in its entirety and not just those bits that fit a particular sect or lifestyle choice. In my humble view: to know and love the Bible is to know and love the Catholic Church
Blessings and peace to you
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happyday
Guest
Is your Bible available ONLINE in English?
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happyday
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happyday
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But Orthodox have a different Bible than yours. Still you see them “as a legitimate and essential part of THE Church”?I am Catholic but I see Orthodox as a legitimate and essential part of THE Church
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MDK
Guest
Jesus is alive today. He is today the Head of the Catholic Church, which is His Bride, as He was when He established and built the Church, and will be until the end of time.
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MDK
Guest
First, I commend you for ostensibly seeking Christ,as it would seem that anyone who believed in the NT would do so. You have interesting opinions, but what are they based upon? We base ours on the Words and promise of Christ.
We are from a large worldwide Church that not only reveres Sacred Scripture, but members of our Church wrote these Scriptures and later our Church assembled the Holy Spirit inspired written Tradition into the Bible. The earthly visible leader of our Church was given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven by Christ, to act as “Prime Minister” when the King was going to be with His Father, our Father in Heaven. Our Church which was established and built by Christ, also has the charism of infallibility in teaching and interpreting Scriptures in regard to faith and morals. Christ promised also, that the gates of hell would never prevail against our Church. Our Church is one, holy, universal, and apostolic.
Your profile tells us that you are “from a small church that follows the Bible.” What can you claim about it? For starters, is your church infallible when teaching faith and morals? When you consider the New Covenant, how can a small church fulfill the New Covenant which is for a worldwide blessing for God’s universal family to be one? Does your small church have apostolic succession?
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MDK
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I don’t know how you could be that far off by natural interpretation, so you must have made an effort to misinterpret what was said. Neither of your sentences were anywhere near correct.
Not that I think you’ll understand or attempt to take it correctly, but for the first sentence, the answer would be obviously not. This is so ignorant and inflammatory as to need no further discussion.
Regarding the second sentence, this is also ignorant and represents no effort at all to understand. If you understood Scriptures, you would understand Christ. If you understood Christ well enough in this area, you would understand what He established. Did Jesus say He would give dictation? Where is that in the Scriptures or in the Catechism or anywhere taught by the Church? If it is not, then were you just making it up to try and be sarcastic?
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MDK
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Reading it is not enough. One has to have the correct interpretation, so that we know what it actually was meant to convey. Ignorance of the correct meaning of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ and what He said and did.
I do agree we should not be divisive, but we Catholics didn’t leave the Church built by Christ. If you want to heal divisiveness, come back first… then, follow all the teachings… as those formally within the Church who believe in the cafeteria method need to recognize the Catholic Church has no cafeteria of doctrine and dogma… in reality it’s the full meal deal.
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MDK
Guest
The OT was a foreshadowing of the real to come. The NT is the fulfillment of the promises and foreshadowing in the OT. The Catholic Church chose which OT texts to include in the Bible. God’s New Covenant Church, the Catholic Church is the home for His worldwide family, Jews and Gentiles. You can’t really understand the NT well without the OT. The Catholic Church is the home for God’s publicly revealed truth, which includes the OT written Tradition as found in the Catholic Canon.
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RobGentner
Guest
Hi Christian,
They closed the other thread with over 1,030 postings.
I read you last couple of postings. Sigh, I would hope you understand that we truly do have christian love for you.
That being said, re-read your postings.They weren’t nice postings, most times. Why? That isn’t good even for people with many years of readingand Bible research and issue debating much less a beginner. Others attack you because you appear to come in with a chip on your shoulder. You set your terms on how people must answer you. You refused to accept that someone else is intitled to have their opinion also. Those things are arrogant and cofrontational wouldn’t you agree? I am not saying that you meant them that way. You seemed to misunderstand what I was attempting to teach you. For that I apologize to you. What I said was true so no apology there.
As I attempted to explain: You can ask a question. When it is answered, accept the answer as the other person’s “opinion” unless they provide sources.
Isn’t it OK for them to also have an opinion? Even if in your eyes it is wrong? You can explain why you have a different opinion. Not" belittle their opinion f" It will be returned.
It is always OK to ask for sources, They might not have any. They just believe the thing. You can ask them how they came to believe a thing why not?
When provided sorces Do read them. Then ask other questions, that they might have made you have. Like “I read the passage on forgiving sins but it didn’t seem to mean what you said it did. Am I missing something”? Is better that “that isn’t true, I know you are wrong The Church can’t forgive sins. I will believe what I want to”
Like you said the only way to stop bashing is to STOP! Very wise statement! :clapping:
God Bless you.
Did you ever hear of St. Augustine? My parish was named after his mother St Monica. I love to read his wisdom. He is a Doctor of the church. We are not required to believe these things. They mostly make us think! (Kind of like these threads!)
“Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe.” Saint Augustine
“Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand”. Saint Augustine
"If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself.” Saint Augustine
Smart man wasn’t he? I learnt something from you, several things actually. One was about my font. I know how to work around things like that. I never thought it would give someone else a problem. I changed because you mentioned it to me.
Re: The Bible is a “Catholic Book”, therefore, everything in the Bible, in one way or another supports Catholicism. Ignorance of Catholicism is ignorance of the Bible.
I am ashamed of this question.
It really must be a Joke, what about the Hebrew books, that we “borrowed” from them? 
I might say: Knowledge of the New Testament in the Bible is Knowledge of Catholicism. But that doesn’t logically mean that Ignorance of Catholicism is ignorance of the Bible?Hard to defend what you don’t believe.
Oh, Christian. You do realize we are not “required” to believe everything right?
Lets pray for one another as we struggle through life.
God Bless
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RobGentner
Guest
Mr. Jimmy has strong feelings for the Catholic Church, and is loyal in his defense of the Church, and I commend him for that. I think he would be the first one (well second one now) to tell you he has no authority to speak on behalf of all Catholics. Neither do I for that matter. We can know what the Pope and Magisterium teach, and share that with others.
Hi MDK, :tiphat:
Very wise words. Shared with a large number of Catholics and Protestants alike I am sure. The “True” Christians so to say!
The problem MDK , is that many Protestants are freethinkers doing what their minds “Lead by the Holy Spirit”
I believe that Christ established one Church, not a bunch of different churches.
MDK That isn’t debatable is it? The Bible had Him appointing Peter, not all 12 apostles, to lead His Church.
One benefit of that is that it should have a final authority on dogma and doctrine… matters of teaching faith and morals so that we all have the same doctrine, dogma and understanding of Scriptures. These should be correct as well, and Christ provisioned for that. We were never supposed to have created a bunch of different churches in the first place. Now that we are in this mess, what to do?
Pray?
There are currently estimated to be 33,000 Christian denominations. The sub-denomitions, sects, associations, conferences, conventions, fellowships, groups, unions, and whatever add an additional 28,000 with creeds, dogmas and beliefs that conflict even themselves. Many Protestant groups have more in common with the CC than their own protestant brethren
That being said, we should work to bring all into the proper teachings of Christ, and be in communion with Him. There is a lot involved with that statement, as it touches almost countless areas people have already established for themselves, feelings, etc. Nevertheless, there are correct and true Godly Tradition, Written Tradition, delegated authority from Christ, doctrine, dogma, etc. There are also incorrect teachings and dogma… what to do with all this? Obviously, in order to correctly come to Christ, know Him, and follow His teachings, we must have correct interpretations and teachings, wouldn’t you agree?
Yes, Good luck with even that! Makes your mind swirl doesn’t it? Reminds me of an Old Joke:** Good News ~ Bad News**: Good News ~ Jesus has just returned! Bad News~ Boy is He angry at what we did to His religion! Hmmm, that really isn’t funny is it?
Easy answer: the Catholic church is 2,000 years old and has attempted to follow Jesus laws and directives. Both written in the NT and other documents. The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Not to be unkind but since the first “New” church came only about 400 years ago and Jesus has only one body and couldn’t possibility want more than one church; He was perfect! He did not suffer from MPD, a psychiatric disorder characterized by having at least one “alter” personality that controls behavior.
Now, Who do we know that would love to divide and trick Jesus’ followers? To trick them into abandoning Jesus’ teaching?
We were warned: 1 Peter 5:8. But some didn’t listen and believed Him, the devil.
Not to be unkind, but what exactly does that make their churches without the true foundation? The Rock that is Jesus? Counterfeit. Imitations. There just isn’t any other words in English to describe it, are there?
I believe the Catholic Church has delegated authority from Christ, has correctly passed down and protected His deposit of faith, Godly oral and written Tradition, correct doctrine and dogma… is the Church built by Christ. I want us all to be in the Church built by Christ as his family should be. If you are not officially inside the Church, then I’d like people to be in as close communion as possible with her. That is exactly the answer!
We should celebrate and practice our similarities. We should endeavor to become joined together again.
We need to protect ourselves from divisive thinking. We should pray to The Blessed Mother, plus all the Angels and Saints for their help in defeating Satin! We are all Christians. We should Unite! All souls can be saved through the “graces” given to the CC.
If the Church is the Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ, then isn’t being in the Church being united with Him?
AMEN!
This to me is love of my fellow man. If I hated you, I would want you to be apart from the Church, and if selfish would want it all to myself… but, I wouldn’t really be a good Catholic then.
The only ones that would not like it is the JWs. They limit God’s mercy to 44,000. I am suprised they are still recruiting. One in ~ one damned? :bighanky:
Whether or not you see it the same way, I hope you understand the position.
Yea, Right! Wanna Bet?
KOOTOS, EXCELLENT POST!
God Bless
M
mackbrislawn
Guest
To whom does the Bible belong?
Actually this is an important question and much to the point.
By looking at history we see that members of the congregation of God (I’ll avoid the term ‘church’) wrote scripture, to and for other members of the congregation. It can be seen that this applies both to the Old Testament and to the New Testament.
It was not written to outsiders.
Scripture itself testifies to this. 2Peter 3:15-16 “…just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” (NAS)
Of course outsiders would be among the untaught, unlike those members of God’s congregation, who have been taught.
Therefore, a non-Christian, reading a Gideon bible in his motel room, is among the untaught, and can easily misunderstand, easily distort, what he is reading. It is possible he may understand rightly, but the chances of misunderstanding are very high, and the consequence of misunderstanding is his own destruction.
The Ethiopian eunuch asked, "How can I understand, unless someone guides me? " That is the purpose of God’s congregation.
What is God’s congregation? Now that is a very controversial question.
(God’s congregation further teaches that the members of the congregation who wrote scripture did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and that although scripture itself was not written to outsiders, the message, the content, of scripture is for everybody, the whole world. Jesus made this clear when He gave the Great Commission to his congregation, to go out and make disciples of all nations, the whole world.)
Actually this is an important question and much to the point.
By looking at history we see that members of the congregation of God (I’ll avoid the term ‘church’) wrote scripture, to and for other members of the congregation. It can be seen that this applies both to the Old Testament and to the New Testament.
It was not written to outsiders.
Scripture itself testifies to this. 2Peter 3:15-16 “…just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” (NAS)
Of course outsiders would be among the untaught, unlike those members of God’s congregation, who have been taught.
Therefore, a non-Christian, reading a Gideon bible in his motel room, is among the untaught, and can easily misunderstand, easily distort, what he is reading. It is possible he may understand rightly, but the chances of misunderstanding are very high, and the consequence of misunderstanding is his own destruction.
The Ethiopian eunuch asked, "How can I understand, unless someone guides me? " That is the purpose of God’s congregation.
What is God’s congregation? Now that is a very controversial question.
(God’s congregation further teaches that the members of the congregation who wrote scripture did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and that although scripture itself was not written to outsiders, the message, the content, of scripture is for everybody, the whole world. Jesus made this clear when He gave the Great Commission to his congregation, to go out and make disciples of all nations, the whole world.)
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Reformed
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