The Bible is a Catholic Document

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p90:
It is an assertion that assumes that the Catholic Church of today is the same church that complied the Scriptures. Many Protestants, including myself, reject this assertion.

~Matt
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If it wasn’t the Catholic Church, then which church are you referring to? There were no Protestants for nearly twelve centuries after the Canon was closed in 397 AD by the **Catholic **Council of Carthage. The latter council declared as follows:

CANON XXIV (Greek. xxvii)

That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture.

ITEM, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture.

But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows:

Genesis.
Exodus.
Leviticus.
Numbers.
Deuteronomy.
Joshua the Son of Nun.
The Judges.
Ruth.
The Kings, iv. books.
The Chronicles, ij. books.
Job.
The Psalter.
The Five books of Solomon.
The Twelve Books of the Prophets.
Isaiah.
Jeremiah.
Ezechiel.
Daniel.
Tobit.
Judith.
Esther.
Ezra, ij. books.
Macchabees, ij. books.

THE NEW TESTAMENT.

The Gospels, iv. books.
The Acts of the Apostles, j. book.
The Epistles of Paul, xiv.
The Epistles of Peter, the Apostle, ij.
The Epistles of John the Apostle, iij.
The Epistles of James the Apostle, j.
The Epistle of Jude the Apostle, j.
The Revelation of John, j. book.

Let this be sent to our brother and fellow bishop, Boniface, and to the other bishops of those parts, that they may confirm this canon, for these are the things which we have received from our fathers to be read in church.
​

Prior to the closing of the canon, books like the Protoevangelium of James, The Didache,the Shepherd of Hermas, and several epistles of Clement were considered as parts of scripture by many early Christians.
Take note: Boniface is bishop of Rome.

Gerry 🙂
 
I am waiting for the rest of the Protestants, Evangelicals, non-denominational Christians on these forums to respond, but especially I hope there are righteous Jews out there who will comment on the obvious fallacy in Little Mary’s statement.
 
La Chiara:
Just because you think otherwise, doesn’t make it any less true (except for you). The Catholic Church is indeed the same church that compiled the Scriptures.
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I was only answering the request of the original poster. How should I have responded? How should I respond to what you’ve written here?

~Matt
 
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RobedWithLight:
If it wasn’t the Catholic Church, then which church are you referring to? There were no Protestants for nearly twelve centuries after the Canon was closed in 397 AD by the **Catholic **Council of Carthage.
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The church that is being referred to is the universal church that transcends denominational boundaries. It would be a misnomer to refer to it as any of our contemporary religious movements (Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc.) or denominations (Roman Catholic, Reformed Baptist, etc.). While that entity was Christian, they didn’t hold to many of the same beliefs as any modern group or other groups in surrounding time periods.

~Matt
 
the Bible isnt catholic, for the record King James was protestant not catholic the church was against him… read the history of King James…
 
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JOEH_1:
the Bible isnt catholic, for the record King James was protestant not catholic the church was against him… read the history of King James…
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That’s why Catholics don’t use that King James Version.
 
Do you desire my participation in this thread?
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Of course! I welcome your participation. Your opinion versus my opinion (which hopefully will reflect the teaching of the Catholic church) is why I came here. I do not think either of us will ultimately convince the other, but I personally also try to reach the “unseen” lurking audience also.

God Bless,
maria
 
The bible is the oracles of God given to 1) His chosen people
2) all believers 3)all sincerely sekking peoples.
For any Catholic to lay claim that it is theirs is absurb.
 
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Xavier:
The bible is the oracles of God given to 1) His chosen people
2) all believers 3)all sincerely sekking peoples.
For any Catholic to lay claim that it is theirs is absurb.
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Jesus gave us both the Bible and a Church.
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Xavier:
For any Catholic to lay claim that it is theirs is absurd.
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Actually, the error is for non-Catholics to remove the Bible from the context of its family (the Catholic Church) and then claim to understand it better than the family it was written by and for.
 
*Historically the Bible is Catholic. It was Catholics 🙂 who decided what to put in and what to leave out. *

*However, unlike “Bible-Only” Protestants, Catholics share in the fullness of our faith via Scripture, Tradition and our obedience to the the successor to St. Peter (our Pope). 👍 *
 
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p90:
The church that is being referred to is the universal church that transcends denominational boundaries. It would be a misnomer to refer to it as any of our contemporary religious movements (Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc.) or denominations (Roman Catholic, Reformed Baptist, etc.). While that entity was Christian, they didn’t hold to many of the same beliefs as any modern group or other groups in surrounding time periods.
~Matt
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Matt, the question here was a historical one, not a question about the definition of the Church. As a historical entity, she predates denominations. The idea of a universal Church transcending the Church founded by Christ is a novelty of the Reformation period.

Point: The Catholic and Orthdox Churches are not “denominations.” They are Churches.

To plagiarize myself:

The entity which I call “the corporation” is necessary, Christ-founded, and true because, just as Christ assumed a physical, material body in the Incarnation, so his Church requires a physical, material body to carry out his mission. But the physical body identified as the Catholic Church is only part of the picture.

Insofar as the Church is Christ’s foundation for transmitting his gospel, it is the privileged place for the communication of grace: “Receive the Holy Spirit” he said to the apostles . . . If the Church – not just the spiritual entity in Heaven and earth but “the corporation” – is the earthly Body of Christ, and if all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Christ to send apostles to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them and teaching them to observe his commands (Mt. 28), then it is unreasonable that the Church, his Church, should not be the privileged communicator of grace. Does that mean the ONLY way grace is received is through the Church? Quite possibly, if you take a very broad view of the Church. But, grace is clearly poured out upon people who are not members of the visible Catholic Church.

Does grace completely dry up among the separated brethren of the Great Schism or the Reformation? Not completely. Since when does the Holy Spirit stay in the house? But the promise was that the fullness would remain at the center.

The day I figured out that the visible Catholic Church is, on earth, the center-point, the privileged place of witness, founded and graced by Christ to be his Body in earth, was a milestone in my conversion. I reasoned, from my knowledge of history rather than of theology, that if Christ established the Catholic Church, then I needed to be in it, not out of it. I asked him to do whatever it would take to break down the barriers between my heart and his Church. And he did.
 
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Xavier:
The bible is the oracles of God given to 1) His chosen people
2) all believers 3)all sincerely sekking peoples.
For any Catholic to lay claim that it is theirs is absurb.
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Xavier,

If if were not for the Catholic Church you would not have a bible today. If you do not know this then you do not know history. Under great waves of persecution in the early church and even in the face of Islamic conquest, it was the Catholic Church that meticulously copied and protected the holy word of God. The Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage in the 4th century established the Christian canon of scripture. This canon was affirmed at the Council of Florence in 1442 and again at the Council of Trent. Even Luther grudgingly admitted that, “…if it weren’t for the papists we would know nothing of the scriptures.”

The Christian bible is a Catholic book. There is absolutely no question about this…it is simple historical fact.
 
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Greg_McPherran:
Jesus gave us both the Bible and a Church.

Actually, the error is for non-Catholics to remove the Bible from the context of its family (the Catholic Church) and then claim to understand it better than the family it was written by and for.
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Not totally correct. The Bible is God inspired. Jesus did not give it but the spirit of God who rested on his chosen writers.
Jesus is the Word made flesh.
Jesus gave us a church and we disagree what church that was. How many different ways do you beat a dead horse?
 
Just read any comprehensive history book, and you will know that until the Protestant revolt there was but one church. That is the Church that Jesus founded and it still exists today. To some that may be beating a dead horse, but the facts are what they are.
 
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Pax:
Xavier,

If if were not for the Catholic Church you would not have a bible today. If you do not know this then you do not know history. Under great waves of persecution in the early church and even in the face of Islamic conquest, it was the Catholic Church that meticulously copied and protected the holy word of God. The Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage in the 4th century established the Christian canon of scripture. This canon was affirmed iat the Council of Florence in 1442 and again at the Council of Trent. Even Luther said, “…if it weren’t for the papists we would know nothing of the scriptures.”

The Christian bible is a Catholic book. There is absolutely no question about this…it is simple historical fact.
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Please---- the bible was entrusted to the Jews, then Christian believers embraced it. Before there was a Catholic Church or an Orthodox Church or a Baptist Church.
 
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Pax:
Just read any comprehensive history book, and you will know that until the Protestant revolt there was but one church. That is the Church that Jesus founded and it still exists today. To some that may be beating a dead horse, but the facts are what they are.
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Were not the eastern and western churches split.
Yes the Church of Christ still exists today Catholics Protestants Orthodox are all part of it.
 
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mercygate:
Xavier,

How do you know that the Bible is God-inspired?
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**2 Timothy 3 **3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
 
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mercygate:
Matt, the question here was a historical one, not a question about the definition of the Church. As a historical entity, she predates denominations. The idea of a universal Church transcending the Church founded by Christ is a novelty of the Reformation period.
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My response was historical in nature; discussing the form of the early church is historical. I also didn’t claim that the universal church “transcends” the church founded by Christ. It is the church founded by Christ.
To plagiarize myself:
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How is what you’ve written here relevant?

~Matt
 
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