The Bible is NOT infallible

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c0achmcguirk:
Agreed 1000 is too big…more like 15 or 20. 😃

Anyway, what’s important is that we strive for true figures and arguments on both sides of the Catholic-Protestant debate. Only then will truth prevail.

God bless,
c0ach
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c0ach, I agree with the fact that we should strive to unite the Body of Christ, it is what He prayed for. The number of “denominations” is a valid one when talking about the “infallibility” of the Bible. In my city alone, of 70k people, there are over 36 denominations, each one of these claims to be THE Church? I gave a you 1000 to have a meeting point. We could then debate how if the Bible is infallible, this could happen?

Now we can relable them if you want, but it doesn’t change the fact that everytime someone disagrees with what the Bible says, they go off and start their own Church? Or maybe, they even just start their own church, just because?

The Hebrew Scriptures were never looked at in this manner, the people looked to the Priests to explain what the Scripture meant. Christ Himself aludded to this when He said to do what the Pharisees said, not what they did.

We can all agree that Man needs authority, so when Protestants separated from the Universal Church, Christs Church, something had to take the place of The High Bishop, so they turned to the only thing they had, the Bible. Christs said, “A house devided can not stand”, when there is division, there must be a tie breaker, which is why the Keys were given to Peter and his successors. I personally think this is one of the reasons, that denominations keep splintering.

So it comes back to Karl’s original post, a book can not be fallible or infallible, but the people reading it can be fallible, except for the Pope when is using Ex Cathera. All Christians will agree that the Apostles were infallible upon receiving the Holy Spirit. So that somehow stoped after their death for 300 years, only to come back in the form of a book? No, Christ said He would be with His Church always.

Joao
 
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c0achmcguirk:
Hi Chief, hope you are well.

Your argument isn’t with me, but it is with Barrett, the guy who compiled the numbers for the World Christian Encyclopedia. The source for the 33,000 denominations argument. Again, my only point is to (hopefully) show Catholic apologists that the number is grossly distorted.

Another day, when I have more time, I will move on to your next point–are these Protestant denominations proof that sola Scriptura has failed?

God bless,
c0ach
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Hey Coach, Yes I am well. You?

Goes without saying, I was referring to the link source. I look forward to your reply.

Peace!
 
And you wonder why there are 38,000 Christian sects. Just look at the legalism in the two frequent posters above. We can argue semantics all day. I am not an etimologist, it just seems apparent that infallible connotes the inability to make misakes, while inerrancy connotes the quality of being free from mistakes.
 
I give up.
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I would just find a cleaner version of the argument (and leave out the second article entirely). Svendsen is right about the statistics from Barrett being misused from the Catholic perspective (since those numbers don’t correspond to what Catholics mean by “doctrinal disunity”), but then he equivocates in his counter-argument by asserting the evangelical understanding of doctrinal disunity. I agree that Barrett’s statistics don’t illustrate doctrinal disunity from the Catholic perspective, but neither do they illustrate doctrinal disunity within Catholicism or doctrinal unity within evangelicalism. It suffices to say that Barrett is not drawing his lines according to the same criteria that Catholics would use to evaluate doctrinal disunity and leave it at that.
 
c0achmcguirk said:
:rolleyes: and the cycle starts all over again. I give up.

c0ach
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Hey c0ach, let’s look at it in a different way…😃

Now you know how Catholics feel when we get harrassed about “Praying to Mary”, “Catholics are not Christian”, “Are you saved?” Catholic’s worship a string of beads" and what not. No matter how much we tell our Protestant brothers the opposite, they don’t seem to hear.

Payback is a bear, so, let me buy you a virtualy drink, and we can go on to the next MerryGo Round. 🙂

Joao
 
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mango_2003:
Oh how fun blanket statements are. From my experience…the Protestants I know are much more united in their beliefs than the Catholics I know. I’ve heard Catholics expressing sundry beliefs…many don’t even know what they believe.~mango~
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Those “Catholics” are not following Catholic doctrine. If you check the Catechism, you’ll find that it’s very specific on that point.
 
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JoaoMachado:
Hey c0ach, let’s look at it in a different way…😃

Now you know how Catholics feel when we get harrassed about “Praying to Mary”, “Catholics are not Christian”, “Are you saved?” Catholic’s worship a string of beads" and what not. No matter how much we tell our Protestant brothers the opposite, they don’t seem to hear.

Payback is a bear, so, let me buy you a virtualy drink, and we can go on to the next MerryGo Round. 🙂

Joao
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Love your reply. 👍 Can I go on the merry go round too. Please? I am on your side.
 
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Shari:
Love your reply. 👍 Can I go on the merry go round too. Please? I am on your side.
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Everyone is welcomed on the merry go round 😉 , but wouldn’t you agreen that we are all on the same side? We just need to get going in the right direction… :yup:

Joao
 
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Charash:
Interesting how these thread topics go off on tangents. . . .

A denomination, btw, is a sect that has been given a name (denominate means to designate or give a name to.) When Luther broke from Rome in 1517 (on Halloween of all days!?) he gave his new sect a name which was not Catholic. By the year 1600 there were over 160 different denominations that had broken apart and away from Rome.

We continue to divide ourselves politically, socially, and religiously. And, at what cost? Look at the world we live in. If we could just unite all Christians together, imagine the power we would have to change the face of the earth.
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1)A Baptist workmate once told me he did not like the word “sect”.He thought of Baptists etc.as being a denomination within the Protestant religion.

2)A friend who calls himself a liberal catholic bangs on a lot about
Churches Together.What’s wrong with being friends with the non-christians as well?He gets rather fussed when i occasionally make an unchristian remark about Protestants who have been known to discriminate against me for being a catholic.I pointed out to him once that he had been known to say a person was,“in it for the money”.Of course,when he did it he was just telling the truth.If we got rid of the double standards,we would have a better chance of finding peace.I tend to cringe when someone plays the
role “i am so unbigoted”.However,i think i have managed to tie my
tongue in a knot most of the time.There are the genuine :confused: :confused: :confused: non-bigots.I can understand my friend’s discomfort,his wife is a convert to the catholic church,but then so was my great-gran.
 
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JoaoMachado:
Everyone is welcomed on the merry go round 😉 , but wouldn’t you agreen that we are all on the same side? We just need to get going in the right direction… :yup:

Joao
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Yup I most certainly do agree. :clapping:
 
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Apologia100:
And you wonder why there are 38,000 Christian sects. Just look at the legalism in the two frequent posters above. We can argue semantics all day. I am not an etimologist, it just seems apparent that infallible connotes the inability to make misakes, while inerrancy connotes the quality of being free from mistakes.
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Indeed, and our inability to agree as a group on thi sminor matter is evidence that no two people will agree on the definition of many words. hence without a final arbiter (authority) we will continue to bicker ad nauseum. Since Scripture contains words, and we cant agree on what those words mean (let alone hopw to translate them), the concept of Sola Scriptura is flawed. It defies Jesus desire for unity.
 
There are (thankfully) so many people smarter than me, a few of whom have spoken above.

I like to jump into the discussion at this level: what does the Bible mean in your life? Obviously, it is important to most writers in this thread.

I am glad the Lord confuses us enough to keep us humble.
 
The one thing I’m concluding here is that Catholics need to get some good Bible studies floating around. The Catholic Church does a great job with the Cathechism (it’s available), which Protestants DON’T have, but more Catholic Bible study would be great, so people would understand the “senses” of Scripture, (allegory, hyperbole) etc. as well as Salvation history, typology, etc.

Jeff Cavins was at our last home school conference and presented a Bible study he wrote, which looks great. Also, being a home schooler, I am familiar with the Protestant curriculums and know that they have for elementary aged childred some great, colorful, interesting, thorough and comprehensive thought provoking Bible studies starting in Kindegarten. Of course I can’t use them, but oh, I would do anything to have Catholic Bible studies like that! (Great way to get the parents to learn their Scripture, too, starting from scratch).
Anybody out there interested in writing one? It would sell like wildfire at the home school conferences. Ask Jeff Cavins. (His is for adults).

Peace in Christ +
 
This post has to do with the 30,000 denominations.

The catholic church teaches the same thing no matter where you go. The different rites teach the same doctrines, the all follow the pope in all teachings. The difference is cultural and the style of there liturgy. These don’t change anything. Someone above listed the latin rite and the byzantine rite as separate denominations. Separate denominations beleive different things. Separate rites of the catholic church all believe the same. Furththermore, if you are not in communion with the pope then you are not catholic. The sedevacantists are not catholic. If there are differences within the church then they are problems that have been created by the individual. There are some differences like where some bishops refuse communion to pro abortion politicians, which was mentioned by coach above. These issues have not been defined by the church as to what to do with them, so since they have not been defined as of now then they are up to the individual bishops. But that does not change the faith.
As for the protsestants, you must include the non-denominational as different denominations because they all believe different things. If you do then the 30,000 denominations is accurate, and in my opinion it is actually a little low.
 
The 30,000 Protestant denominations is indeed very low, and the reason is because each individual Protestant should probably be counted individually as his own denomination. That would be a more accurate indication of what Protestantism is. It is based upon the private interpretation of each individual - each person determining on his own what the text means. And each coming to slightly different conclusions.

Perhaps it is more correct to call each individual Protestant church a denomination. This is not because what I said before is incorrect, but more because that there are leaders and there are followers. In a Protestant church, the leader is the pastor, and he determines what is taught and believed in that particular church. The followers are those willing to accept the pastor’s teachings. That church then has a particular set of beliefs and teachings. Those who do not agree with the pastor are free to leave - and often do, becoming the leaders of their own church and believing differently than the church they just left.

Sometimes it is the opposite, with the congregation outsting the pastor and bringing in another who agrees with them, but the concept and the effect are the same - each Protestant church has a different set of beliefs than any of the others. Thus each is its own denomination.

30,000 is much too low.
 
Denomination - A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

Coach, as you can see by definition the Catholic Church is only one. It is united under one common faith and name “Catholic Church” and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

The same can not be said of Protestant groups. That is why they are considered to number in the thousands. Exactly? who knows. One crops up all the time.

Main reason they are splintered is because they rely on Scripture alone and not on the authority of the Church.
 
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Shibboleth:
Lutherans have a Catechism.
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Yes, I know. I’m just saying it’s not something that they promote as a study. They pretty much do Bible study and that’s it. Their Sunday school programs generally do not utilize it either. When I was in the process of leaving the Lutheran Church to go back to the Catholic Church, I found out there was a catechism only when I inquired, and then I ended up finding Luther’s Small Catechism at a garage sale.

Peace in Christ +
 
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