"The Bible's Buried Secrets" says the Bible is not true - PBS

[strngrnrth]

I don’t think that very many Christian North Americans believe the Bible to be without error and to be taken literally.

A child knows that dinosaurs did not live with humans and yet some funamentalists think that they should be taken seriously when they state that it is a Biblical fact, that dinosaurs lived among humans…6000 years ago.

There is a lot of room – and therefore, a lot of people take their positions – between the extremes of trying to disprove any history in the Bible and trying to disprove that any history was left out of the Bible. Some fundamentalists believe dinosaurs lived among us because they don’t speak any Hebrew, nor do they understand how the Hebrew culture interrelated historic, moral and poetical writing. Some anti-Christians believe that there is no historic fact in the bible worth speaking of because they also don’t understand the languages and traditions involved, and because they are terrified that there may be a meaning to everything in existence.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

I officially boycott ever watching PBS for anything

I was watching the Ken Burns series on the Lewis and Clark expedition. It seemed to be historically accurate.

If you’re going to watch anything on tv, always view it with a critical eye.

Just because PBS airs some shows that we find offensive, doesn’t mean everything on PBS is bad.

One thing to do is write a letter to your local PBS station and let them know how you feel. If you support PBS then you may want to let them know that you’ll no longer support this kind of programing.

 

[ICXCNIKA]

Even if the old testament turned out to be nothing more than metaphorical tales written by an ancient society…so what of it?

It is a part of our Christian foundation and one that speaks of how an ancient society related to and viewed God.

The Bible is still true, but perhaps some of the Bible is not literally true.

I’ve read this ’ Everything in the Bible is true and some of it actually happened.'

If it turned out to be nothing more than metaphorical tales…it would change nothing for me…it is through those stories that we may learn to approach God and the sacred.

But what if it turned out that the Resurrection was nothing but a metaphorical tale. Would anything change for you then?

 

[KingAlfred]

I don’t think that very many Christian North Americans believe the Bible to be without error and to be taken literally.

A child knows that dinosaurs did not live with humans and yet some funamentalists think that they should be taken seriously when they state that it is a Biblical fact, that dinosaurs lived among humans…6000 years ago.

Amen.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t think that very many Christian North Americans believe the Bible to be without error and to be taken literally.

A child knows that dinosaurs did not live with humans and yet some funamentalists think that they should be taken seriously when they state that it is a Biblical fact, that dinosaurs lived among humans…6000 years ago.

How does a child know this? Independently?

 

[rpp]

I officially boycott ever watching PBS for anything

I started doing this a long time ago.

I think now I might call them during one of those crazy fund raisers and tell them that I will never donate to their anti-Christian propaganda machine.

 

[peary]

If you read the Old Testament with tunnel vision, you get what you see. There is such a vast wealth of stories about Faith and one’s relationship with God. The Old Testament, not only being a history of the Chosen People’s relationship with God, is also a teaching tool for Faith. This is something PBS will never ‘get’. It’s like arguing over Goldy Locks and the Three Bears - as to whether or not the story is true or just a fable, bypassing the question - what does it teach us?

 

[Telemachus]

The “Toledoths” of Genesis

New Evidence of Genesis Genealogies To Be Understood as an Accurate Calendar of History

Buff: thanks for the links! I’ll be reading through those soon.

Just reading through this thread shows you why I’m so confused about what is and is not necessarily “valid” (wide open to interpretation, I know) concerning the Old Testament.

This is the axis upon which my study of the Bible is currently rotating: C.S. Lewis’ idea of a main “historical continuum of God” (my interpretation) flowing throughout the Bible as a whole. Key points on this continuum are, for instance, the Exodus, the reign of King David, and the Babylonian captivity. Thus, show that the major dots are legit, and it becomes pretty easy to connect said dots into a cohesive whole, which is what Christians believe the Bible to be.

I’m convinced this is the case just from the little evidence I’ve seen, but I’m wondering if there is an almost comprehensive resource that systematically lays out what we know about extra-Biblical history that parallels the Old Testament. A Summa Biblica (I’m ignorant of Latin ) so to speak.

When you are talking to people that have almost no familiarity with the Bible, it helps to be able to point to things like pillars and tombs and such that refer back to Biblical events as support for the validity of the Bible. Otherwise, the Bible seemingly exists in a vacuum. I think this is why most skeptics don’t even begin to analyze the history of the Bible: they believe axiomatically that the Bible is totally disembodied from human history, and therefore has no application in “the real world.”

 

[tobinatorstark]

I started doing this a long time ago.

I think now I might call them during one of those crazy fund raisers and tell them that I will never donate to their anti-Christian propaganda machine.

Wow we have the same views on that. I am not going to stand for people who tell me that the Bible is a hoax and demonstrate unchristianlike views

 

[buffalo]

Buff: thanks for the links! I’ll be reading through those soon.

Just reading through this thread shows you why I’m so confused about what is and is not necessarily “valid” (wide open to interpretation, I know) concerning the Old Testament.

This is the axis upon which my study of the Bible is currently rotating: C.S. Lewis’ idea of a main “historical continuum of God” (my interpretation) flowing throughout the Bible as a whole. Key points on this continuum are, for instance, the Exodus, the reign of King David, and the Babylonian captivity. Thus, show that the major dots are legit, and it becomes pretty easy to connect said dots into a cohesive whole, which is what Christians believe the Bible to be.

I’m convinced this is the case just from the little evidence I’ve seen, but I’m wondering if there is an almost comprehensive resource that systematically lays out what we know about extra-Biblical history that parallels the Old Testament. A Summa Biblica (I’m ignorant of Latin ) so to speak.

When you are talking to people that have almost no familiarity with the Bible, it helps to be able to point to things like pillars and tombs and such that refer back to Biblical events as support for the validity of the Bible. Otherwise, the Bible seemingly exists in a vacuum. I think this is why most skeptics don’t even begin to analyze the history of the Bible: they believe axiomatically that the Bible is totally disembodied from human history, and therefore has no application in “the real world.”

PBS ran a program called “Walking the Bible”. I think there was a book, too. The host visited sights. If I remember correctly, he showed an Exodus site and some writings about Joseph on a column in Egypt.

 

[jmcrae]

The comment is about archeological evidence, not historical evidence. Things like camp sites, villages, etc.

The Egyptians could not remove all trace of a large group of people travelling through the desert for a period of 40 years.

No, but 3500 years of people and animals crossing and recrossing the desert could - especially since the Israelites weren’t carrying anything with them that was durable - they lived in animal skin tents; not stone houses, and they were on the move; they weren’t settled down anywhere. They were also poor, which means that they probably wouldn’t have left a lot of garbage behind - they would have put every scrap to some kind of use.

 

[peary]

**Many people do not believe the Exodus took place. They often claim that there is no historical evidence, other than that found in the Bible. But there is evidence of the Exodus as stated by Grant Jeffrey in his book “Unveiling Mysteries of the Bible”. An important Egyptian historical manuscript was discovered in Egypt more than a century ago.

Remarkably, this ancient papyrus parallels the history of the Exodus account as found in the Scriptures. This manuscript recorded the writings of an ancient Egyptian named Ipuwer. The papyrus manuscript, now called the Ipuwer Papyrus, was discovered by someone named Anastasi in the area of Memphis, near the pyramids of Saqqara in Egypt.

The museum of Leiden in the Netherlands acquired the papyrus in 1828. It was translated and published in English for the first time in 1909 by Professor Alan H. Gardiner. Gardiner wrote that the manuscript was one that recorded a genuine historical catastrophe when the whole country of Egypt was in distress and violence. “It is no merely local disturbance that is here described, but a great and overwhelming national disaster.”

Gardiner suggests that Ipuwer was an Egyptian sage who directed his writing to the king as a complaint that the national catastrophe was in part caused by the king’s failure to act and deal with the crisis.

A comparison of several key passages from the Biblical Book of Exodus with the ancient Egyptian papyrus reveals remarkable correspondences and parallels that point to a real historical catastrophe.

1. The Plague of Blood

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:5-6, it says: Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere. Compare this with the Book of Exodus 7:21: *There was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. *

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: The River is Blood. Compare with Exodus 7:20: *All the waters that were in the river were turned to blood. *

In Ipuwer Papyrus 2:10, it says: Men shrank from tasting…and thirst for water. Compare with Exodus 7:24: *And all the Egyptians digged round about the river for water to drink; for they could not drink of the water of the river. *

1. The Plague of Hail

Ipuwer papyrus 9:23: The fire ran along the ground. There was hail, and fire mingled with the hail. Exodus 9:25: *And the hail smote every herb on the field, and brake every tree in the field. *

1. The Plague of Darkness

Ipuwer Papyrus 9:11: The land is not light. Exodus 10:22: *And there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt. *

1. The Plague of Egyptian Cattle

Ipuwer papyrus 5:5: *All animals, their hearts weep. Cattle moan. *Exodus 9:3: *Behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be grievous murrain (disease). *

1. The Plague of the Firstborn of Egypt

Ipuwer Papyrus 2:13: He who places his brother in the ground is everywhere. Exodus 12:27: He (the angel of the Lord) smote the Egyptians. Ipuwer Papyrus 4:3: *Forsooth, the children of princes are dashed against the walls. *Exodus 12:29: *At midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt. *Ipuwer Papyrus 6:12: Forsooth, the children of the princes are cast out in the streets, Exodus 12:30: *There was not a house where there was not one dead. *

1. Response of the Egyptians to the Loss of their First born

Ipuwer Papyrus 3:14: It is groaning that is throughout the land, mingled with lamentations. Exodus 12:30: *There was a great cry in Egypt. *

In light of the ample evidence accumulated from ancient Jewish and Greek historians, together with the Ipuwer Papyrus that parallels several of the 10 Biblical plagues, it is clear that there is compelling non-Biblical evidence to confirm the scriptural account about the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt. Further proof of the Exodus is the fact; the Jews have annually celebrated three great festivals in commemoration of their Exodus (Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles) for 3500 years. Therefore, logically, the public observance of the Exodus Passover festival can only be explained if the Jewish people actually participated in these historical events as recorded in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. **

 

[Orogeny]

No, but 3500 years of people and animals crossing and recrossing the desert could - especially since the Israelites weren’t carrying anything with them that was durable - they lived in animal skin tents; not stone houses, and they were on the move; they weren’t settled down anywhere. They were also poor, which means that they probably wouldn’t have left a lot of garbage behind - they would have put every scrap to some kind of use.

I’m not so sure about that. They did have enough gold to make an idol.

Peace

Tim

 

[strngrnrth]

I’m not so sure about that. They did have enough gold to make an idol.

Peace

Tim

They melted the calf down and donated the gold to build the Tabernacle.
Bits of Egyptian-type jewelry have been found in the Arabian desert from the period. Whether these fell off Israelites or Egyptians or any number of other peoples who traded and warred with Egyptians and Israelites is another question.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

They melted the calf down and donated the gold to build the Tabernacle.

Actually, what happened was “he (Moses) took the calf which they had made, and burnt it with fire, and ground it to powder, and scattered it upon the water, and made the people of Israel drink it.” Exodus 32:20

 

[jblake]

jmcrae;:

they probably wouldn’t have left a lot of garbage behind

The major problem from an archeological POV, is the absence of human and animal waste that correlates to the numbers that are provided in the Biblical account.

If, as some have suggested, that most of that period of wandering was spent in what is now Saudi Arabia, then the absence of that waste in what is now southern Israel is understandable.

Especially since a cursory reading of the Biblical account demonstrates that where most archeologists claim the "Red Sea’ was crossed, is nowhere near where the Bible says it was crossed. (And yes, I realize that Biblical geography is more about theological bias of the observer, than it is about the evidence on the ground.)

xan

jonathon

 

[jmcrae]

The major problem from an archeological POV, is the absence of human and animal waste that correlates to the numbers that are provided in the Biblical account.

What if they, or someone coming after them, burned it for fuel?

3500 years is a really long time - it could have also just decomposed, or been eaten by some kind of insects, etc.

 

[jblake]

jmcrae;:

What if they, or someone coming after them, burned it for fuel?

Exodus 12:37: The Israelites traveled from Rameses to Succoth, about 600,000 soldiers on foot, besides their families.
Exodus 12:38 An ethnically diverse crowd also went up with them, along with a huge number of livestock, both flocks and herds.

That usually gets rounded off to between 1.2 and 1.5 million people. That also means that you are looking at more than one million kilograms of human waste per day.

Archeologists have been unable to locate evidence of that amount of waste, or indications that that amount of waste was either burned, or otherwise used.

xan

jonathon

 

[po18guy]

Producer Paula Apsell (World renowned theologian???) said: “…It’s (The Bible’s Buried Secrets) designed for intelligent people who are willing to change their mind. …it will give intelligent people who want to read the Bible in a modern way a chance. If we insist on reading the Bible literally, in 25 years, nobody will read it any longer.”

A quote also heard in the pre-Christian era, and in each age since. :yawn:

This is blatant prostitution before their most serious donors. The “PBS” symbol should be a red porch light.

And, your tax dollars are at work here.

 

[peary]

The major problem from an archeological POV, is the absence of human and animal waste that correlates to the numbers that are provided in the Biblical account.

If, as some have suggested, that most of that period of wandering was spent in what is now Saudi Arabia, then the absence of that waste in what is now southern Israel is understandable.

Especially since a cursory reading of the Biblical account demonstrates that where most archeologists claim the "Red Sea’ was crossed, is nowhere near where the Bible says it was crossed. (And yes, I realize that Biblical geography is more about theological bias of the observer, than it is about the evidence on the ground.)

xan

jonathon

**If the Exodus occurred during the explosion of the Thera volcano 3600 years ago. The crossing of a sea of water could either be the Red Sea or the Sea of Reeds (now dried up and gone because it was drained by the Suez Canal). The latter would have been affected by tsunamis in tghe Mediterranean region.

I tend to believe that the Exodus is based on fact, and that it was definitely connected with the explosion of the Thera volcano in the Aegean Sea. There are just too many coincidences.**