The Bishops Listen, Start New Direction on Abortion

[chicago]

Brad:

As long as they have the legal option of discarding their problem quickly and easily and all their contacts are telling them it’s ok, it’s just a blob of tissue, they will not seek out the help that is readily available from numerous pro-llife crisis pregnancy centers, mom’s houses etc. Having the law changed and ministering to unknowledgeble young people are 2 different issues that often need different approaches.

I’m not sure that I entirely agree with this. For, while it is true that we need the laws changed to further protect such women and, ideally, direct them to where real help is available, certain crisis pregnancy centers like The Women’s Center in Chicago

womens-center.org/

have shown very well just how reachable many women who are intent upon having an abortion are.

Obviously, there is a complementary effort required here, but I do think that the first step in getting the public to support changes in legislation to the degree that it will actually happen is to show them the good fruits of organizations like the Women’s Center and how they provide real results and real options which are good for women. For the woman in trial is the person whom most people can readily see a problem and be willing to reach out to see her assisted with real help.

I also don’t know of anyone who would typically make a sidewalk counselor out to be an extremist.

 

[fix]

For decades the bishops have allowed poor catechesis and no catechesis to continue around the country. The Catholic faithful have not been taught. Now, the bishops want to try a different approach? I hope this approach is more effective than their teaching efforts have been on issues like on contraception, homosexual conduct, divorce, etc.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Brad,

I am with you on this one!

The simple truth is this: Fifteen years ago 63-68% of all Americans felt that abortion on demand should be a legal right for women. Today, only 51-54% feel that way (depending on the survey you use). Those numbers represent MILLIONS of converted hearts and those hearts were not converted by the Church or the Bishops–they were converted by the incredibly hard work and courage of pro-lifers who are willing to suffer all sorts of persecution and horrible illness inducing weather to pray outside of clinics, etc…I love our Lord and His Church with all my heart, yet that does not mean I am blind to see where Jesus’ Church has not stood as firmly as it should. In terms of life, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has been a heart-wrenching disappointment. These are not absolute statements, there certainly have been “some” brave Bishops, yet precious few Bishops have really stepped-out in faith to stop the mass murder of unborn babies through abortion. The Bishops behaivor during the fall elections is proof if these points.

I wonder, if Jesus was a approached by an adulterer, would He tell that person to stop being an adulterer, or would He water down the truth of adultery?

Or I wonder, when it came to Cain and Abel–did God consider that murder, or something else?

I agree that to tell a pro-abort person a murdered rarely serves any productive purpose, yet the bottom-line truth is they support baby murder…period. Jesus never watered down truth.

I hope this effort will help…yet for thrity years many of our Bishops have looked the other way regarding abortion, contraceptive, divorce and re-marriage, the sanctity of marriage, and the homosexual agendas–so I am taking a wait and see approach.

I would feel much better about things if the Bishops took an aggresive stance to bring back preaching about mortal sin and the consequences of mortal sin to a person’s eternal life…if more Catholics realized what they can lose, perhaps they would be more careful with God’s life.

We will know the culture is changing when we see long lines for confession–until that day nothing will change.

 

[fix]

TPJCatholic:

Brad,

I am with you on this one!

The simple truth is this: Fifteen years ago 63-68% of all Americans felt that abortion on demand should be a legal right for women. Today, only 51-54% feel that way (depending on the survey you use). Those numbers represent MILLIONS of converted hearts and those hearts were not converted by the Church or the Bishops–they were converted by the incredibly hard work and courage of pro-lifers who are willing to suffer all sorts of persecution and horrible illness inducing weather to pray outside of clinics, etc…I love our Lord and His Church with all my heart, yet that does not mean I am blind to see where Jesus’ Church has not stood as firmly as it should. In terms of life, the Roman Catholic Church in the United States has been a heart-wrenching disappointment. These are not absolute statements, there certainly have been “some” brave Bishops, yet precious few Bishops have really stepped-out in faith to stop the mass murder of unborn babies through abortion. The Bishops behaivor during the fall elections is proof if these points.

I wonder, if Jesus was a approached by an adulterer, would He tell that person to stop being an adulterer, or would He water down the truth of adultery?

Or I wonder, when it came to Cain and Abel–did God consider that murder, or something else?

I agree that to tell a pro-abort person a murdered rarely serves any productive purpose, yet the bottom-line truth is they support baby murder…period. Jesus never watered down truth.

I hope this effort will help…yet for thrity years many of our Bishops have looked the other way regarding abortion, contraceptive, divorce and re-marriage, the sanctity of marriage, and the homosexual agendas–so I am taking a wait and see approach.

I would feel much better about things if the Bishops took an aggresive stance to bring back preaching about mortal sin and the consequences of mortal sin to a person’s eternal life…if more Catholics realized what they can lose, perhaps they would be more careful with God’s life.

We will know the culture is changing when we see long lines for confession–until that day nothing will change.

Well done.

 

[katherine2]

I guess we all have different experiences. Maybe the presence of some “stiff-necked” people in a parish makes a pastor reluctant to preach about any hot button issue, to the annoyance of the right or the left.

In my parish, I am sure not a single person is unaware of the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion, nor is any Catholic I know of or for that matter any non-Catholic. The Church’s stance on abortion is better known than it stance on the Holy Trinity!!

Our pastor, while preaching on the readings and not some topic of his choice, still has no problem relating the readings to contemporay issues such as abortion, war, social injustice, married life, vocations, racism, community life, etc.

yet I do not think we have many "stiff-necked’ people in my parish. If we do, theyhave kept it hidden from me.
I don’t think apporaching people who are not with us on life issues and asking them to take a second look at the abortion question (with the implication that they are thoughtful, rational people who can be animiated by ethics and morality) is a watering down of the Church’s teachings. Others are free to disagree.

 

[Brad]

chicago:

I also don’t know of anyone who would typically make a sidewalk counselor out to be an extremist.

The majority of pro-abortion activists think they are.

 

[Brad]

rlg94086:

I understand abortion is murder, and sometimes it does work to shock someone with the truth with strong words. IMHO most of the time, it drives them away. How does this help? The pro-life Catholics that pray the rosary outside of clinics and counsel people with love are better witnesses.

95% of demonstrators/protestors are of the ilk you described above. What I am objecting to is Katherine2 implying that most of these people simply shout “murderer” or act in some other vulgar manner, similar to pro-abortion demonstraters. If she is not implying that the demonstraters are doing this, then who is? Does she or you object to pro-life groups calling abortion murder in the media? If so, I don’t understand why. Planned Parenthood doesn’t tell anyone that the child is losing his/her life in the act of an abortion. Judges and lawyers are not defeding the unborn child and the unborn child cannot speak - so who is to say what it is while the babies are being killed? The reason most hearts are not swayed is because they bury deep what is really happening.

Why do you think most priests don’t talk about it? It is because people have buried guilt and they are afraid of offending these people. This calls for intervention, not persuasion. The offended people are not presenting themselves available to be persuaded. They need to be convicted by the Gospel of Christ.

rlg94086:

Now on the Hillary matter…more power to the college. They should be able to ban/welcome whomever they want. It is still a free country! I just wish so many colleges take the opposite viewpoints and ban conservatives from speaking. This happens more often.

God Bless,

Robert.

This is a Catholic college. If it were a secular college, it wouldn’t be an issue. If they allowed rebuttal, it wouldn’t be an issue. The issues is they are giving her a platform to speak at a Catholic College on Catholic issues (corporal works of mercy), implying she is a credible witness to these issues. It is not more power to the college - it is contradictory to their true mission.

I do not support arbitary banning of speakers based on political party.

 

[TPJCatholic]

Brad,

I agree with you that people should never be banned from speaking anywhere based on their political party. However, they should be banned from speaking at any Catholic institution when they stand strongly against Catholic truths. That is the charitable thing to do for those people attending the institution and it is the charitable thing to do for the person in question (be it Hillary or anyone else). One cannot find the path to eternal life if we constantly obscure the path.

 

[Brad]

katherine2:

I guess we all have different experiences. Maybe the presence of some “stiff-necked” people in a parish makes a pastor reluctant to preach about any hot button issue, to the annoyance of the right or the left.

The pastor should teach the truth, especially as it perains to issues of the day, irregardless of the attitudes of whom he pastors. Otherwise, his teaching is irrelevant.

katherine2:

In my parish, I am sure not a single person is unaware of the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion, nor is any Catholic I know of or for that matter any non-Catholic. The Church’s stance on abortion is better known than it stance on the Holy Trinity!!

And yet there are Catholics that vote for, support the campaigns for with dollars, and work for politicians that promote abortion. Simply knowing the Church’s stance is not enough information for them.

katherine2:

Our pastor, while preaching on the readings and not some topic of his choice, still has no problem relating the readings to contemporay issues such as abortion, war, social injustice, married life, vocations, racism, community life, etc.

I have seen many a pastor draw a walk when he could have easily hit a home run by relating issues of the day to the very readings of the Mass that looked like a basketball coming in at 10 miles per hour.

katherine2:

yet I do not think we have many "stiff-necked’ people in my parish. If we do, theyhave kept it hidden from me.
I don’t think apporaching people who are not with us on life issues and asking them to take a second look at the abortion question (with the implication that they are thoughtful, rational people who can be animiated by ethics and morality) is a watering down of the Church’s teachings. Others are free to disagree.

Would you ask them nicely to take a second look at the history of the civil war if they owned slaves - perhaps give them brochures from the Gettysburg museum? Or would you say slavery is wrong and then explain why?

 

[Brad]

TPJCatholic:

Brad,

I agree with you that people should never be banned from speaking anywhere based on their political party. However, they should be banned from speaking at any Catholic institution when they stand strongly against Catholic truths. That is the charitable thing to do for those people attending the institution and it is the charitable thing to do for the person in question (be it Hillary or anyone else). One cannot find the path to eternal life if we constantly obscure the path.

I agree!

 

[katherine2]

Brad:

The pastor should teach the truth, especially as it perains to issues of the day, irregardless of the attitudes of whom he pastors. Otherwise, his teaching is irrelevant.

And such is th ecase in my parish. Its others, whom I often find have a certain tone towards other issues, who seem to have the complaints.

I have seen many a pastor draw a walk when he could have easily hit a home run by relating issues of the day to the very readings of the Mass that looked like a basketball coming in at 10 miles per hour.

Maybe you should make the case to teh Vatican that laymen like you are better qualified to preach than ordained ministers.

Would you ask them nicely to take a second look at the history of the civil war if they owned slaves - perhaps give them brochures from the Gettysburg museum? Or would you say slavery is wrong and then explain why?

I firmly applaud the bishop’s second look campaign. Its long overdue. I’m osrry you have not felt to join with me in my regard for this. If you have better means, go off and practice them.

 

[katherine2]

95% of demonstrators/protestors are of the ilk you described above. What I am objecting to is Katherine2 implying that most of these people simply shout “murderer” or act in some other vulgar manner,

I never used the word “most”, I said some. I also didn’t say some other things you have inacurrately accused me of. I will say this. If you can’t accurately related the statements of a fellow pro-lifer, how can we have any confidence that we do not have some people damaging the pro-life movement by making statements about those not with us that are false and therfore hurt the credability of the whole movement?

Does she or you object to pro-life groups calling abortion murder in the media?

Its not a matter of objection. I recommend to the pro-life movement we do those things which cause people to consider our cause, not to shut their mind to it.

This calls for intervention, not persuasion.

My fear is that a certain element has given up on renewing soceity (or made it a secondary concern). What they care most deeply about is not expanding the pro-life community but expelling even those with tactical differences so to have a small, purified Catholic community that does not engage with world but cuts it off.

If they allowed rebuttal, it wouldn’t be an issue.

My understanding is that a rebuttal is being allowed.

The issues is they are giving her a platform to speak at a Catholic College on Catholic issues (corporal works of mercy), implying she is a credible witness to these issues.

I think she is a credible witness to the issues she is speaking on.

 

[Brad]

katherine2:

Maybe you should make the case to teh Vatican that laymen like you are better qualified to preach than ordained ministers.

Funny how you can evaluate a pastor’s teaching but I’m not allowed to. In any event, I would not do what you suggest. I agree with all the moral, doctrinal, and liturgical teachings of the Church.

katherine2:

I firmly applaud the bishop’s second look campaign. Its long overdue. I’m osrry you have not felt to join with me in my regard for this. If you have better means, go off and practice them.

Nice dodge. I know you firmly applaud the campaign. As I said, I support it too. What I do not support is undermining the efforts of pro-life groups in the process.

 

[chicago]

Brad:

The majority of pro-abortion activists think they are.

Given. I meant among pro-lifers and the generally ambivilent; not hardline radical pro-aborts who will, naturally, view any pro-life activity as extreme.

 

[Brad]

katherine2:

I never used the word “most”, I said some. I also didn’t say some other things you have inacurrately accused me of. I will say this. If you can’t accurately related the statements of a fellow pro-lifer, how can we have any confidence that we do not have some people damaging the pro-life movement by making statements about those not with us that are false and therfore hurt the credability of the whole movement?

You implied most by using harsh words to describe some pro-lifers and suggesting that any approach that labels abortion as murder to not be effective. The pro-life movement is not damaged - it is doing quite well. It simply needs more members.

katherine2:

My fear is that a certain element has given up on renewing soceity (or made it a secondary concern). What they care most deeply about is not expanding the pro-life community but expelling even those with tactical differences so to have a small, purified Catholic community that does not engage with world but cuts it off.

I agree that many of the pro-life groups do not properly work together. This does not mean we should throw out what works but simply work towards better harmonization and collective effort. However, it is very difficult to believe someone is pro-life when they vote for those that support, promote, and fund abortions.

katherine2:

My understanding is that a rebuttal is being allowed.

I have not heard so. Who is doing the rebuttal?

 

[reggie]

Abortion is a really emotional issue and some people can get very worked up trying to get their point across. I have had an abortion and so I understand how angry and hurt women are that they were misinformed or coerced into feeling that abortion was not only a very viable option, it was the best possible for everyone, including the baby! I am not one to shout murderer, but I understand the intense desire to make people understand. Every day, thousands of young women make a choice that they will one day, if not immediately, regret. There is no taking it back. One day they will look at their children and realize that they deprived them of a brother or sister. They have deprived their parents of a grandchild. And they have deprived the world of a person that may have done great things but at the very least would have brought someone joy. When you have felt the movement of a baby inside of you, there is an urgency to stop this insanity, to make people wake up and to save as many of the babies of the future as we can since we cannot save the ones from the past, including our own.

 

[Lisa_N]

katherine2:

In my parish, I am sure not a single person is unaware of the Catholic Church’s opposition to abortion, nor is any Catholic I know of or for that matter any non-Catholic. The Church’s stance on abortion is better known than it stance on the Holy Trinity!!

Well I had to laugh at your last statement. I think the issue of abortion is far easier to explain than the Holy Trinity! Killing innocent human beings is wrong. Abortion kills a human being. Abortion is wrong. Now 'splain the Trinity in 15 words or less!

As to the thread, I think that the approach depends on the situation and the receiver of the information. For example if a group stands outside an abortion clinic and screams “Murderer” to everyone who walks in the door, I suspect they won’t make too many converts. OTOH I saw an EWTN show on sidewalk counselling where the counsellor quietly approached women, asked if they were there for a pregnancy test and told the women that pregnancy tests were free across the street at their women’s center. They also had information on that particular clinic’s record of complications, deaths, etc that they gave to the women. Now I don’t know the percentage of women’s minds changed but I think this is clearly a more effective tactic.

However no reason to softpedal the message when you have the opportunity to educate. Photos of babies in the womb, as well as photos of hacked up babies following abortion are pretty darned effective. People have bought the “blob of tissue” argument way too long. I know I was as dumb as anyone and thought that an abortion was little more than a heavy period.

I think there is a multipronged approach needed but when dealing with emotional, vulnerable pregnant women I suspect the kindler gentler approach is more successful. Most women do want a CHOICE they are just not told that there ARE options other than abortion.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

reggie:

Abortion is a really emotional issue and some people can get very worked up trying to get their point across. I have had an abortion and so I understand how angry and hurt women are that they were misinformed or coerced into feeling that abortion was not only a very viable option, it was the best possible for everyone, including the baby! I am not one to shout murderer, but I understand the intense desire to make people understand. Every day, thousands of young women make a choice that they will one day, if not immediately, regret. There is no taking it back. One day they will look at their children and realize that they deprived them of a brother or sister. They have deprived their parents of a grandchild. And they have deprived the world of a person that may have done great things but at the very least would have brought someone joy. When you have felt the movement of a baby inside of you, there is an urgency to stop this insanity, to make people wake up and to save as many of the babies of the future as we can since we cannot save the ones from the past, including our own.

What a powerful post! Thank you for sharing such painful information. I suspect you are much like the average woman who has an abortion. They are NOT told all of the ramifications and they are NOT told of their choices, of the support available.

Just curious about the approach I should take with a friend. I found out from a mutual friend that she has had an abortion in the past. She was MARRIED and it was the parents of the couple who pushed the abortion because they were young, newly married and not totally financially stable. She clearly regrets this, particularly as she has a beautiful little boy now. I want to be able to direct her to some of the support groups like Project Rachel but I am not supposed to even know about the abortion. I just hope I can get her to confide in me as well. I have found out so many friends who had abortions in the past and to a one they have agonized and beat themselves up for the decision.

Lisa N

 

[sleepless]

Let’s stop sugar coating and get to the real solution. If you can’t stand the fire, get out of the kitchen. The Laity should speak the truth, always about everything.

Sleepless

 

[HagiaSophia]

Brad:

If it hadn’t been for pro-life groups, countless lives would not have been saved. These people have given large parts of their lives to give the unborn a voice when most of the rest of the world was too cowardly or lazy to care.

People always want to rediscover the wheel and then think they are "self made. Every successsful group stands on the shoulders of those that went before it; the pro life movement today stands squarely on the shoulders of those who while they were pictured as some daft fringe element, as some bunch of crazies, insisted, demanded and lobbied for the lives of those who are defenseless and unable to speak for themselves.

Remember just a few short years ago, Governor Casey was not allowed to address the convention of his own party - the election campaign this year was quite a different matter. Any success we have in the present or in the future is due to the eofforts of those who pointed us in the right direction in the first place.