The Body of Christ And The Church

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PJM said:
The SAD REALITY is that of course their is.

We hold that God is One

“One [Perfect at that] God” cannot possibly hold differing views on the same defined issues.

Jesus invented the therm “church” [Mt. 16;18-19] to make clear the following

Pagans would have their temples and a varity of ever-changing beliefs

Bias in the Bible: Why say “Church” instead of “Synagogue”?

interesting that you would say that Jesus invented the term church–

because the translators had also used the term congregation

message entitled “Torah Portion Vayakhel/Pekudei”, from March 9, 2013.

youtu.be/3zb7OV3kw78

To view the full message, go to youtu.be/tdccOILfqmE.

it is really tough and difficult to get the correct interpretation of scripture-

it does help to see what a hebrew appoligious has to say–or how the translators converted the words–

oh well-- if every "-body-" had the Holy Spirit then there would be no confusion
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1answer said:
. . .it is really tough and difficult to get the correct interpretation of scripture-

it does help to see what a hebrew appoligious has to say–or how the translators converted the words–

oh well-- if every "-body-" had the Holy Spirit then there would be no confusion
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1answer,

Appreciate your comments. Would you say the Body of Christ and the Church are one and the same?

Anna
 
Isaiah45_9;10531256** said:
**In all honesty, I don’t think I have a position other than to obey what the Lord commands. **
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As such, my position is one of obedience and not one of agreement.

May the Lord lift your spirit from “under the weather” 🙂

On this friend, you and I agree.

Thank you for your blessing…I feel much better today.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Steve,
Are you saying that those who do not have a “valid Eucharist,” in the eyes of the Catholic Church, are not part of the one Body of Christ?

Anna
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I can see that I have chosen my words inappropriately. Let me be very clear. One is part of the Body of Christ through their Baptism. If, however, one has an invalid “Eucharist” they cannot be in full communion with those that do. If one is not in full communion how can they be one? One of the essential aspects of a “body” is that it is unified with its parts. My statement that we are not one body with those who have an invalid Eucharist was meant in that vein, however the statement on its face is not entirely true and you are right in questioning it. To the extent that we are one body, that body remains disjointed until we all share together in the true body and blood of the Lord which will unite us in one faith.

As I and others have said before, and you have agreed, we are one to the extent that we share in the faith handed down by the Apostles. The further one varies from that faith the more separated we become. As Catholics we believe that we have the fulness of that faith, whole and entire, while those who have separated themselves from this one faith are lacking in some aspect of that truth to varying degrees.

So, while we are all part of the Body of Christ through Baptism, that “body” cannot be said to be unified with all of its parts; or, as I said, it remains disjointed absent the unifying factor brought about by the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist where we are all truly one in Him.
 
SteveVH said:
I can see that I have chosen my words inappropriately. Let me be very clear. One is part of the Body of Christ through their Baptism. If, however, one has an invalid “Eucharist” they cannot be in full communion with those that do. If one is not in full communion how can they be one? One of the essential aspects of a “body” is that it is unified with its parts. My statement that we are not one body with those who have an invalid Eucharist was meant in that vein, however the statement on its face is not entirely true and you are right in questioning it. To the extent that we are one body, that body remains disjointed until we all share together in the true body and blood of the Lord which will unite us in one faith.

As I and others have said before, and you have agreed, we are one to the extent that we share in the faith handed down by the Apostles. The further one varies from that faith the more separated we become. As Catholics we believe that we have the fulness of that faith, whole and entire, while those who have separated themselves from this one faith are lacking in some aspect of that truth to varying degrees.

So, while we are all part of the Body of Christ through Baptism, that “body” cannot be said to be unified with all of its parts; or, as I said, it remains disjointed absent the unifying factor brought about by the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist where we are all truly one in Him.
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I believe this is a lot better stated 👍 This post leaves no room for confusion. You even confused me a little with your other post lol
 
aidanbradypop said:
I believe this is a lot better stated 👍 This post leaves no room for confusion. You even confused me a little with your other post lol
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Yeah, I answered that post in great haste and had someone else made the statement I would be asking the same questions. I will say that these are not easy questions to answer. In trying to use the analogy of the “body” to explain a spiritual principle, where we are part of the same “body” through Baptism, yet remain separated in faith, we run into problems. How are we really “one” when we remain separated? Can one plus one ever equal one? I’m sure others can explain this much better than I.

Maybe a better analogy would be a broken family. We are brothers and sisters but separated through a divorce, of sorts. Some of us are living with mom and some of us are living with dad and a few have run away from home altogether. So we are one by birth (Baptism), but living as strangers to one another. We no longer share a common meal. No one from the outside would perceive this as a united family, yet we remain brothers and sisters. 🤷
 
SteveVH said:
Yeah, I answered that post in great haste and had someone else made the statement I would be asking the same questions. I will say that these are not easy questions to answer. In trying to use the analogy of the “body” to explain a spiritual principle, where we are part of the same “body” through Baptism, yet remain separated in faith, we run into problems. How are we really “one” when we remain separated? Can one plus one ever equal one? I’m sure others can explain this much better than I.

Maybe a better analogy would be a broken family. We are brothers and sisters but separated through a divorce, of sorts. Some of us are living with mom and some of us are living with dad. Those living with mom are hearing all the bad things about dad and vice versa. So we are one by birth, but living as strangers to one another. No one from the outside would perceive this as a united family, yet we remain brothers and sisters. 🤷
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Yeah I agree. I had a priest explain it just as you did about the divorced parents.

I believe one major source of confusion stems from what exactly one believes about the Body of Christ and the meaning. The majority of Protestant denominations view the “Body” of Christ as the people or believers with Christ being the head. The laity would be the “Church” or Body and they stop there. I had one Baptist friend describe that the body of Christ is the priesthood of believers and Christ is the head.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Yeah I agree. I had a priest explain it just as you did about the divorced parents.

I believe one major source of confusion stems from what exactly one believes about the Body of Christ and the meaning. The majority of Protestant denominations view the “Body” of Christ as the people or believers with Christ being the head.
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How is that different from the Catholic view? I must be missing something.
 
SteveVH said:
How is that different from the Catholic view? I must be missing something.
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We as Catholics believe that as well but we do not stop there. Many Protestant believe that people are the “church” and there is not authoritive Church. Make sense now?
 
aidanbradypop said:
We as Catholics believe that as well but we do not stop there. Many Protestant believe that people are the “church” and there is not authoritive Church. Make sense now?
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Yes, you’re speaking of the myth of the “invisible” church to which anyone can belong as long as they profess some belief in Jesus Christ. 👍
 
SteveVH said:
Yes, you’re speaking of the myth of the “invisible” church to which anyone can belong as long as they profess some belief in Jesus Christ. 👍
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lol…easier when we read the same page right lol 👍
 
SteveVH said:
. . . My statement that we are not one body with those who have an invalid Eucharist was meant in that vein, however the statement on its face is not entirely true and you are right in questioning it. To the extent that we are one body, that body remains disjointed until we all share together in the true body and blood of the Lord which will unite us in one faith. . . .

So, while we are all part of the Body of Christ through Baptism, that “body” cannot be said to be unified with all of its parts; or, as I said, it remains disjointed absent the unifying factor brought about by the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist where we are all truly one in Him.
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Steve, I appreciate the clarification. 🙂
aidanbradypop said:
Y. . .I believe one major source of confusion stems from what exactly one believes about the Body of Christ and the meaning. The majority of Protestant denominations view the “Body” of Christ as the people or believers with Christ being the head. . . . .
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Which seems to be the Catholic view as well, unless I misunderstood. 🤷
Anna_Scott said:
. . . .

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR PROMOTING CHRISTIAN UNITY

". . . .On the other hand, the separated communities have on occasion better developed individual aspects of the revealed truth, so that the Catholic Church, under the circumstances of division, is unable to fully accomplish its intrinsic catholicity (UR, 4; UUS, 14). Therefore the church is in need of purification and renewal, and must constantly walk the path of penance (LG, 8; UR, 3 ff.,6 ff.;* UUS*, 34 ff., 83 ff.). . . .

. . . .From this eschatological and spiritual perspective the goal of ecumenism cannot be described simply as “the others’ returning to the fold of the Catholic Church. The goal of full unity can only be achieved through conversion, when all are impelled by the spirit of God to turn to the one head of the church, Christ Jesus. To the degree that we are one with Christ we will all be one with one another and thus realise the intrinsic catholicity of the church in its concrete fullness. Theologically the Council defined this goal as communio unity. . . . ."
The topic and issue at hand is the Body of Christ and the Church, which I think all would agree are one and the same.

The CCC speaks of the characteristics of the “People of God,” while pointing out that “God is not the property of any one people.” One becomes part of the People of God by faith in Christ, and Baptism. So, even those you consider “separated brethren” are part of the People of God/Body of Christ/the Church.

CCC
782 The People of God is marked by characteristics that clearly distinguish it from all other religious, ethnic, political, or cultural groups found in history:
  • It is the People of God: God is not the property of any one people. But he acquired a people for himself from those who previously were not a people: "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."202
**- One becomes a *member ***of this people not by a physical birth, but by being “born anew,” a birth "of water and the Spirit,"203 that is, by faith in Christ, and Baptism.

**- This People has for its Head Jesus the Christ (the anointed, the Messiah). Because the same anointing, the Holy Spirit, flows from the head into the body, this is “the messianic people.” **
  • “The *status *of this people is that of the dignity and freedom of the sons of God, in whose hearts the Holy Spirit dwells as in a temple.”
  • "Its *law *is the new commandment to love as Christ loved us."204 This is the “new” law of the Holy Spirit.205
  • Its *mission *is to be salt of the earth and light of the world.206 This people is “a most sure seed of unity, hope, and salvation for the whole human race.”
  • Its destiny, finally, "is the Kingdom of God which has been begun by God himself on earth and which must be further extended until it has been brought to perfection by him at the end of time."207 . . . .
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This is where Vatican II deviated from previously defined Papal Bulls and Councils.

Unam Sanctum 11/18/1302
“Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff”
Mortalium Amimos 1/6/1928
[25] Let them hear Lactantius crying out: “The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this the house of Faith, this the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation.”
 
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