The Book of Mormon... have you read it?

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I forgot 1 Nephi 4 and Helaman 9:29-34 for the contrast in logical consistency.
 
zerinus said:
Just to add a comment to what ParkerD has said, the Book of Mormon is written in the Elizabethan English of the KJV, and many English words have since acquired additional meanings that they may not have had back then. The word “condescend” probably did not have the negative meaning that is associated with it today. It is used in the KJV once, in the following context: “Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits” (Romans 12:16). This expression, “condescend to men of low estate,” basically means, “Don’t be proud,” “Don’t be class-conscious,” “Don’t stay aloof from people you may consider below you in the social scale because of wealth or privilege”. In those days (an in many societies today, perhaps not so much in the US), people divide themselves formally or informally into various social classes; and those of higher classes don’t socialize on familiar terms with those of lower ones. But in the eyes of God all men are equal, therefore that is not something that God approves of—especially in a church setting. When you go to church, it doesn’t matter whether you are rich or poor, or of high birth or low birth. Everyone becomes equal. In this sense Jesus performed the ultimate act of “condescension” by coming down from the highest station imaginable, that God, to become not only a mortal man, but a man of a very low station. He chose not to be born in a palace to a king, but in a manger to a lowly carpenter. Throughout His life He lived the life of the common people, and socialized with them on their level, and called them his “brethren”. There are many scriptural verses that describe His “condescension,” but perhaps this one is the most revealing:

Luke 22:

24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

And of course, the ultimate act of service He performed was His Atonement for the sins of the world, which is what is meant by the “condescension” of God.
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Thanks Zerinus - that makes a lot of sense. I wonder when condescend got it’s negative meaning? Because like you say, “con” means “with” so actually condescend would mean to descend with. Very interesting!
 
Zundrah said:
No DonLeon, you **must ****not **wait for him to ask! Did the stray lamb ask Christ to return it to the flock!? NO, OF COURSE NOT! But christ went and saved him of his own accord! As should you with Gotlle of Gear! Gottle of Gear is definately having some serious problems with his faith! Help him noooooow!!!

AND… don’t even think of asking me to do it, I’m not catholic so I can’t… you do it! 😃

DonLeon, IT’S YOUR TIME TO SHINE! 👍
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Gottle of Geer has been around here a LONG time. I always look forward to and enjoy his posts. He is worthy of our respect and our admiration.

If he’s having issues with his faith - as we all do from time to time, if we’re being honest with ourselves - well, that’s his problem and I am sure he will deal with it (and ask for help, if needed) in his own way and in his own time.

(And if you can’t even take >3 seconds to find out how to spell his name correctly, why should he be at all interested in anything you have to say? :mad:)
 
theistgal said:
Gottle of Geer has been around here a LONG time. I always look forward to and enjoy his posts. He is worthy of our respect and our admiration.

If he’s having issues with his faith - as we all do from time to time, if we’re being honest with ourselves - well, that’s his problem and I am sure he will deal with it (and ask for help, if needed) in his own way and in his own time.

(And if you can’t even take >3 seconds to find out how to spell his name correctly, why should he be at all interested in anything you have to say? :mad:)
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Thank you for your response. I do not force myself on anyone. If they listen, that’s fine. If
not, no amount of preaching will help.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
DonLeon said:
Thank you for your response. I do not force myself on anyone. If they listen, that’s fine. If
not, no amount of preaching will help.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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It saddens me that you say this… some of the things that Gottle of Geer has said are very heretical and missguided. I would like to help him but I’m not catholic…
Preaching is not forcing your self onto them. Just a very gentle nudge is good enough! 😛
 
theistgal said:
Gottle of Geer has been around here a LONG time. I always look forward to and enjoy his posts. He is worthy of our respect and our admiration.

If he’s having issues with his faith - as we all do from time to time, if we’re being honest with ourselves - well, that’s his problem and I am sure he will deal with it (and ask for help, if needed) in his own way and in his own time.

(And if you can’t even take >3 seconds to find out how to spell his name correctly, why should he be at all interested in anything you have to say? :mad:)
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What’s all that about!?
(And if you can’t even take >3 seconds to find out how to spell his name correctly, why should he be at all interested in anything you have to say? :mad:
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Christ… What’s your problem!? I was only seeing a gap in someones heart and I was concerned about him…
Surly he wouldn’t ignore me just for spelling his name wrong… that’s just you being a meanie! 😃
 
Zundrah said:
What’s all that about!?

Christ… What’s your problem!? I was only seeing a gap in someones heart and I was concerned about him…
Surly he wouldn’t ignore me just for spelling his name wrong… that’s just you being a meanie! 😃
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You can be mad at me if you like, but please don’t take the Lord’s name in vain to express your anger. 😦
 
Zundrah said:
It saddens me that you say this… some of the things that Gottle of Geer has said are very heretical and missguided. I would like to help him but I’m not catholic…
Preaching is not forcing your self onto them. Just a very gentle nudge is good enough! 😛
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I don’t say this out of selfishness, or fear. I tried once and got no response, so it remained there for I saw that anything further would be futile and many cause further hostility. If he were truly interested, the sponsor of this forum ( Catholic Answers ) would be able to help him much better than I can ever hope to.

May God bless you abundantly for your concern. Shalom.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
DonLeon said:
I don’t say this out of selfishness, or fear. I tried once and got no response, so it remained there for I saw that anything further would be futile and many cause further hostility. If he were truly interested, the sponsor of this forum ( Catholic Answers ) would be able to help him much better than I can ever hope to.

May God bless you abundantly for your concern. Shalom.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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I once privately maIled him too and he completely ignored me… Maybe he just doesn’t want help… BUT AT LEAST WE TRIED TO DO WHAT JESUS WOULD DO.

Thanks for listening any way DonLeon - God Bless 😛

xxx zundrah xxx
(feel like a failure…)
 
Zundrah said:
I once privately maIled him too and he completely ignored me… Maybe he just doesn’t want help… BUT AT LEAST WE TRIED TO DO WHAT JESUS WOULD DO.

Thanks for listening any way DonLeon - God Bless 😛

xxx zundrah xxx
(feel like a failure…)
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Yes, and remember what Jesus also said, I paraphrase: "…if they don’t listen, shake the dust from you shoes "

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
DonLeon said:
Yes, and remember what Jesus also said, I paraphrase: "…if they don’t listen, shake the dust from you shoes "

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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Amen, I’ve never heard this verse! Where is it!? 🤷

xxx zundrah xxx
( the dust is off )
 
I was a Mormon for about three years and I read a lot of their literature including the tedious and overwritten Book of Mormon. I disposed of all this stuff when I joined the Lutheran church and put the Mormons behind me.

The Book of Mormon was written at a time when the Victorians believed that no coloured race could have created a civilization to account for the ruins their archaeologists were finding in regions dominated by said coloured races. Joseph Smith therefore made up something akin to Eric von Danigans Chariots of the Gods to postulate that Europeans (and not Coloured People) created these civilizations, and to explain that the current population was simply the decayed remains of the guys who destroyed these civilizations and killed all the White Folks (as we all know such folks are still inclined to do … :rolleyes:) and live in the ruins to this day.

The book is tedious and the little connection it has with reality is copied verbatim from the King James Bible, which apparently the untutored Smith believed was the original autograph that existed in the days of Jesus being on Earth.

Yes, the Mormons are a well disciplined people who generally behave just the way they are taught by their parents to behave. This is a good thing. But it does not validate this badly written attempt to convince us that all the good stuff in the world was created by White Folks. Especially not the part where the coloured folks are promised that if they are very, very good they will be White, Clean White when they get to Heaven.
 
Zundrah said:
Have any of you guys ever read the Book of Mormon?

I have the book of Mormon at home and I often read it too. Have you ever read it, if so then how did you get it?

It is called the book of Mormon because it was a guy called Mormon who put all the books together and collectively made one book out of it.

That’s a bit like calling the bible the book of John, or the book of Peter, or what ever…

Why wasn’t it given a proper decent name?🤷
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I glanced through one once. The phrase “And it came to pass” seemed to be on every second page.

So I passed it.
 
Appleby,
It doesn’t say that in the Book of Mormon, but I am aware of how you could make the assumption that it did. The Book of Mormon says the population described in the book would be taken over by outside groups, and does not describe the skin color or the kind of civilization, whether advanced or what, of the predominating groups who would take over the land. But it does say, “He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; …; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.” (2 Nephi 26:33)
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I glanced through one once. The phrase “And it came to pass” seemed to be on every second page.

So I passed it.
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:rotfl:

It’s not on every page, Bob Crowley - it’s on every chapter and some times every **sentence **too!

xxx zundrah xxx
😃
 
I have read the BofM several times. At the time I believed it to be genuine scripture because it looked like the Bible and had similar language - just as the first poster said. I also had no better reference point - I had never read the Bible except isolated verses. Once I started to read the Bible, then the differences are so obvious. However these difference are not just of style but of divine authorship.

The BofM is shallow. It does not have depth of doctrine running from beginning to end. Get Scott Hahn’s CDs on Hebrews for example and see the cohesive threads of doctrine that run through the Bible. It is a whole. No such themes in the BofM.

Mormon scholars strain to find divine depth, eg. Chiasmus or perhaps cyclical prosperity based on righteousness in the BofM. But there it stops. Hardly profound. There is a 19th C. Book by a protestant minister called Lamb. The book I think is called The Golden Bible. The Memoware we site has a free download of it. It simply looks at the language if the book and of it’s terrible construction and lack of divine authorship. well worth reading.

God bless,

Hal.
 
Zundrah said:
No, I’m not angry! But seriously you were mean to me!

By saying “” I meant “christ save me from this meanie”! LOL

xxx zundrah xxx
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In what way was I mean to you? By telling you not to be so quick to judge Gottle of Geer, who’s been here much longer than you and didn’t deserve your ridiculous mischaracterization of him as a “heretic”? Or by telling you not to use “Christ” as a cuss word (which you absolutely did, in context)?

FWIW, Christians like Gottle, who aren’t afraid to voice their doubts, inspire and strengthen my faith. None of us should ever be afraid to ask questions, or keep others from asking. Unless we’re afraid we don’t really have the answers … 😉
 
Zundrah said:
What I mean is, in the book of mormon there are books all named after the writers e.g. Either, Nephi - they are all the names of the writer and in it there is the book written by the man called mormon and he put all the different books together and collectively called it all - The Book Of Mormon! What I’m saying is this, our bible is called the bible - Hebrew translation of the word bible is “fact” or “law”. But the people from the LDS church just called there’s after a simple man who only wrote a few books that went into it. So it is like calling the bible The book of Solomon, or the book of Genesis.

My point is that the man called Mormon was obviously a very egoistic and selfish man for calling it after him self, don’t you think so?
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The guy’s name is Moroni, not Mormon.
 
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