The Book of Mormon... have you read it?

[Jerusha]

No, there is a character called “Mormon” in it, too. Amazing how many names are variants of “moron” I have no idea why.

The point of the thread is, so long as your context is not set by a couple of hypnotized LDS Mishies, and you know your faith, wading through the book of BS will not adversely affect you. You might derive great satisfaction from throwing it across the room. If you “accidentally” throw it away or burn it, remember that you can try again to read it from the safety of the internet. I recommend sites that are not LDS-controlled.

It may even give you insights on how NOT to be. When you look at the “anti-Christs” of the BOM, you can also understand why Mormons killed and continue to metaphorically kill their own prophets, people who encourage them to use their brains. A stiff-necked people, indeed.

 

[theistgal]

It may even give you insights on how NOT to be. When you look at the “anti-Christs” of the BOM, you can also understand why Mormons killed and continue to metaphorically kill their own prophets, people who encourage them to use their brains. A stiff-necked people, indeed.

Yes - because Christians have never done anything like that.

Interesting how we can so easily see the flaws in our neighbors’ religious practices, but not in our own.

 

[davidrasch]

Reading Fawn Brodie’s bio of Joseph Smith, the angel (sic) MORONI directed Joe Smith to the gold plates which were then called the book of Mormon. This book is available almost anywhere, used book stores, retail outlets and so on. Its authenticity and veracity will always be an issue, you see, defending fiction requires real comitment to that fiction.

 

[Jerusha]

Yes - because Christians have never done anything like that.

Interesting how we can so easily see the flaws in our neighbors’ religious practices, but not in our own.

Any person, or people, confronted with the choice of unbelief, or modification of belief, can become stiff-necked. That is one of the points of Moroni 9. The core text, written by Solomon Spalding, could have been really good, given a competent editor, or word-processing program.

 

[DonLeon]

Amen, I’ve never heard this verse! Where is it!?

xxx zundrah xxx
( the dust is off )

Matthew Chapter 9, verse 14 : " And if some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet."

Good News Bible :bible1:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Finrock]

Good afternoon Jerusha. Good to see you posting again! I hope you’ve been doing well.

Any person, or people, confronted with the choice of unbelief, or modification of belief, can become stiff-necked. That is one of the points of Moroni 9. The core text, written by Solomon Spalding, could have been really good, given a competent editor, or word-processing program.

I appreciate your point about Moroni 9.

Your point about Solomon Spaulding writing the text isn’t true. Even if Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon, your assertion about Solomon Spaulding is baseless. It is baseless to the point where it is irrational to even make that claim.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[jesuspsr]

The book of Mormon, written by, and made up by, Joseph Smith was written in the exact style of the Bible so that it would be easier for his potential followers to accept it as sacred scripture. I mean, if it looks like scripture it must be scripture, right? WRONG!!!

Bible means book, or The Book.

Mormon is not the name of a person, but rather was taken by Smith from the English, (more = mor) and the Epyptian, (mon = god). Mor-mon = more-god.

Yes, I have read some of their book, it has some interesting stories and can be a bit entertaining. Do I believe for even one second that it is in any way inspired by God? Absolutely not. It is all contrived by one man and has been perpetuated by his followers.

I know many mormons, (or LDS as they now like to be called), and I find their family values and dedication to their church and community something that we could all learn a valuable lesson from. However, their theology is quite simply wrong.

NOT JUST STRONG…CATHOLIC STRONG!!!

very well put!!!

 

[davidrasch]

Sounds to me like an attempt by a missionary. Much of what these folk point to is plagerised (sic) Bible. Honest, earnest Mormons searching for ‘proof’ have left the church. The latest bio of Smith carefully hedges complaints with analogies, and possibilities.
Patrick Madrid has a two cd Mormon-catholic debate on his web site which is listening to, if you can afford it. These are two gentleman presenting their faith without reliance on shop worn accusations.

`

 

[DonLeon]

Good afternoon Jerusha. Good to see you posting again! I hope you’ve been doing well.

I appreciate your point about Moroni 9.

Your point about Solomon Spaulding writing the text isn’t true. Even if Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon, your assertion about Solomon Spaulding is baseless. It is baseless to the point where it is irrational to even make that claim.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

You are corrct in saying Simon Spaulding did not write the text of the Book of Mormon. But he did write a story (manuscript) very similar to the BOM long before Joseph Smith
wrote the BOM The amazing part is how closely the BOM resembles this story written by Spaulding.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[usemelord]

A number of years ago I lived across the street from a gentleman who was a Bishop in the LDS church. One evening he and his wife invited me and my wife over for a piece of pie and before too long he brought out the Book of Mormon and began reading for what seemed an interminable amount of time a lengthy passage which made no sense or had no relevancy to me at that particular time. I asked my neighbor point blank, “If you had to chose one book over the other, which would you choose, the Bible or the Book of Mormon?” Without hesitating for a fraction of a second, he responded, “The Book of Mormon.” That did it for me—in a very negative fashion. Nothing will ever supplant the Bible, ever. One thing I have difficulty understanding is that how generally well-educated people (Mormons) can “buy” such a “bill of goods”; i.e. The Book of Mormon which, to me, was concocted and fabricated out of whole cloth. It is a man-“inspired” tome. A couple years ago I read a book entitled “Under the Banner of Heaven” which was quite informative and enlightening providing a detailed examination into the genesis of the religion. Joseph Smith was no saint that’s for sure. Although it is my personal belief that Mormons are misguided, I have to respect them for their strong family values, etc. As for me, a convert to the Catholic faith only four years ago and less that two weeks away from my 65th birthday, I can say with certainty and a sense of tremendous pride, " I have the Eucharist, Mormons don’t."

 

[Finrock]

Good evening DonLeon. I hope you are doing well.

You are corrct in saying Simon Spaulding did not write the text of the Book of Mormon. But he did write a story (manuscript) very similar to the BOM long before Joseph Smith
wrote the BOM The amazing part is how closely the BOM resembles this story written by Spaulding.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

The Solomon Spaulding theory is an old and baseless theory used by critics and anti-Mormons for years in a fruitless effort to try and discredit the Book of Mormon. Of all the plagiarism theories (and there are at least 3), the Spaulding theory is by far the weakest and the most ridiculous one to try and pass off as factual. Even the person who originated this theory, Philastus Hurlbut, once having actually acquired the unpublished Spaulding manuscript realized that it had no similarity whatsoever to the Book of Mormon and subsequently changed his theory claiming that there must have been a second Spaulding manuscript that was lost.

The Spaulding theory has other issues as well. In short, “[t]his theory claimed that Sidney Rigdon wrote the religious parts of the Book of Mormon while the historical parts were plagiarized from an unpublished manuscript written in 1812 by Solomon Spaulding” (fairlds.org). In order for this theory to work, it asserts that Sidney Rigdon somehow secretly wrote the Book of Mormon and then secretely gave it to Joseph Smith. Sidney then later pretended that he was seeing the Book of Mormon for the first time when it was brought to him by early Mormon missionaries. All of these assumptions are baseless. There is absolutely no proof or evidence that Sidney Ridgon knew anything about the Book of Mormon before it was published and shown to him by Parley Pratt.

One last final point on this. Oliver Cowdery, the principle scribe in translating the Book of Mormon, made this statement after he had left the LDS church:

“I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God . . . . Sidney Rigdon did not write it. Mr. Spaulding did not write it. I wrote it myself, as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.”

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Zundrah]

The guy’s name is Moroni, not Mormon.

WRONG - mormon is in the book of mormon - he wrote a whole book!

 

[Zundrah]

No, there is a character called “Mormon” in it, too. Amazing how many names are variants of “moron” I have no idea why.

The point of the thread is, so long as your context is not set by a couple of hypnotized LDS Mishies, and you know your faith, wading through the book of BS will not adversely affect you. You might derive great satisfaction from throwing it across the room. If you “accidentally” throw it away or burn it, remember that you can try again to read it from the safety of the internet. I recommend sites that are not LDS-controlled.

It may even give you insights on how NOT to be. When you look at the “anti-Christs” of the BOM, you can also understand why Mormons killed and continue to metaphorically kill their own prophets, people who encourage them to use their brains. A stiff-necked people, indeed.

You might derive great satisfaction from throwing it across the room.

This is great advise for some anger management! I advise it for all on this thread!

If you “accidentally” throw it away or burn it…

A mistake we all make I’m sure…

 

[Zundrah]

In what way was I mean to you? By telling you not to be so quick to judge Gottle of Geer, who’s been here much longer than you and didn’t deserve your ridiculous mischaracterization of him as a “heretic”? Or by telling you not to use “Christ” as a cuss word (which you absolutely did, in context)?

FWIW, Christians like Gottle, who aren’t afraid to voice their doubts, inspire and strengthen my faith. None of us should ever be afraid to ask questions, or keep others from asking. Unless we’re afraid we don’t really have the answers …

I once said that I couldn’t help Gottle of Geer becasue I am protestant and not catholic… *

Unless we’re afraid we don’t really have the answers …

• …is this what you are getting at?

so quick to judge Gottle of Geer

Are you in love with him or some thing?
I noticed that he is a fallen away catholic( who by the way doubts the existantce of adam and eve)! …I wanted to try to help him but you are now turning this all around on me!?

who’s been here much longer than you

What is your point?

he didn’t deserve your ridiculous mischaracterization of him as a “heretic”?

Well excuse me but he IS guilty of heresy… all over this website he says things that doubt the very existance of christ at times… Look at some of his threads ond post and then maybe that plank in your eye will fall out… (with some luck).

Or by telling you not to use “Christ” as a cuss word (which you absolutely did, in context)?

Oi, I did not use christ as a CUSS WORD! :tsktsk: That’s you plank yet again getting in your way…

xxx zundrah xxx

 

[Zundrah]

Matthew Chapter 9, verse 14 : " And if some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet."

Good News Bible :bible1:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Thanks!

 

[Appleby]

There is nothing in the Book of Mormon that requires my attention. Back in the 1970s I tried to make sense out of it, but having a strong religious background from three years of Bible college, I never could see any way that it could be a holy book of any kind, much less divinely inspired. I have since read quite a bit of literature trying to explain it and I believe that L. Ron Hubbard was much more consistent and rational than the collection of people who wrote the Book of Mormon (and probably better educated), which is a sad commentary.

 

[Zundrah]

There is nothing in the Book of Mormon that requires my attention. Back in the 1970s I tried to make sense out of it, but having a strong religious background from three years of Bible college, I never could see any way that it could be a holy book of any kind, much less divinely inspired. I have since read quite a bit of literature trying to explain it and I believe that L. Ron Hubbard was much more consistent and rational than the collection of people who wrote the Book of Mormon (and probably better educated), which is a sad commentary.

Thanks Appleby,

Its great to hear from people who have some biblical knowledge and education. Especially when they can shed light on dark places such as the book of mormon!

xxx zundrah xxx

 

[davidrasch]

Fawn Brodie’s biography of Joseph Smith clearly lays out the growth of book of Mormon. She, being a Mormon at the time, was excommunicated because she presented her findings in a sympathetic, not doctrinaire, manner. Richard Bushman’s bio, he being a practicing Mormon, speaks to probabilities and possibilities. What I take from this is that, archeology and philology repeatedly and consistently validate Christian beliefs in the Bible (library) and its veracity against all tests. Mormons who review, even slightly critical, books about Mormonism rely on the phrase "you have to believe’. This is the face of evidence which is overwhelming. This does build strong Mormons. Just as early Christians in a pagan world had to hold to their beliefs, so, too Mormons.

 

[DonLeon]

Good evening DonLeon. I hope you are doing well.

The Solomon Spaulding theory is an old and baseless theory used by critics and anti-Mormons for years in a fruitless effort to try and discredit the Book of Mormon. Of all the plagiarism theories (and there are at least 3), the Spaulding theory is by far the weakest and the most ridiculous one to try and pass off as factual. Even the person who originated this theory, Philastus Hurlbut, once having actually acquired the unpublished Spaulding manuscript realized that it had no similarity whatsoever to the Book of Mormon and subsequently changed his theory claiming that there must have been a second Spaulding manuscript that was lost.

The Spaulding theory has other issues as well. In short, “[t]his theory claimed that Sidney Rigdon wrote the religious parts of the Book of Mormon while the historical parts were plagiarized from an unpublished manuscript written in 1812 by Solomon Spaulding” (fairlds.org). In order for this theory to work, it asserts that Sidney Rigdon somehow secretly wrote the Book of Mormon and then secretely gave it to Joseph Smith. Sidney then later pretended that he was seeing the Book of Mormon for the first time when it was brought to him by early Mormon missionaries. All of these assumptions are baseless. There is absolutely no proof or evidence that Sidney Ridgon knew anything about the Book of Mormon before it was published and shown to him by Parley Pratt.

One last final point on this. Oliver Cowdery, the principle scribe in translating the Book of Mormon, made this statement after he had left the LDS church:

“I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages), as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph Smith, as he translated it by the gift and power of God . . . . Sidney Rigdon did not write it. Mr. Spaulding did not write it. I wrote it myself, as it fell from the lips of the Prophet.”

Kind Regards,
Finrock

If I am wrong, I apologize. But I still say the BOM is a story from someone’s fantasy.
NONE of the claims made in it can be proven, archeologicaly, historically, or scientifically, as the Bible can. Until the BOM can meet these requirements, I will consider it to be purely a work of fiction ( although it makes good reading ) regardless of its origin. Shalom.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Zundrah]

I still say the BOM is a story from someone’s fantasy.
I will consider it to be purely a **work of fiction **
PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

:yup::yup::yup:

xxx zundrah xxx