The Case for Impeachment Is Overwhelming | The American Conservative

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Guinness said:
No, it was a complete mischaracterization of the actual call, IOW, a lie…
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Okay, let’s say I stipulate that Adam Schiff, while investigating the President’s impeachable actions, inadvisably made up a characterization of the phone call.

What the President did is still an impeachable offense.
 
PaulinVA said:
What the President did is still an impeachable offense.
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In legal terms, this is called “assuming a fact that has not yet been established”. In any case, former President Ford has has attributed to him the statement that “Impeachable is whatever half of Congress plus one says it is”. I don’t think this is what the authors of the Constitution meant it to be, but this is where we are.

It should be noted, that the vote for impeachment hasn’t been taken yet and it’s not a sure thing it will pass. A lot of Dems in districts Trump won in 2016 want this to go away. They realize that this is likely to help Trump turnout more than theirs.
 
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The dems have been trying to pull this stunt ever since trump got elected. Still cut up about loosing the last election fair and square. It’s really only hurting their chances for the next election.
 
Guinness said:
In legal terms, this is called “assuming a fact that has not yet been established”.
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Uhm, no. The legal term is actus reus. It’s been proven because he was caught in flagrante delicto

Rudy was just in Ukraine. Trump is meeting with the Russians in the Oval.
 
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Pai_Nosso said:
The dems have been trying to pull this stunt ever since trump got elected. Still cut up about loosing the last election fair and square. It’s really only hurting their chances for the next election.
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That is one of the “increasingly absurd and desperate claims” that is among the irrelevant distractions.
 
“Obstruction of Congress” is actually quite clear and definitely potentially impeachable. 91 documents have were legally asked for under Article I, and the Trump & Co refused to do it, and nine Trump appointees have been subpoenaed but Trump blocked them. Basically, that’s open & shut “obstruction”. To defy the Constitution is a VERY serious matter, and if they get away with this, which they probably will with the make-up of the Senate, what’s next?
 
Metis1 said:
“Obstruction of Congress” is actually quite clear and definitely potentially impeachable. 91 documents have were legally asked for under Article I, and the Trump & Co refused to do it, and nine Trump appointees have been subpoenaed but Trump blocked them. Basically, that’s open & shut “obstruction”.
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Fighting subpoenas in court isn’t “obstruction”…“Executive privilege” and “separation of powers” actually have a legal basis. Amazing how many people seem to have forgotten that the President and Congress represent co-equal branches of government. The President isn’t subordinate…
 
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dvdjs said:
That is one of the “increasingly absurd and desperate claims” that is among the irrelevant distractions.
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Absurd is how the polls have shifted in Trump’s favor because of all of this.
And I’m in Australia so there is nothing desperate about my comments. I just tell it how i see it.
 
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dvdjs said:
Are you suggesting the matters raised by @Metis1 are being challenged in court?
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As far as I know, Congress hasn’t attempted to take the President to court to enforces it’s subpoenas, though they may have and it has yet to be completely adjudicated…
 
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Guinness said:
As far as I know, Congress hasn’t attempted to take the President to court to enforces it’s subpoenas.
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:confused: It would be up to the president to challenge the subpoenas in court, like he is doing with subpoenas in court proceedings.
 
“Executive’ privilege” has sharp limitations, and most of them are even declined when it come to Article I’s oversight mandate, especially in closed House sessions. Thus, e.p. is just being used by some as a facade to try and stop actions allowed to the House in that pesky little document called the “Constitution of the United States of America”.

And, a question I repeatedly have asked, if Trump is supposedly so innocent, why in the world would he be blocking this? If I’m innocent, I want these documents and testimony to come out to show that I’m innocent! Why is this so difficult for some to understand???

But a recent poll may have the answer to the above question, whereas 43% of those who say they’re “Republicans” feel that Trump is more important than the Constitution itself.
 
dvdjs said:
It would be up to the president to challenge the subpoenas in court, like he is doing with subpoenas in court proceedings.
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The two things are completely different.
Metis1 said:
And, a question I repeatedly have asked, if Trump is supposedly so innocent, why in the world would he be blocking this? If I’m innocent, I want these documents and testimony to come out to show that I’m innocent! Why is this so difficult for some to understand???
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So, what you’re saying is that refusing to testify can be taken as evidence of guilt? That seems to turn the 5th amendment on it’s head…
 
The above is not an honest assessment of what I actually wr.ote and rather clearly meant, but that comes as no surprise whatsoever. It’s posts like that which encouraged me to leave CAF for about a year. and why I no longer directly engage some people here
 
Guinness said:
It should be noted, that the vote for impeachment hasn’t been taken yet and it’s not a sure thing it will pass
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It will pass. Pelosi will let a few dems off the hook, but she’ll have her 50% plus one.
 
Guinness said:
Fighting subpoenas in court isn’t “obstruction”…“Executive privilege” and “separation of powers” actually have a legal basis. Amazing how many people seem to have forgotten that the President and Congress represent co-equal branches of government. The President isn’t subordinate…
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Asserting one’s rights in opposition to them is “criminal” to the Chinese communist party and to the Democrats.
 
dvdjs said:
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Pai_Nosso:
The dems have been trying to pull this stunt ever since trump got elected. Still cut up about loosing the last election fair and square. It’s really only hurting their chances for the next election.
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That is one of the “increasingly absurd and desperate claims” that is among the irrelevant distractions.
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An absurd and desperate claim that the democrats have been talking of impeaching President Trump since the election? No, it is an absolute fact.
 
The reason this isn’t working for the Dems is simply that they keep searching for a crime,changing the narrative. People are on to their shenanigans and it isn’t resonating. Now they have painted themselves into a corner and have to follow through although there is talk due to pressure from moderate D ms whose seats are in danger,to just censure President Trump :roll_eyes:
 
Ridgerunner said:
Asserting one’s rights in opposition to them is “criminal” to the Chinese communist party and to the Democrats.
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Ah, now it is not just the KGB, but also the Chinese communist party??? What will come next? The Klingons?

Yes, there are the co-equal branches of the government, but Congress has the authority to oversee the president’s activities, and NOT the other way around. Congress can impeach and remove a corrupt president. Ah, and as the courts declared, we do NOT live in a monarchy, no matter how inconvenient that is for the dictators-to-be. When the Chinese Xi was elected to a lifelong presidency, Trump expressed his desire that we should try this experiment, too. In a total and dire contradiction to the basic concept of the Constitution.
 
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