The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[Jason_1977]

…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

Yes there have been same bad eggs. Yes there was an inquisition, but it was not called the Roman Catholic inquisitioned because SPAIN held their own little deal AGAINST the wishes of Rome. SPAIN acted independently & the church did NOT condone the acts at ALL. That’s why it’s the SPANISH inquisition & not the CATHOLIC inquisition. For every bad priest, however there is a protestant counterpart. If you knew how many “so-called” reverends and ministers I have put on their bellies & in hand cuffs for stealing or trespassing, your stomach would turn. The point is, anything placed in the charge of man will be imperfect. THAT is perhaps one of the greatest consistencies at all.

 

[Magnus1981]

“Don’t reject Peter because of Judas [Iscariot]”.

Something to ponder.

 

[lindalout49]

Yes there have been same bad eggs. Yes there was an inquisition, but it was not called the Roman Catholic inquisitioned because SPAIN held their own little deal AGAINST the wishes of Rome. SPAIN acted independently & the church did NOT condone the acts at ALL. That’s why it’s the SPANISH inquisition & not the CATHOLIC inquisition. For every bad priest, however there is a protestant counterpart. If you knew how many “so-called” reverends and ministers I have put on their bellies & in hand cuffs for stealing or trespassing, your stomach would turn. The point is, anything placed in the charge of man will be imperfect. THAT is perhaps one of the greatest consistencies at all.

That is exactly why we are to put our faith in God and not in man.

 

[KathleenGee]

Only in this past decade the documents of the Spanish Inquisition were finally released. There were two American fundamentalist protestants of the 1840’s ‘Catholic Church the whore church’ mentality who went into great lengths about what happened during those times.

There were a number of points they made that were true. But what they don’t tell you is to what degree the clerics went to exonerate and free a large number of people, that people of other faiths were free to practice their faith, but the issue was sacrilege…receiving the Eucharist with no belief.

Furthermore, you have to also read the brutal history of Spain and the Moorish invasions that plundered the country for over a 700 year history, the dhimmitude and oppression the Christians went through. There are regions in the Mediterranean that still have scars from the Islamic invaders.

People hate the Catholic Church and are willing to read anything they can about it that is detrimental without the full picture. Same with those who refer to this or that cannon out of context and are looking for more ammunition to use the Church against itself.

I think the Protestant Reformation and the corruption in dioceses Luther witnessed all revolve around pride and loss of faith. We are always warned to not loose our faith to scandals. After all, we are all sinners.

I don’t believe that these divisions are the will of God. They reflect fractured human nature that is unwilling to seek the whole truth of past problems.

The Lord over and over again uses the banquet table for us to join when we enter His kingdom. To hold on to biases, be they Catholic or Protestant, keeps us all away. I have learned from Protestants on other threads.

 

[Jason_1977]

That is exactly why we are to put our faith in God and not in man.

precisely. popes & priests may be corrupt, bishops may mis-spend our donated money, but they’re still in charge. WE as catholics have a duty to keep them honest. I think many forget that.

 

[Jason_1977]

precisely. popes & priests may be corrupt, bishops may mis-spend our donated money, but they’re still in charge. WE as catholics have a duty to keep them honest. I think many forget that.

For instance, why hve Pelosi & John Kerry not been excommunicated?

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, there is the ongoing continual reference to the Church having alot of money.

People need to understand the nature and mission of the church.

The local church is your diocese. The bishop, who is the successor of the apostles, is the head of the local diocese, and his ‘right arm’ men are your local diocesan priests. Inside the local church you may have priests of religious orders with special charisms and services, as well who are serving the needs of that local church.

Each diocese has its individual churches called parishes head by the pastor and possibly supported by a parochial vicar. The church has canon law to administrate the church and parishes. To begin a parish, you need a pastor and a secretary…who keeps meticulous records of all incoming parishioners. The diocese will contribute funds to support a parish. As soon as the dimes come in, you need a financial council of professionals to oversee the funds with the pastor.

Catholics do not tithe. Tithing was mentioned a few times in Deuteronomy. It is hard on working men with a family, vs an affluent couple with no children. We give freely at the offertory. The more wealthy members in the past – going way back, contributed more…in ancient times property was purchased and used for monasteries…hospitals and hospice, schools. The Catholic Church was the greatest force in Europe in establishing such services for all people.

Nobody owns anything in the Catholic Church. Your local property is owned by the diocese. Even though people think it has alot, or there are people in there owning alot of it, there just isn’t. You can’t go into the church to make alot of money. The priceless art work was commissioned and done by highly gifted people of their own free will for the glory of Christ’s Bride and subsequently glorifying Christ Himself.

The Catholic Church comprises all those who profess faith in our creed. That is the only perfection we have. We all work for our own salvation by working to do the Will of God every day.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Yes, there is the ongoing continual reference to the Church having alot of money.

People need to understand the nature and mission of the church.

The local church is your diocese. The bishop, who is the successor of the apostles, is the head of the local diocese, and his ‘right arm’ men are your local diocesan priests. Inside the local church you may have priests of religious orders with special charisms and services, as well who are serving the needs of that local church.

Each diocese has its individual churches called parishes head by the pastor and possibly supported by a parochial vicar. The church has canon law to administrate the church and parishes. To begin a parish, you need a pastor and a secretary…who keeps meticulous records of all incoming parishioners. The diocese will contribute funds to support a parish. As soon as the dimes come in, you need a financial council of professionals to oversee the funds with the pastor.

Catholics do not tithe. Tithing was mentioned a few times in Deuteronomy. It is hard on working men with a family, vs an affluent couple with no children. We give freely at the offertory. The more wealthy members in the past – going way back, contributed more…in ancient times property was purchased and used for monasteries…hospitals and hospice, schools. The Catholic Church was the greatest force in Europe in establishing such services for all people.

Nobody owns anything in the Catholic Church. Your local property is owned by the diocese. Even though people think it has alot, or there are people in there owning alot of it, there just isn’t. You can’t go into the church to make alot of money. The priceless art work was commissioned and done by highly gifted people of their own free will for the glory of Christ’s Bride and subsequently glorifying Christ Himself.

The Catholic Church comprises all those who profess faith in our creed. That is the only perfection we have. We all work for our own salvation by working to do the Will of God every day.

GEE this is a very good post but you posted under THE CATLOIC CHURCH DID NOT GIVE US THE BIBLE. Not trying to be rude but start a new thread if you need to talk about money and you will get more people joying end, The first thread was just sarted to bash Cathloic,I,ll bet you do not believe that do you,
I love your post so keep up the good job

 

[benedictus2]

To be christian is to be Catholic! You have allot to learn and it sounds you have a long journey to find a real relationship with Christ! You cannot be close to him and ignore the church he gave us!

Very well said. You cannot separate the Head from the Body.

But quite a lot prefer to have just the Head which is spiritual decapitation.

 

[benedictus2]

Yes Im a little c catholic.When Christ indwells your heart and His Spirit abides in you, you are His, part of His body part of His Church. When this happens it becomes crystal clear that Catholics have nothing on us.

I think I have asked you this before. How do you know that His Spirit dwells in you. We cannot believe that just on your mere say so.

Also, when Paul spoke of the Body of Christ, he was referring to the members of the infant Catholic Church. So to be a member of the Body of Christ is to be member of the Catholic Church.

 

[benedictus2]

“Don’t reject Peter because of Judas [Iscariot]”.

Something to ponder.

EXCELLENT POINT!!!

 

[Holly3278]

The Catholic Church most certainly did give us the Bible. I recommend actually doing your research before making unfounded claims like this.

 

[KathleenGee]

Dear Bill Pick,

There has to be ‘stuff’ about us that makes it impossible for people think the Church was able to do anything good with the bible…so it is money stuff, or clergy abuse stuff, or ‘contradictions’ stuff…and some of it also has to do with the other issue is what makes the Church…The entity of the Church is very complicated…you have people all over the world, and not everyone is marching step by step doing the same thing…makes me think of this sermon a priest gave on Mother’s Day…what would the world be like if it was only made up of men?

The church is made up of men who run it, but it is Christ Who sustains it.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I really can’t believe this Thread is still going.

The statement, “The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible,” is not a true statement.

I think we (Protestants) would do well to use our time studying history, instead of bashing Catholics.

Anna

 

[KathleenGee]

People should read unbiased, Catholic sources…of early Christian history, beginning with the liturgy. This is where people came together. There were heresies following Christ in His time.

Heresies and objective truth, wheat and chaff go together like a horse with a carriage.

 

[StLawrenceFan]

Hilarious thread title.

Of course the “Catholics” gave the word the Bible.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church.
…and Jesus is God.

This is like first grade stuff…but lotsa folks had missed it, I suppose.

 

[manualman]

…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

I’m breaking my own rule with a little hit and run after a thread is already many pages old, but…

By your same logic, God is the source of all evil. Presumably your powers of logic will soon make you an atheist.

Your argument either proves too much or too little. Either way, you lose.

 

[benedictus2]

Hilarious thread title.

Of course the “Catholics” gave the word the Bible.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church.
…and Jesus is God.

This is like first grade stuff…but lotsa folks had missed it, I suppose.

St Lawrence, there are still a lot of peple still in prep and kinder. So I suppose it is understandble they have no grasp of first grade stuff. Now to our task of moving them on to first grade

 

[LaceyC]

To the OP,

I would recommend a book called Church History in Plain Language by Bruce L. Shelley. Dr. Shelley is a Protestant history professor at Denver Theological Seminary, and this book is a Protestant version of the history of the Christian Church.

Interestingly, it does not contradict Catholic versions of the history of the Church. I’ve read the book cover to cover three times, and I’ve referred to it hundreds of times. I took it with me to a class on the history of the Catholic Church offered one semester several years ago, to “check the facts” and seek out contradictions between Catholic and Protestant versions of history. There were no contradictions. Dr. Shelley said exactly the same thing in his book that the Catholic professor said.

History is history, grounded in facts, dates, events, people, places.

According to Dr. Shelley, the Catholic Church did indeed give us the Bible.

Chapter 6 of the book explains the process by which the final canon of Scripture was selected, and Dr. Shelley states in conclusion that "the first complete list of books as we have them today came in an Easter letter written in 367 A.D by Bishop Athanasius from Alexandria. Shortly thereafter councils in North Africa at Hippo (393 A.D.) and at Carthage (397 A.D.) published the same list…

Shelley’s book is a wonderful resource. One of my favorites. This question is an odd one in my mind. Of course the Catholic Church “gave” us the bible. It was the only Christain church in existance at the time.

 

[Hisalone]

I think I have asked you this before. How do you know that His Spirit dwells in you. We cannot believe that just on your mere say so.

Also, when Paul spoke of the Body of Christ, he was referring to the members of the infant Catholic Church. So to be a member of the Body of Christ is to be member of the Catholic Church.

The Spirit of God is as real to me as my right arm. I recieved the baptism of the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands.

All Christians who are born again, In Christ are part of the Body of Christ. I and my fellow nonCatholics are part of His Body and are not part of the Catholic Church. Your theology is flat out wrong.

JOHN 14:16-17, 23
16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

JOHN 15:4
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

JOHN 17: 22
22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

ROMANS 8:9-11
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1CORINTHIANS 3:16-17
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

1CORINTHIANS 6:17-20
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body F16 and in your spirit, which are God’s.

2CORINTHIANS 6:16-18
16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you* are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”+
17 Therefore “Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.”*
18 “I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty.”*

2CORINTHIANS 13:5-6
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?–unless indeed you are disqualified.
6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.

GALATIANS 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
GALATIANS 4:19
19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,
COLOSSIANS 1:27
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which F4 is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
F4: M-Text reads who.
1JOHN 4:4
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.