The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[Javl]

Javl:

You might want to put on a pot of coffee, and read the Saturday paper. :coffeeread:

You are in for a long wait.

Anna

You are quite right. When people like us give them proof and/or ask questions they don’t want to hear, we are usually ignored. Don’t worry, I’m not holding my breath.

As for the coffee, I’m sloshing around already. :choocho:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

"if there was no authoritative body to control biblical reading, how could anybody know who was right? Who will give our conscience sure information about which party is teaching us the pure word of god, we or our opponents. Is every fanatic to have the right to teach whatever he pleases? "–martin luther

calvin agrees.

"if everyone has a right to be judge and arbiter on this matter, nothing can be set down as certain and our whole religion will be full of uncertainty. — john calvin.

(reference: n the bible" by karen armstrong)

** mosacked and hisalone: Are you paying attention???**

 

[Bill_Pick]

** mosacked and hisalone: Are you paying attention???**

Mosacked do you and Hisalone belong to the same church…Just a yes, or No

 

[jen_fla]

Tripping over your tongue again? Huh?

PAX DOMINI :signof the cross:

Shalom Aleichem

i often do. :whacky:

 

[Javl]

i often do. :whacky:

Then welcome to the club. I do too, although many times my teeth get in the way. :choocho:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Randy_Carson]

That’s why those who belong to him have the holy spirit as witness that calls out ‘abba! Father!’. it is the counselor that guides and teaches, not humans.

.

Oh…that’s interesting. I thought God established teachers in the Church:

[1 Corinthians 12:28](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12:28&version=NIV)
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

In fact, Paul even says:

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

Mature Christians ought to be teachers of others…at least according to the Word of God.

 

[joe370]

…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

---

Nottoosmart, perhaps you believe that God passed the canon of the bible directly to man, with no aid of the CC. If so, which men, when and where? Documentary proof please! Perhaps you could show me the Bible verse that backs up this claim, if in fact that is your claim?

The only way Protestants can know which books are truly the inspired books of the Bible, is for them to accept the teaching of the Catholic Church. If this is not acceptable, then please, show me the listing of the inspired books in the Bible, and show me who put it there? Please don’t cite the table of contents; that was put there by the Catholic church.

Let me see if I am understanding your logic: If the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals then the CC could not have given us the bible. Is that correct?

 

[Javl]

…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

---

Nottoosmart, perhaps you believe that God passed the canon of the bible directly to man, with no aid of the CC. If so, which men, when and where? Documentary proof please! Perhaps you could show me the Bible verse that backs up this claim, if in fact that is your claim?

The only way Protestants can know which books are truly the inspired books of the Bible, is for them to accept the teaching of the Catholic Church. If this is not acceptable, then please, show me the listing of the inspired books in the Bible, and show me who put it there? Please don’t cite the table of contents; that was put there by the Catholic church.

Let me see if I am understanding your logic: If the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals then the CC could not have given us the bible. Is that correct?

Good questions Joe. I’m anxious to read their answers. ( be prepared for something either unrelated or off on a tangent ). God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[valient_Lucy]

Then it was the Catholic Church, the pillar and ground of truth, that gave us the priest sex abuse scandals.

The next time you open your newspaper and read about this, thank the Catholic Church for giving it to you.

Are you suggesting that the Catholic Church instructed and ordered priests to abuse children?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Oh…that’s interesting. I thought God established teachers in the Church:

[1 Corinthians 12:28](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12:28&version=NIV)
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

In fact, Paul even says:

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

Mature Christians ought to be teachers of others…at least according to the Word of God.

Randy,

I quoted a list of Scriptures, too. He still hasn’t responded to mine.

As you, and most of us know, the N.T. is full of passages on teaching. I really don’t think he is looking for truth–sad to say.

Anna

P.S. Good to bump into you again.

 

[benedictus2]

That’s why those who belong to him have the holy spirit as witness that calls out ‘abba! Father!’. it is the counselor that guides and teaches, not humans.

.

If it is the councilor that guides and teaches , not humans, then we have one almighty confused counselor haven’t we.

He teaches you one thing, teaches another something else, etc, etc, etc.

Do you really think the Holy Spirit is THAT confused that one moment he is saying it is black and another that it is white?

If it is truly the Holy Spirit that is guiding you, would you not be all agreement as to the interpretation of the Bible instead of having hundreds of differing opinions?

The Holy Spirit unites. The devil divides.

Think about the implications of that. I mean REALLY THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[Mosacked]

Oh…that’s interesting. I thought God established teachers in the Church:

[1 Corinthians 12:28](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12:28&version=NIV)
And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

In fact, Paul even says:

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

Mature Christians ought to be teachers of others…at least according to the Word of God.

Its not interesting, its something that all Christians ought to know. The work of the counselor (ie Holy Ghost) IS TO COUNSEL and TEACH.

Why did Paul say these things with ‘criticisms’? Because these people had to be taught by men and revert to the elementary truths…what does this tell you? It means these people are not communicating with God…its as simple as that.

Will God speak to sinners? No. Will God speak to the unrighteous? No. So who speaks to these people? Men. To these people, these men are their teachers. But to he who speaketh to God and hears His voice…of what use are man’s understanding? He doth not need of any human teachers when he hath the counselor.

"MY SHEEP HEARS MY VOICE" - JESUS.

Notice that even until now, nobody asked “where and how can we hear His voice”? The heart is so black that it knows not when the light of day has shone.

.

 

[benedictus2]

Its not interesting, its something that all Christians ought to know. The work of the counselor (ie Holy Ghost) IS TO COUNSEL and TEACH.

Yes, but as I have said before, how do you know that it is indeed the Holy Spirit who is teaching you? The devil sometimes masquerades as the angel of light.

As I mentioned above, whatever spirit is guiding the reading of all this denominations (such that they come up with all different answers) is really one mghty confused spirit .

Will God speak to sinners? No. Will God speak to the unrighteous? No. So who speaks to these people? Men.

Sweetheart, God has been speaking to sinners from time immemorial and continues to do so. Every single one of us is a sinner. If you are claiming that God is speaking to you or to whoever esteemed person you are following because he is not a sinner you really ought to read your Bible more.

Jesus spoke to Paul. He was a sinner then and till the day he passed on to eternal life. He said so himself.

Every single person who claims to hear God’s voice is a SINNER. No exception.

To these people, these men are their teachers. But to he who speaketh to God and hears His voice…of what use are man’s understanding? He doth not need of any human teachers when he hath the counselor.

The demented who are going about proclaiming the end of the world also claim to hear God’s voice.

**“MY SHEEP HEARS MY VOICE” - JESUS. **

And there is the question. How do you know you are part of His sheep so you can clearly hear His voice?

In the last chapter of John, Jesus gives authority over his sheep to Peter. So whoever belongs to His sheep is being tended and fed by Peter and Peter’s successors.

Notice that even until now, nobody asked “where and how can we hear His voice”? The heart is so black that it knows not when the light of day has shone.

How about we do not ask because we already know? You only ask if you don’t know.

 

[Tomster]

Its not interesting, its something that all Christians ought to know. The work of the counselor (ie Holy Ghost) IS TO COUNSEL and TEACH.

Why did Paul say these things with ‘criticisms’? Because these people had to be taught by men and revert to the elementary truths…what does this tell you? It means these people are not communicating with God…its as simple as that.

Will God speak to sinners? No. Will God speak to the unrighteous? No. So who speaks to these people? Men. To these people, these men are their teachers. But to he who speaketh to God and hears His voice…of what use are man’s understanding? He doth not need of any human teachers when he hath the counselor.

"MY SHEEP HEARS MY VOICE" - JESUS.

Notice that even until now, nobody asked “where and how can we hear His voice”? The heart is so black that it knows not when the light of day has shone.

.

I do not know where you received your degree in theology but, if I were you, I would ask for a refund for all the tuition you paid.

In regard to the sinner, it is certain that sufficient grace for repentance is never witheld by God.

To those who continue to reject God, God still pleads with them. “I have spread forth my hands all the day to an unbelieving people, who walk in way that is not good after their own thoughts.” (Isaiah 65:2)

Christ tells us explicitly that he came “not to call the just, but sinners to penance.” (Luke 5:32)

And the story of Christ’s life is the history of a Good Shepherd whose principal care is for the lost sheep; of a merciful, forgiving Father whose arms are open to welcome back the prodigal.

It is just because the man who continues in sin is ever resisting the Holy Spirit, that his position is so terrible. Take a look at Romans 2:4-5 would you!

Even to the worst of sinners, God gives sufficient grace to enable them to repent.

In truth the Lord “dealeth patiently . . . not willing that any should perish but that all should return to penance.” ( 2 Peter 3:9)

 

[Javl]

Getting back to the subject, may I ask of those that deny that the CC gave us the Bible two questions?

1 ) What is the definition of Bible?

2 ) Who put the Bible together?

Thank you.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[benedictus2]

Getting back to the subject, may I ask of those that deny that the CC gave us the Bible two questions?

1 ) What is the definition of Bible?

2 ) Who put the Bible together?

Thank you.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Maybe some believe it fell from the sky and it was the KJV version

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

If The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, then just start with the oldest part of such - the Ten Commandments (given around 1400 BC) and document that The Catholic Church gave that to us. Not God, not Moses - The Catholic Church. Then proceed through all the material, doing the same thing, finally with the Revelation of John (given around 95 AD - generally regarded as the newest part) and show us that that came from The Catholic Church.

It is a often made Catholic claim (well, Catholics - The Catholic Church has never claimed this to my knowledge, my Catholic teachers certainly didn’t). But I’ve never seen anyone even attempt to document the claim as true. It’s one of those many things Catholics throw out there - over and over and over and over - as if it’s true if they just say it a lot, but never even attempt to substantiate as true.

.

 

[Javl]

.

If The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, then just start with the oldest part of such - the Ten Commandments (given around 1400 BC) and document that The Catholic Church gave that to us. Not God, not Moses - The Catholic Church. Then proceed through all the material, doing the same thing, finally with the Revelation of John (given around 95 AD - generally regarded as the newest part) and show us that that came from The Catholic Church.

It is a often made Catholic claim (well, Catholics - The Catholic Church has never claimed this to my knowledge, my Catholic teachers certainly didn’t). But I’ve never seen anyone even attempt to document the claim as true. It’s one of those many things Catholics throw out there - over and over and over and over - as if it’s true if they just say it a lot, but never even attempt to substantiate as true.

.

But how do we get through to you? There was no such thing as a Bible before the CC assembled all the extant scriptures, letters, etc., and decided, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which was inspired and which was not, and which was spurious, false or myth, and which was not. It was the members of the CC that did this. There was no other Church but the Catholic Church. It WAS the CC that gave us the Bible. Do you understand?

FYI; Bible means a collection of books in one volume. That is what the Bible is. God did not assemble it and it did not fall out of the sky ready made. Men made it under God’s inspiration and those men were members of the CC.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[PRmerger]

.If The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, then just start with the oldest part of such - the Ten Commandments (given around 1400 BC) and document that The Catholic Church gave that to us.

You would not know that the Ten Commandments are inspired were it not for the CC. If the CC had not included it in their Scriptures, you would dismiss it as you do, say, the Bhagavad Gita.

In other words, Josiah, each and every time you cite the Ten Commandments as inspired, it’s because the CC told you so. No other reason!

 

[PRmerger]

Let me just repost this from Josiah, whose admission, I believe, is HUGE, about the Ten Commandments, and, extrapolating to the entire canon of Scripture.

Believers acknowledged it.

That’s exactly right, Josiah! We are on the same page about this.

Now that we’ve established that Believers acknowledged the canon of Scripture, let’s see who these “Believers” were.

Did they celebrate the Eucharist? :yup:
Did they have bishops? :yup:
Did the practice infant baptisms? :yup:
Did they venerate Mary? :yup:

What Church does this group of “Believers” sound like to you?