"The Catholic Church is wrong"

[guanophore]

Well of course priests are forbidden to marry,

No, Martin. You have been misinformed about the Catholic faith.

and it used to be a sin to eat meat on Friday. Is it still?

The sin is disobedience, and yes, it is a sin to disobey those that God has appointed to shepherd the flock. However, the disciplines of fasting have been changed so that other forms of fasting are considered equally beneficial.

You sound confused. I have a Master of Divinity degree and have studied what you speak of, and it is not an issue. “You will seek Me and you will find Me when you seek for Me with your WHOLE HEART!”

Well, this is a good start! Now, if you are willing to learn what the Catholic Church actually teaches, instead of criticizing things you have made up in your head, you will be getting somewhere!

 

[guanophore]

Ecclesiates 5:10; He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity.

1Timothy 6:9-10; 9 But those who want to get rich fall into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Matthew 6:24; No one can serve 2 masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Hank, these are all good verses about not makng an idol out of money. However, they have nothing to do with gambling.

I thought you claimed to be Cathloic? You don’t know why it is wrong to eat meat?

The Catholic church does not teach that it is wrong to eat meat.

Here is why, because you have to do something in order to feel that you are working out your salvation.

No, Hank. Salvation has nothing to do with how someone “feels”. It has to do with being in a right relationship with God. Sometimes, this actually is the opposite of how one “feels”.

If you are not working at it, then you have dead works, in which case you will not be able to enter heaven. Work, work, work.

There is a big difference to working out what has already been placed within, and working “on” something. We cannot “work” our way to heaven.

And if you say enough Hail Mary’s, and you beg Peter to intercede with Mary,

Are you trying to be funny, or are you really just ignorant about this? Were you taught a Catholic prayer where you were “begging Peter to intercede with Mary”? I have never heard of such a preposterous idea, however, I concede that I have not heard it all!

and you find all these other Saints to put you on their intercesary list to present to God endlessly, you just might get to go to purgatory, but only if your a really, really good boy or girl. K?

There is some truth to this, yes. Clearly the saints do intercede for us endlessly before God. And if our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees, we are on the way!

The alternative to working out your own salvation is to trust God has given you a way to be saved as is told in God’s word if you only take the time to see it.

are you suggesting that God’s word does not tell us we are to work out our salvation?

You would learn that you can do nothing to earn the free gift of salvation, it has to be given.

And it has been! However, we know that not everyone receives that gift, do they?

Wow, that’s a misrepresentation of Catholic doctrine and you know it. You need to stop misrepresenting, or this conversation’s over. See my above posts.

I don’t think he does know. I am not sure he is reading the posts, either. It seems to me that he has come here to enjoin us to repent, and leave the errors of Catholicism.

Please contact the administration office of the University that issued your Doctor of Divinity, and demand your money back.

Wow! You blew through that with out ever touching the question.
Try again, if you die tonight, will you go to heaven or hell?

According to the Apostolic Teaching, we entrust our souls to a faithful creator:

1 Cor 4:3-5
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.

Failure to do this is considered the sin of presumption.

You are not saved by a church denomination. You can only be saved by Jesus. He suffered died and was buried, on the 3rd day He rose again in fulfilment of the scriptures.

Did you know that this is part of a Catholic creed?

He spoke in parable in fulfillment of the scriptures. He was born of a virgin, in fulfillment of scriptures.
He healed the laim and made the blind to see, in fulfillment of the scriptures.

These things are all true. I know this is off topic, but how does one get a degree who has such atrocious spelling?

The laim man begging at the Gate Beatiful was leaping and praising God, in fulfillment of the scriptures. Anyone seeing a pattern here? I believe God’s word was given credibility in Jesus life and through out the New Testament. Scriptures are being fulfilled today, some good and some scarry prophesies. You do not see them if you are not reading God’s word.

You still have not substantiated where those “scriptures” came from. How do you know the book you are whacking us over the head with is really Scripture?

 

[guanophore]

The RCC seems to be fulfilling scripture, but you will not believe it when you are too hard hearted to look into God’s word to find what He is telling His church,

Yes, I agree! The Catholic church is fulfilling the prophesies of Scripture! Who is too hard hearted to see this?

John 14:12-14
2 Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.

The Apostles could never have conceived of EWTN!

which is not the RCC, most of you are like the pharasies and the scribes, you only argue pointless matters because the message seems to not fit your way of thinking.

Honestly, Hank, do yourself a favor, and read the forum rules. If you don’t follow them, you will end up getting banned.

The pharasies knew they were the one true church too, how many of them were saved?

Only God knows! Acts 6:7 The word of God continued to spread; the number of the disciples increased greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith. "

History has a way of repeating itself. God bless you all. Thank you for your warm and welcoming conversations. All I asked is that you campare the false teaching you have blindly accepted as truths, to what God’s word actually says. I aske dfor you to show me Where you found these false teachings.

Is it any wonder that we could not find any false teachings in the Church that Jesus founded?

  We are living in the last days,

I must confess, I do have the sense that your membership here may be very short.

and God will not hold back His wrath forever. Unless you know that Jesus is Lord of your life, you fall under His wrath. I don’t want any of you to go to hell, but unless you repent of your sins, that is what your future will be.

This is, indeed, the Catholic gospel. I am glad some of it has survived through the filters!

I am not going to be on here after this night.

Whether by your own choice, or not, this is likely to be the case.

Those who are willing to here truth, will hear it, but I feel my time has been waisted

I hope you will heed this “feeling” and realize that you have been misled, and trying to convince us that your wrong ideas are what we believe is, indeed, a waste of time.

by the petty arguements of some hard hearted hates of the truth. No one can say that they are innocent of God’s wrath.

On the contrary, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ!

None can say that they were not informed. You will have no excuse on judgement day as you stand before a Holy and Just God who must punish sin. Can the RCC cough up enough intercesion to go arround?

May we be made worthy of the calling! Are you volunteering to go to the battle lines of intercession?

You have been warned and now you must make a choice. I have been mocked and called a liar by many.

I really don’t think you are lying. The fact that you are pandering lies is probably not your fault. You have been misinformed, and you do sincerely seem to beleive what you have been told.

You have piled more judgement on yourselves. I will pray that you can have a change of heart and follow the one true God before you run out of time. Good bye.
God bless you all,

Thanks. I can use all the prayers and blessings I can get.
HankZ

 

[guanophore]

They really don’t understand that Jesus established one holy catholic and apologetic church, they probable have never hear of that!

Have you been putting brandy in that eggnog?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

&c,&c…&c…

Granted, he should not have been, but there has been a gross and flagrant poor catechesis in the last 40 years, and a whole generation of misinformed Catholics who were taught outright lies in catechism classes. I know, I was one of them! I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt that someone misled him.

**Hi Guan,
I am not joking someone in a group of Tiber swimmers that I am coaching said their RCIA instructor is not Catholic. IEven with that, it is beyond comperhension that Hanz was ever Catholic, then again, maybe not. Depends which doctrine of the church he broke forcing him to have to leave and develop this Hate of the Catholic Church to protect his ego and justify his departure. The problem is this isn’t Kansas and no matter what he does he can’t make his church become the Catholic church! Remember to keep him in your prayers! I actually feel a hurt child crying out when he attackes our faith! he isn’t evil, just damaged.

God Bless**

 

[guanophore]

Are you so decieved that you believe Catholicism is not a denomination?

Do you know what “denomination” means? It is how all other ecclesial communities distinguish themselves from the original church. If there were no original church, there would be no need to denominate!

But then refuse it Saturday night.

The fact that people profess faith, then betray it, does not invalidate the faith. Peter denied Christ, but that did not invalidate the truth of what JEsus taught.

Only God's word, but you don't believe it anyway.

You still have not established that the book you are using is actually God’s word. Making a statement like this about what another group of people believe or not is an example of prejudice and bigotry.

You are seeking the tradtions of men, and foresacking the council of God.

More prejudicial, judgemental, and bigoted expression. You have claimed to know the heart of others.

God’s word paints a different picture in Revelation 17 and 18

Do you think these chapters somehow nullify Mary’s prayers for the faithful? I think you have misunderstood the scripture.

Thank you for your advice.

We do our best!

You have a lot to learn about your family history.

As a catholic, I was taught by drunk priests who could hardly stand to live. One of them was a chain smoking alcoholic town drunk. The other either attempted suicide or was so much of a drunk, they had to send him away for a few months. His predicesor was gay and left the church to pursue his lustful life style. The replacement of these 2 was worse then both of them put together. Can you do any better then this, Jesus said they hated me, they will hate you. Something like that anyway.

This explains a lot! I think Satan knows just where to attack to do the most damage. Testimonies such as yours bears witness to this.

I have seen what the RCC puts forth as leaders and frankly, I would rather follow Christ and take your insults then follow a false teacher who is not following Christ.
HankZ

What you have seen, Hank, is the fruit of the evil one attacking the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We can see that such attacks are very effective by looking at the effect it has had on your life. You have mistaken the infallible teaching of the Church with the corrupted persons who were supposed to represent it. It is wise not to follow a false teacher who is not following Christ. However, the Head of the Church is Christ, and we cannot go astray when we follow Him. I hope you do not let the sins of other people cloud your perceptions of HIs Truth.

I am worried because you seem to have fallen for Satans lies and are headed to hell. I fear for you, especially since you are more than happy to follow him and believe that you are ok. It troubles me deeply.

I believe that you are sincere in this, and you othink this way because of your horrible personal experience of the Catholic faith and gross misunderstanding of what the Church actually teaches.

I do read scripture and that is where I find the only truths available. You it is are to afraid of reading God’s word and hearing what He has to say. If this were not true, you would be fleeing the Catholic Church.

Have you considered that, when we read it, we just understand it differently than you?

Why do you think John was amazed in Revelation? It was because he saw what the followers of Christ had started as the church had become. Do not be decieved any longer, beg God for forgiveness that you may escape the fires of hell, before you run out of time.

HankZ

And here I thought it was because he got a glimpse into heaven!

 

[guanophore]

Hi Guan,
I am not joking someone in a group of Tiber swimmers that I am coaching said their RCIA instructor is not Catholic. IEven with that, it is beyond comperhension that Hanz was ever Catholic, then again, maybe not

I think it is very likely that he is telling the truth in post 712. Given this experience, it is not surprising that he is so hostile toward the Catholic Church.

There are many non-Catholics who understand the faith better than Catholics. It is s a sad fact that many Catholics, including the teachers, are poorly catechized.

Depends which doctrine of the church he broke forcing him to have to leave and develop this Hate of the Catholic Church to protect his ego and justify his departure.

Given the contents of # 712, I suspect he was just looking for some authentic expression of the faith.

Remember to keep him in your prayers! I actually feel a hurt child crying out when he attackes our faith! he isn't evil, just damaged.

God Bless

Yes, and I am sure it is no accident the Spirit led him here so that we could add him to our prayer lists!

 

[benedictus2]

This is where I may be able to help you. OSAS is not a no holds bar in that you are free to do whatever when ever. I understand that people have been mislead by this idea. Once a person, like myself, is saved, they do not want to sin any longer. not that the pleasures of this life are not tempting, and I’m certainly not free from sinning, but forgiven regardless. I would have unbelievable guilt if I were to participate in something as disgusting as sex with a prostitute. This would be a sin against God who has given me the very breath in my lounges yet I would not loose my salvation. This is the difference between OSAS and works type salvation.

How do you account for Martin Luther’s statement that he can commit adultery 6 times and that it will not impinge in any way on the fact that he is already saved.

With OSAS, the question still remains, would one who has been still be considered saved even should he say rape a woman and during the course of the rape was shot by someone in the head?

There is no guarantee that one who has claimed Jesus to be Lord and Saviour will not commit a terrible sin. Where does that leave OSAS.

As a catholic, I was taught that unless your good deeds added up to higher than your bad deeds, you would have to find extra favor with the saints and with Mary to pray for your soul and even then, you would have to be purged of sins in the purgatory realm. I can sin, but I cannot loose my salvation. This is the peace that Christ has given His followers. We can attain peace in this life. Once you truely knoww Jesus, you step out of the fallen world and into the Kingdom of God.
HankZ

You have either been badly mistaught or have failed to listen. Either way you are not in possesion of the truth about the Catholic Church judging by the foregoing statement.

Your presence here is probably God’s way of rectifying the matter.

I will get to a fuller answer of this last bit tomorrow as I am about to fall asleep on the keyboard.

 

[benedictus2]

I have seen what the RCC puts forth as leaders and frankly, I would rather follow Christ and take your insults then follow a false teacher who is not following Christ.
HankZ

How sure are you that you are following Christ? To follow Christ is to DO HIS WILL. To do what HE COMMANDS.

For that matter, how do you know it is His will?

 

[Martin777]

i see …a little man with a big eraser.
i am confused…lol…
why was it a sin to eat meat on friday?

.

Ask your priest or look it up. If God were really guiding your infallable Popes, you wouldn’t have things like that called sin and then…oops…changed.! And of course you have the fact that until relatively recently it was a SIN to read the Bible! Which infallable pope thunk that one up, and which one infallably unthunk it? Ahhhh, marvelous succession!

 

[sambos671]

Ecclesiates 5:10; He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity.

1Timothy 6:9-10; 9 But those who want to get rich fall into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Matthew 6:24; No one can serve 2 masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Those verses don’t say anything about gambeling. Just about money or greed. So you’re infering gambeling is wrong from these verses. Then a business man who manufactures a product (we’ll call it a wigit, yes I went to business school) and is unsure of the demand and takes a chance by puting large amounts of capital (sum of money) with the hope that it will pay off is therefore a sinner? Or better yet how about stock traders who trade betting on selling shares at a higher price then when they are bought? You need better verses to prove your point.

 

[sambos671]

I thought you claimed to be Cathloic? You don’t know why it is wrong to eat meat? Here is why, because you have to do something in order to feel that you are working out your salvation. If you are not working at it, then you have dead works, in which case you will not be able to enter heaven. Work, work, work. And if you say enough Hail Mary’s, and you beg Peter to intercede with Mary, and you find all these other Saints to put you on their intercesary list to present to God endlessly, you just might get to go to purgatory, but only if your a really, really good boy or girl. K?

The alternative to working out your own salvation is to trust God has given you a way to be saved as is told in God’s word if you only take the time to see it. You would learn that you can do nothing to earn the free gift of salvation, it has to be given.

So… You don’t fast. Which is why many baptist pastors are very fat.

 

[Singinbeauty]

So… You don’t fast. Which is why many baptist pastors are very fat.

Was this really necessary?

 

[SD_Catholic]

And of course you have the fact that until relatively recently it was a SIN to read the Bible!

You learned this in college too? … Could you produce some evidence of this?

SD

 

[Ag_not]

…the fact that until relatively recently it was a SIN to read the Bible!

Oh please, I beg you, stop with this already.

As someone not belonging to any church yet, will you help me?

Will you direct me to the actual church document that says it was **a sin **to read the Bible.

If you can do that, I humbly submit that you are an angel of the Lord sent to this forum to save us from ourselves.

If you cannot do that, you have lost all credibility and rather than show yourself in the light of someone who is here to debate and learn and contribute (although not necessarily agree), you show yourself as an uneducated, hate filled, reprobate with bad breath and dirty fingernails

Now, I await.

The ACTUAL CHURCH document please, not a website repeating your slander or a link to a book by Lorraine Boetner.

Bruxilda boils the kettle, makes coffee, and settles down to read the entire New York telephone directory.

She fears she may be in for a long wait

 

[sambos671]

You are not saved by a church denomination. You can only be saved by Jesus. He suffered died and was buried, on the 3rd day He rose again in fulfilment of the scriptures.

He spoke in parable in fulfillment of the scriptures.

He was born of a virgin, in fulfillment of scriptures.

He healed the laim and made the blind to see, in fulfillment of the scriptures.

The laim man begging at the Gate Beatiful was leaping and praising God, in fulfillment of the scriptures.

Anyone seeing a pattern here? I believe God’s word was given credibility in Jesus life and through out the New Testament. Scriptures are being fulfilled today, some good and some scarry prophesies. You do not see them if you are not reading God’s word. The RCC seems to be fulfilling scripture, but you will not believe it when you are too hard hearted to look into God’s word to find what He is telling His church, which is not the RCC, most of you are like the pharasies and the scribes, you only argue pointless matters because the message seems to not fit your way of thinking. The pharasies knew they were the one true church too, how many of them were saved? History has a way of repeating itself. God bless you all. Thank you for your warm and welcoming conversations. All I asked is that you campare the false teaching you have blindly accepted as truths, to what God’s word actually says. I aske dfor you to show me Where you found these false teachings.
We are living in the last days, and God will not hold back His wrath forever. Unless you know that Jesus is Lord of your life, you fall under His wrath. I don’t want any of you to go to hell, but unless you repent of your sins, that is what your future will be. The RCC is taking millions of souls to hell and the people are following so openly that God can’t hold back His judgement for too much longer. In light of other prophesies being fulfilled through out the world, I hope you turn to God tonight before you go to sleep and beg for Him to save you from this idolistic religon that you have fallen so far into. Praise God, He is good and faithful to save those whom seek is face. I have been obsessing the last couple days, bewildered by how decieved some of you really are. I am not going to be on here after this night. Those who are willing to here truth, will hear it, but I feel my time has been waisted by the petty arguements of some hard hearted hates of the truth. No one can say that they are innocent of God’s wrath. None can say that they were not informed. You will have no excuse on judgement day as you stand before a Holy and Just God who must punish sin. Can the RCC cough up enough intercesion to go arround? You have been warned and now you must make a choice. I have been mocked and called a liar by many. You have piled more judgement on yourselves. I will pray that you can have a change of heart and follow the one true God before you run out of time. Good bye.
God bless you all,
HankZ

Where did you get the first part of this discourse? Obviously from the apostle’s creed. You would be amazed at how many beliefs you hold that come from the Catholic church.

As far as the last days we’ve been living in them since Jesus resurection. Long couple of days huh.

 

[sambos671]

As a catholic, I was taught by drunk priests who could hardly stand to live. One of them was a chain smoking alcoholic town drunk. The other either attempted suicide or was so much of a drunk, they had to send him away for a few months. His predicesor was gay and left the church to pursue his lustful life style. The replacement of these 2 was worse then both of them put together. Can you do any better then this, Jesus said they hated me, they will hate you. Something like that anyway.

I have seen what the RCC puts forth as leaders and frankly, I would rather follow Christ and take your insults then follow a false teacher who is not following Christ.
HankZ

Why don’t you hold protestants to the same standard? Leave each denomination for bad leaders they possess.

 

[sambos671]

Was this really necessary?

No but it was funny. But you’re right maybe I shouldn’t be so tit for tat. I apologize. I have not yet achieved what we all strive for. Sometimes I don’t even try.

 

[sambos671]

Oh please, I beg you, stop with this already.

As someone not belonging to any church yet, will you help me?

Will you direct me to the actual church document that says it was **a sin **to read the Bible.

If you can do that, I humbly submit that you are an angel of the Lord sent to this forum to save us from ourselves.

If you cannot do that, you have lost all credibility and rather than show yourself in the light of someone who is here to debate and learn and contribute (although not necessarily agree), you show yourself as an uneducated, hate filled, reprobate with bad breath and dirty fingernails

Now, I await.

The ACTUAL CHURCH document please, not a website repeating your slander or a link to a book by Lorraine Boetner.

Bruxilda boils the kettle, makes coffee, and settles down to read the entire New York telephone directory.

She fears she may be in for a long wait

The eyes are back. Very nice eyes BTW. though no matter where I move they seem to follow me…

 

[Ag_not]

The eyes are back. Very nice eyes BTW. though no matter where I move they seem to follow me…

Stop flattering yourself!!! I am NOT eyeing you up !!!