"The Catholic Church is wrong"

[tqualey]

Hi, HankZ

I apologize for joining in late … there are a lot of posts to catch up on… and I did my best… Now, let’s see…

As a catholic, I was taught by drunk priests who could hardly stand to live.
HankZ

Yes, alcoholism is a real problem - not only amongst priests, but with pastors, rabbis and members of every congreatation. Even polythesists and atheists suffer from it, too. The estimate is that 17.6 million people in the US (about 1:12) suffer from alcoholism (niaaa.nih.gov/FAQs/General-English/)). When a man becomes a priest - he remains a man: weak, sinful and still very much in need of Christ… and, in that sense, just like the rest f us.

In addition to this unfortunate experience - your priest gave you scandal - and that is a very serious and sad issue. It still has an influence on your thoughts and writing. As a simply Catholic layman, let me apologize for this profound failure and moral lapse.

The other either attempted suicide or was so much of a drunk, they had to send him away for a few months. His predicesor was gay and left the church to pursue his lustful life style.
HankZ

Suicide is the 8th leading cause of deaths for males in the US (policyalmanac.org/health/archive/suicide.shtml ) and for someone who is charged with the responsibility of directing others to follow in the footsteps of Christ on our journey to be with Him in Heaven - this must have come as a major shock. The first time I heard about it, I was profoundly shocked. My previous statement about priests remaining men and remaining frail and weak is true here, too.

There are those who have done much worse - and have given profound pain to individuals and a major scandal to the entire world - as priests who were pedophiles. But, as you probably guessed - national statistics cut across all lines: all human beings are subject to the potential for such failures as you witnessed and sadly experienced. To say that members of every religious and non-religious belief have failed their congregations. Members of congregations have failed their church. But, this is really not the issue, is it?

I have seen what the RCC puts forth as leaders and frankly, I would rather follow Christ and take your insults then follow a false teacher who is not following Christ.

If you are going to follow Christ, then it would appear to me that you will need to do what Christ said - and He said much more then have Faith (even the size of a mustard seed…Matt 17:19-20). While you are looking at Matthew’s Gospel - go to the Last Judgement and see how ‘works’ figure into the way God rewards or punishes our actions: Matt 25:35

This same Christ that you want to follow, gave the Keys of the Kingdom to Peter - the man Christ would call ‘Satan’ in almost the next sentence (Matt 16) - and the man that would deny Christ three times (Matt 26:34). Since Christ is God - Christ knew what would happen to Peter - and yet Christ chose Peter to build His Church upon. Frail, cowardly and, yes, very sinful Peter - and Christ chose him to do this particualr job. Do you know why?

Actually, only God knows the absolute answer here - but, my guess was to prove that His Chruch does not rest on sinful men but is protected and made Holy by God the Holy Spirit. Christ told His Apostles before ascending into Heaven that the Holy Spirit would protect and build His Church - the Catholic Church - and this has been true since the very first Pentecost Sunday to this very day (John 15:26). The same statement I gave you about priests remaining men - weak and sinful and in need of Christ - applies to every Pope, too.

So, my guess is that, although you have been badly scared by witnessing lapses in moral behavior by those who should have been setting the best of examples, it is time to move on. Don’t keep reliving these painful experiences - you will never heal if you do that. Bitterness just mocks its host as it feeds upon you.

God bless

 

[benedictus2]

You can’t be convinced, for the exact same reason a Mormon can’t be shown the truth about the prophet Joseph Smith or a Jehovah’s Witnes can’t be shown that Jesus is God. Same reason.,
And you’re right- I am no scholar! But it doesn’t take a scholar to expose the folly of Rome.

But it may well take a scholar to expose the lies of the reformation and its offsprings.

Next time you post, consider the points raised and rebut them accordingly rather than making such sweeping statements.

If someone said, we gave you the Bible, say something like “No you didn’t because of such and such fact”.

That is how you debate.

 

[Martin777]

You havent exposed anything, except your own ignorance of the Catholic Faith, of course.

If you only knew how wrong you are. You are like the Pharisees Jesus dealt with. All head, but nothing where it counts. You’ve only been born once, my friend. Figure it out before it’s too late.

 

[CWBetts]

If you only knew how wrong you are. You are like the Pharisees Jesus dealt with. All head, but nothing where it counts. You’ve only been born once, my friend. Figure it out before it’s too late.

Don’t talk down to me. I have been part of Protestent belief systems. I know the Scriptures. God has led me to his One True Church.

 

[KingAlfred]

Why is everybody an expert?

And, do they have the right to criticize?

I run into non-Catholics Protestants all the time, who criticize Catholicism and have all sorts of opinions on Christian beliefs and why the Catholic Church is wrong about this or that… and yet, these same people, seldom, if ever… attend any church and do not themselves, behave like Christians.

Additionally, many of those who complain about, what is “wrong” with Catholicism, know little or nothing about Catholic beliefs.

Now, what’s up with that?

You’re right. Tremendous ignorance of Christian theology and history exists in this, a mostly Christian nation. It’s appalling.

 

[Martin777]

But it may well take a scholar to expose the lies of the reformation and its offsprings.

Next time you post, consider the points raised and rebut them accordingly rather than making such sweeping statements.

If someone said, we gave you the Bible, say something like “No you didn’t because of such and such fact”.

That is how you debate.

I generally use the New American Standard Bible, which is WIDELY considered to be the most faithful to the Greek and Hebrew. But I can take your Bible and its verses will refute your false doctrines of Mary exaltation, purgatory, canonization of “saints”, and most importantly, salvation by Jesus PLUS. You add works to your salvation, not out of a regenerated, grateful heart, but out of fear you won’t be saved. It points to one deadly, sad fact. It is the fact that keeps all ‘religions’ from salvation: You have never seen the SUFFICIENCY of the cross. Period, end of story. You don’t understand this verse: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the GIFT of God, not as a result of WORKS, so that no one can boast.” (Eph. 2:8.9) You have never seen that, and so you think you have to add to the incredible atonement! You add one single work to what Jesus did, and you cannot be saved. You don’t need to, and God REFUSES to give his priceless gift to anyone who tries to earn it. TRULY good works flow from a regenerated heart after the new birth. That’s all we really need to discuss. Get that right and everything else will take care of itself. We would LOVE to help you in any way we can to experience that new birth.

 

[Ag_not]

You can’t be convinced, for the exact same reason a Mormon can’t be shown the truth about the prophet Joseph Smith or a Jehovah’s Witnes can’t be shown that Jesus is God. Same reason.,
And you’re right- I am no scholar! But it doesn’t take a scholar to expose the folly of Rome.

Ok, thank you first of all for admitting you lied about your qualifications. No problem though - once saved always saved. And besides, thou shalt not bear false witness - I mean, God was in a bit of a mood that day, let’s face it, everyone lies, it’s cool. No problem. Although God thinks He set forth a commandment, WE know it’s occasionally optional right? And besides, all’s ya good do is say Jesus I Believe, and wooooshhh!!! All forgotten about - salvation never in jeopardy.

Sorry, Im rambling, now, to what I wanted to say about your post - Yes, I can be convinced. Unlike some people here, I do ACTUALLY have 2 degrees and am working on my Masters right now as we speak. I have a very open mind and am full of questions. I work like this - you say …XYZ! I then take XYZ apart, go back to source documents, read the history around XYZ, read up the social, economic, political and moral climate of the time relevant to XYZ, read opponents and proponents of XYZ, read criticisms of XYZ - but only by respected authors in the field relevant to XYZ of course, and then I reach my own conclusion, evidenced by the literature searches - plagorism is a no-no in my book - and - Ta Dah !!! You may or may not have convinced me, but you can be sure I looked at what you said under a microscope for the truth.

So, you throw me a bone of catholic dogma or doctrine that is anti Biblical, I will look at it in terms of the above described, and if I agree with you and you’ve proven your point, I will announce it all over CAF, leave RCIA immediately - and I AM NOT KIDDING - and look to the Holy Spirit and you and your church for guidance of my soul.

It was only a few months ago that the intercession of Mary, the Blessed Mother of God, opened my eyes to the reality of Her Son, and from there I got to the critical issue of saving my soul for all eternity, or burning in Hell for all eternity.

This issue is VERY serious to me.

So shoot - and save my soul !

Over to you…

 

[Matariel]

Still waiting for your reply, Martin777…

 

[Martin777]

Ok, thank you first of all for admitting you lied about your qualifications. No problem though - once saved always saved. And besides, thou shalt not bear false witness - I mean, God was in a bit of a mood that day, let’s face it, everyone lies, it’s cool. No problem. Although God thinks He set forth a commandment, WE know it’s occasionally optional right? And besides, all’s ya good do is say Jesus I Believe, and wooooshhh!!! All forgotten about - salvation never in jeopardy.

Sorry, Im rambling, now, to what I wanted to say about your post - Yes, I can be convinced. Unlike some people here, I do ACTUALLY have 2 degrees and am working on my Masters right now as we speak. I have a very open mind and am full of questions. I work like this - you say …XYZ! I then take XYZ apart, go back to source documents, read the history around XYZ, read up the social, economic, political and moral climate of the time relevant to XYZ, read opponents and proponents of XYZ, read criticisms of XYZ - but only by respected authors in the field relevant to XYZ of course, and then I reach my own conclusion, evidenced by the literature searches - plagorism is a no-no in my book - and - Ta Dah !!! You may or may not have convinced me, but you can be sure I looked at what you said under a microscope for the truth.

So, you throw me a bone of catholic dogma or doctrine that is anti Biblical, I will look at it in terms of the above described, and if I agree with you and you’ve proven your point, I will announce it all over CAF, leave RCIA immediately - and I AM NOT KIDDING - and look to the Holy Spirit and you and your church for guidance of my soul.

It was only a few months ago that the intercession of Mary, the Blessed Mother of God, opened my eyes to the reality of Her Son, and from there I got to the critical issue of saving my soul for all eternity, or burning in Hell for all eternity.

This issue is VERY serious to me.

So shoot - and save my soul !

Over to you…

What did I lie about?

 

[Ag_not]

Still waiting for your reply, Martin777…

cough

Sorry, I didn’t realise there was a que

I’m next in line

 

[SIA]

I think it is a foul when anyone does it.

I’ve seen you do it plenty.

 

[SIA]

I generally use the New American Standard Bible, which is WIDELY considered to be the most faithful to the Greek and Hebrew. But I can take your Bible and its verses will refute your false doctrines of Mary exaltation, purgatory, canonization of “saints”, and most importantly, salvation by Jesus PLUS. You add works to your salvation, not out of a regenerated, grateful heart, but out of fear you won’t be saved. It points to one deadly, sad fact. It is the fact that keeps all ‘religions’ from salvation: You have never seen the SUFFICIENCY of the cross. Period, end of story. You don’t understand this verse: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the GIFT of God, not as a result of WORKS, so that no one can boast.” (Eph. 2:8.9) You have never seen that, and so you think you have to add to the incredible atonement! You add one single work to what Jesus did, and you cannot be saved. You don’t need to, and God REFUSES to give his priceless gift to anyone who tries to earn it. TRULY good works flow from a regenerated heart after the new birth. That’s all we really need to discuss. Get that right and everything else will take care of itself. We would LOVE to help you in any way we can to experience that new birth.

This is so very true. AMEN!

 

[benedictus2]

Don’t talk down to me. I have been part of Protestent belief systems. I know the Scriptures. God has led me to his One True Church.

Praised be to God for that. And may He continue to lead other souls as well. Sadly, some refuse to listen.

I have heard that it is a practice amongst shepherds that for strays the leg is broken when they refuse to heed the shepherd . Maybe a different kind of breaking is necessary. That of the will perhaps.

 

[benedictus2]

I generally use the New American Standard Bible, which is WIDELY considered to be the most faithful to the Greek and Hebrew. But I can take your Bible and its verses will refute your false doctrines of Mary exaltation, purgatory, canonization of “saints”, and most importantly, salvation by Jesus PLUS. You add works to your salvation, not out of a regenerated, grateful heart, but out of fear you won’t be saved. It points to one deadly, sad fact. It is the fact that keeps all ‘religions’ from salvation: You have never seen the SUFFICIENCY of the cross. Period, end of story. You don’t understand this verse: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the GIFT of God, not as a result of WORKS, so that no one can boast.” (Eph. 2:8.9) You have never seen that, and so you think you have to add to the incredible atonement! You add one single work to what Jesus did, and you cannot be saved. You don’t need to, and God REFUSES to give his priceless gift to anyone who tries to earn it. TRULY good works flow from a regenerated heart after the new birth. That’s all we really need to discuss. Get that right and everything else will take care of itself. We would LOVE to help you in any way we can to experience that new birth.

Now you’re talking some sense.

Okay, let’s do it an orderly fashion. Pick one subject at a time and let’s discuss that.

Which one would you like to start on? Mary? Purgatory? You name it. Just not confession because that is being debated to the hilt on another thread so you might want to go into that one for this topic.

 

[Cinette]

Your lack of understanding of what you read is obviously a major barrier for you.
And considering this is your only rubuttal to all the information provided, you obviously have no support to refute these posts which must be very frustrating. But truth is truth and cannot be anything else.

*Regarding private interpretations see 2 Peter 3:16

“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction.”
*

 

[benedictus2]

cough

Sorry, I didn’t realise there was a que

I’m next in line

Okay, which queue is this. I am lining up even though I don’t know what it is. It must be interesting if people are queuing up.

 

[benedictus2]

Regarding private interpretations see 2 Peter 3:16

“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction.”
* *

Let’s hear that one more time

“For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction.”

 

[Matariel]

Still waiting for your reply, Martin777…

Still waiting…

 

[benedictus2]

Don’t talk down to me. I have been part of Protestent belief systems. I know the Scriptures. God has led me to his One True Church.

CWBetts, have you ever considered that he might be extremely tall which is why he is talking down on you?:extrahappy: It is possible to get a sense of superiority when you are vertically superior

Okay I’m being silly

 

[CWBetts]

CWBetts, have you ever considered that he might be extremely tall which is why he is talking down on you?:extrahappy: It is possible to get a sense of superiority when you are vertically superior

Okay I’m being silly

I thought we Catholics didn’t have a sense of humor. We’re supposed to be glum all the time because we dont know true joy. At least thats what Protestants tell me…