"The Catholic Church is wrong"

[Ag_not]

Okay, which queue is this. I am lining up even though I don’t know what it is. It must be interesting if people are queuing up.

It’s the prophet Martin777 - he has come to redeem us from the clutches of some ungodly church and thrust us forth into the light of Salvation, whereupon we will be set free of the binds of sin forever, destined to walk in the Glory of the Almighty for all eternity.

Oh, and he’s got cheap DVD players as well for Christmas.

Now, back of the que lady, some of us have been here all night waiting our turn

 

[Cinette]

Hank has been wronged by the very church thats supposed to save him. Taunting does not bring people to the Lord just causes bitterness and strife. My idea of love is service. He’s not right. That’s fine to say he’s not right. What is not right is to basically say “your going to burn baby!” almost in a gloating manner. Hey you hope in your salvation but who knows you may not finish the race. I pray it is not so but its a possibility. Paul also says that you should take care not to offend a weaker brother. Paul also says “I am all things to all men so that some may be saved.”

You are a good and compassionate man and I agree with you that this is one thing we should never do: gloat, taunt, judge.

The very best thing we can do is to pray because Hank will not listen. It is a one way conversation with him

 

[benedictus2]

Mary was a Godly woman, according to scripture. She was chosen by God to do a wonderful work. She was married, had several children, lived her life, then she died. God’s word tells us it is appointed unto men, once to die, then the judgement.

Do you think Mary existed before God? How then did she become the mother of God? Jesus, the Son of God, was born of her, but He existed since before the foundations of the earth. Do you believe that Mary can somehow pull favors from God for you? She doesn’t know you. Mary is so enthralled with the fact she is in the presence of God that you mean nothing. Your relationship with God is all that matters for your eternity, same as was Mary. She trusted in God alone to Save her and He was faithful to her, as far as we know. Nothing says she was somehow removed from this earth before her time and that is a false teaching. I do not hate anyone who believes this lie, but only telling you that it is a lie.
HankZ

You have a very limited concept of heaven and of Mary’s exultedness.

Of course you are not Catholic so you will not know of Mary’s apparitions.

Check the miracle of Fatima. Almost 100,000 people witnessed that. Athesists and protestants included.

You remember the wedding at Cana. She intereceded for the wedding couple. And look at her pull on Jesus. He performed a miracle BEFORE HIS TIME. Re-read that passage and meditate on it. You might find that enlightening.

 

[benedictus2]

It’s the prophet Martin777 - he has come to redeem us from the clutches of some ungodly church and thrust us forth into the light of Salvation, whereupon we will be set free of the binds of sin forever, destined to walk in the Glory of the Almighty for all eternity.

Oh, and he’s got cheap DVD players as well for Christmas.

Now, back of the que lady, some of us have been here all night waiting our turn

Right. I may have to leave. My knees are not all that good and standing for too long strains my back. But good luck to you all. Though you probably will need a lot more than luck.

 

[benedictus2]

I thought we Catholics didn’t have a sense of humor. We’re supposed to be glum all the time because we dont know true joy. At least thats what Protestants tell me…

What do you mean sense of humour? I was quite glum and dour when I was writing that, thinking of all that hell fire and damnation should I get a word wrong

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Martin777,

I’ve been reading your posts … and may I suggest you go back and re-read them for content… For example, in your last post you make one claim (unspoorted) and two derogatory remarks:

If you only knew how wrong you are. You are like the Pharisees Jesus dealt with. All head, but nothing where it counts. You’ve only been born once, my friend. Figure it out before it’s too late.

Seriously, you were told how a debate works: provide facts and do not engage in name calling.

The idea, at least as I appreciate it, is that we dialogue and meet in Charity. Merely saying someone is ‘wrong’ simply because you disagree with them is not really the essence of an adult discussion. Someone is preceived as ‘wrong’ because of very specific deviation from established fact(s). Your job in the discussion is to provide those facts (errr… with their references… )

Calling people names and trying to impune integrity (e.g., “Pharisees” and “All head but nothing where it counts (sic)”. ) just falls short of the goal for a mature discussion.

But, do not forget, the core of one’s belief in Christ is not logic, but Faith. People can read Christ’s words (like being ‘born again’) and somehow get the idea that this is all there is to it. Look at Matthew 25, the account of the Last Judgment - and try to find where being ‘born again’ is one of the criteria for those entering Eternal Glory. The presumption is that all of the souls assembeled before God were ‘born again’ - and then God goes and looks at the actions (‘works’) of each person.

These are the words. Our job as Christians is to believe that Christ is God and knew exactly what He was talking about.

God bless

 

[Cinette]

There are indeed - but, erm, you’re not one of them, in all fairness

However, I encourage you to ask questions and listen to the answers, take notes, then research, proper sources, not deranged lunatics like Boetner and White, then come back and question some more.

It’s what Im doing - and it works - but you have to have a desire to know the Truth - so pray for the Spirit to open your mind.

If one person, could just show me one thing that the Catholic church taught that was in error, (The Official Church, not someone’s interpretation of what they THINK the Church said), I’d quit RCIA like a shot; but noone can. And if you look at some of my threads, God knows I encouraged them to.

Give it a shot. You might even like it.

Friend.

Ag_nt. You are giving excellent advice.

I am not going to identify them but we have some really very good people who know their faith on this thread. Anyone seeking truth would heed your advice Ag_nt. This would result in th truth being learned.

Above all, we need to pray. All of us.

Cheers
Cinette

 

[Martin777]

cough

Sorry, I didn’t realise there was a que

I’m next in line

Please, what did I lie about?

 

[Cinette]

I have financially supported a lot of missionaries through the years and have gotten excellent reports through video, live reports, etc. There are more born again people in China than there are in the U.S. and they are living under mild to moderate oppression.

The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”

*You are hysterical my friend - don’t be. Clear your mind. As an earlier poster advised you - so do some research, listen and stop ranting and raving.

*:bowdown2:
**

 

[Matariel]

Now, back of the que lady, some of us have been here all night waiting our turn

Like me, and I’m at the front of the line.

Now, please, Martin777, all I ask is a point-by-point rebuttal of my post. Is there anything so hard about this?

Seriously, I want a dialogue with you about this.

 

[benedictus2]

If you only knew how wrong you are. You are like the Pharisees Jesus dealt with. All head, but nothing where it counts. You’ve only been born once, my friend. Figure it out before it’s too late.

If I surmise correctly, unless you have been baptised in the Trinitarian way you are the one who has only been born once. But since I think you are an ex-Catholic I would say you and CWBetts have both been born twice. The second at your baptism.

So stop the name calling. Simmer down. It’s not good for your heart.

 

[benedictus2]

Like me, and I’m at the front of the line.

Now, please, Martin777, all I ask is a point-by-point rebuttal of my post. Is there anything so hard about this?

Seriously, I want a dialogue with you about this.

Hhhmm, if you insist on that, there is little chance he will have enough time to discuss all the other points he raised with me.

Right. I’m back to the end of the queue but this time I am bringing a chair.

 

[Cinette]

First the prayers of the Rosary

the Apostles Creed ( Mary not mentioned
the Gory be ( Mary not mentioned)
The Our Father( Mary not mentioned)
The Hail Mary( first part taken directly from the Gospel sencond part ask for her to pray for us)

then there are the meditations on the mysteries all but 2 are . directly form the Gospels. So i really don,t know what your problem with the Rosary could be?
now as for membership in the Catholic Church. you said you were Baptized in the Catholic Church you are a member end of story . Also the Catholic Church has no dues a 10% tithe is not even required the churches stance is that you should give as you are able to if its a $1.00 and year or a $1,000,000.00 a year it makes no difference. it some one at the parish you were in said differently then you should have went top the priest or your Bishop about it. I have no idea why the Priest may have refused baptism for your son but I have never heard of such a thing.

No he wasn’t baptized, he was babtized - he said it TWICE - babtized. That figures

 

[Ag_not]

Right. I’m back to the end of the queue but this time I am bringing a chair.

I’ve got a flask of coffee and some home made cookies

Plenty to go around for everyone

Say, if he does deal with me first, would anyone mind - mine was just a quickie:

1 single example of a catholic anti-biblical teaching. I want something that the catholic church teaches that goes AGAINST the Bible. Should be easy for a M.Div. I would have thought If he does deal with me quickly I’ll leave the coffee and cookies for you guys

 

[Martin777]

Hi, Martin777,

I’ve been reading your posts … and may I suggest you go back and re-read them for content… For example, in your last post you make one claim (unspoorted) and two derogatory remarks:

Seriously, you were told how a debate works: provide facts and do not engage in name calling.

The idea, at least as I appreciate it, is that we dialogue and meet in Charity. Merely saying someone is ‘wrong’ simply because you disagree with them is not really the essence of an adult discussion. Someone is preceived as ‘wrong’ because of very specific deviation from established fact(s). Your job in the discussion is to provide those facts (errr… with their references… )

Calling people names and trying to impune integrity (e.g., “Pharisees” and “All head but nothing where it counts (sic)”. ) just falls short of the goal for a mature discussion.

But, do not forget, the core of one’s belief in Christ is not logic, but Faith. People can read Christ’s words (like being ‘born again’) and somehow get the idea that this is all there is to it. Look at Matthew 25, the account of the Last Judgment - and try to find where being ‘born again’ is one of the criteria for those entering Eternal Glory. The presumption is that all of the souls assembeled before God were ‘born again’ - and then God goes and looks at the actions (‘works’) of each person.

These are the words. Our job as Christians is to believe that Christ is God and knew exactly what He was talking about.

God bless

Please forgive me where I was not loving. I grew up in a family that was partly Catholics and partly dead Methodists (they did not cram it down my throat) and when I discovered the simple gospel, I realized how many people are perishing, whether Catholic or simply religious protestants, and it causes me to get quite intense about doctrine that keeps people in bondage.

I am interested in discussing the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace. Are you game?

 

[benedictus2]

Please forgive me where I was not loving. I grew up in a family that was partly Catholics and partly dead Methodists (they did not cram it down my throat) and when I discovered the simple gospel, I realized how many people are perishing, whether Catholic or simply religious protestants, and it causes me to get quite intense about doctrine that keeps people in bondage.

I am interested in discussing the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace. Are you game?

Can I join in this discussion?

 

[Martin777]

I’ve got a flask of coffee and some home made cookies

Plenty to go around for everyone

Say, if he does deal with me first, would anyone mind - mine was just a quickie:

1 single example of a catholic anti-biblical teaching. I want something that the catholic church teaches that goes AGAINST the Bible. Should be easy for a M.Div. I would have thought If he does deal with me quickly I’ll leave the coffee and cookies for you guys

My wife is waiting for me to come to bed…but as I have said, I think the issue that fits that description and is the most important, is how Catholic doctrine differs from the biblical doctrine of salvation by grace through faith. And I will warn you in advance, I am a staunch Calvinist. Are you game?

 

[Martin777]

I’ve got a flask of coffee and some home made cookies

Plenty to go around for everyone

Say, if he does deal with me first, would anyone mind - mine was just a quickie:

1 single example of a catholic anti-biblical teaching. I want something that the catholic church teaches that goes AGAINST the Bible. Should be easy for a M.Div. I would have thought If he does deal with me quickly I’ll leave the coffee and cookies for you guys

The kids can all watch and learn (or gnash their teeth!)

 

[Cinette]

Ok, thank you first of all for admitting you lied about your qualifications. No problem though - once saved always saved. And besides, thou shalt not bear false witness - I mean, God was in a bit of a mood that day, let’s face it, everyone lies, it’s cool. No problem. Although God thinks He set forth a commandment, WE know it’s occasionally optional right? And besides, all’s ya good do is say Jesus I Believe, and wooooshhh!!! All forgotten about - salvation never in jeopardy.

Sorry, Im rambling, now, to what I wanted to say about your post - Yes, I can be convinced. Unlike some people here, I do ACTUALLY have 2 degrees and am working on my Masters right now as we speak. I have a very open mind and am full of questions. I work like this - you say …XYZ! I then take XYZ apart, go back to source documents, read the history around XYZ, read up the social, economic, political and moral climate of the time relevant to XYZ, read opponents and proponents of XYZ, read criticisms of XYZ - but only by respected authors in the field relevant to XYZ of course, and then I reach my own conclusion, evidenced by the literature searches - plagorism is a no-no in my book - and - Ta Dah !!! You may or may not have convinced me, but you can be sure I looked at what you said under a microscope for the truth.

So, you throw me a bone of catholic dogma or doctrine that is anti Biblical, I will look at it in terms of the above described, and if I agree with you and you’ve proven your point, I will announce it all over CAF, leave RCIA immediately - and I AM NOT KIDDING - and look to the Holy Spirit and you and your church for guidance of my soul.

It was only a few months ago that the intercession of Mary, the Blessed Mother of God, opened my eyes to the reality of Her Son, and from there I got to the critical issue of saving my soul for all eternity, or burning in Hell for all eternity.

This issue is VERY serious to me.

So shoot - and save my soul !

Over to you…

This IS a challenge if ever there was one! I wonder if he will take you up on that!

WOW!

Cheers
Cinette

 

[Martin777]

Hhhmm, if you insist on that, there is little chance he will have enough time to discuss all the other points he raised with me.

Right. I’m back to the end of the queue but this time I am bringing a chair.

I wish I could say I can keep track of all of you! I lead a busy life. I have not been keeping up with all the responses to my postings. Bad boy.