"The Catholic Church is wrong"

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Indyann said:
You are so very wrong. Not at all embarrassed by posts you refer to. In fact I am very proud to have such a fine young apologist defending our faith.

Jesus said “You WILL know the truth” I sincerely hope that you will some day know it.

You have no idea if tens of millions the world over were gloriusly saved or not. Now, I don’t know how many Saints have been canonized, but if those are the ones, you are speaking of, you are correct. Otherwise, its just speculation on your part.
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I have financially supported a lot of missionaries through the years and have gotten excellent reports through video, live reports, etc. There are more born again people in China than there are in the U.S. and they are living under mild to moderate oppression.

The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”
 
Martin777 said:
I have financially supported a lot of missionaries through the years and have gotten excellent reports through video, live reports, etc. There are more born again people in China than there are in the U.S. and they are living under mild to moderate oppression.
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My great uncle was a missionary to China. There are also a HUGE number of underground Catholics in China.
The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”
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Huh? The Catholic Church teaches that anyone in heaven is a saint. Now, it’s true… there are only a handful of people that are so good on earth that we can be definitively assured of being in heaven, but there are MANY more! And although works play a role in salvation, it is GRACE that gets us into heaven. Even the Lutherans have resolved their problems with us on that point. Read the Joint Declaration on Justification sometime.
 
Martin777 said:
I have financially supported a lot of missionaries through the years and have gotten excellent reports through video, live reports, etc. There are more born again people in China than there are in the U.S. and they are living under mild to moderate oppression.

The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”
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Do not presume to think you know more about Catholic doctrine than Catholics do! You clearly don’t understand the difference between a saint and a Canonized Saint. You also do not understand the Catholic dactriane that we ware saved by Grace through faith. You also need to learn how to take the Bible as a whole, and not take verses out of context. Before you start acting pompous, make sure you know waht you are talking about. (For example what is meant by “works of righteousness”)
 
CWBetts said:
… You clearly don’t understand the difference between a saint and a Canonized Saint. You also do not understand the Catholic dactriane that we ware saved by Grace through faith. You also need to learn how to take the Bible as a whole, and not take verses out of context. Before you start acting pompous, make sure you know waht you are talking about.
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Please have a little respect!! He has a Masters of Divinity Degree don’t cha know !!! :rolleyes:
 
Ag_not said:
Please have a little respect!! He has a Masters of Divinity Degree don’t cha know !!! :rolleyes:
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I almost responded sarcastically regarding the masters but as you have been so well controlled I felt it a good example to follow. Thank you Agi
TO
Originally Posted by Martin777
I have financially supported a lot of missionaries through the years and have gotten excellent reports through video, live reports, etc. There are more born again people in China than there are in the U.S. and they are living under mild to moderate oppression.

The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”
Well I just can’t hide it, you certainly impress me. Your degrees have certainly spoken for the institution you attended. And what was that Institution so that I may make note of it for due reference?:rolleyes:
If you want to have a serious discussion you might want to ease up on the atitude
 
Martin777 said:
The RCC doctrine on saints is one of the clear proofs that your church is. In fact the embarassment to Christianity. Paul’s letters clearly show that ALL believers are saints (literally ‘holy ones’ or ‘set apart ones’). Digest that, friend. The New Testament teaches that. See how Paul addresses the churches-“saints”. Meanwhile the RCC is totally contradicting God’s Word by limiting sainthood to a handful!!! That is a HUGE indicator that they don’t even know what a saint is! Boys and girls, let’s ponder for a moment what that means about the gospel that the RCC proclaims. It is one of WORKS. And it is the kind of thing that caused Paul in Galatians to say, “If anyone teaches you another gospel, let them be accursed!”
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This is the whole problem with protestants. They profess to know Catholic doctrine when they know zilch.

We are all saints for the simple reason of being a member of the communion of saints, comprende? That is Catholic teaching.

In a more specific way, we give the term Saint to those already enjoying beatific vision, those we are fairly sure are defnitely with God.

Now someone here on earth can profess Jesus as Lord and Saviour, then “backslide” terribly and die unrepentant. Now, where do you think that soul would be? Can we still say he /she is a saint?

As for works, Christ Himself said feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. **HE **also said it is not those who call him Lord Lord who will enter His kingdom, but those WHO DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER.
James writes "
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. "
 
benedictus2 said:
This is the whole problem with protestants. They profess to know Catholic doctrine when they know zilch.

We are all saints for the simple reason of being a member of the communion of saints, comprende? That is Catholic teaching.

In a more specific way, we give the term Saint to those already enjoying beatific vision, those we are fairly sure are defnitely with God.

Now someone here on earth can profess Jesus as Lord and Saviour, then “backslide” terribly and die unrepentant. Now, where do you think that soul would be? Can we still say he /she is a saint?

As for works, Christ Himself said feed the hungry, clothe the naked etc. **HE **also said it is not those who call him Lord Lord who will enter His kingdom, but those WHO DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER.
James writes "
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. "
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it matters not where one looks in scripture you will find works and faith tied together in the old and new testaments.picked up my bible let it flip open to a random page…from the Epistle of St. Paul to Titus3:8"This saying is true,and concerning these things I desire thee to INSIST,that they who beleive in God may be careful to excel in GOOD WORKS.These things are good and useful to men"
 
Martin777 said:
An amazing rant from someone who appears to be very pompous rather than Christlike.
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Huh? I was talking normally, simply rebutting you. I see nowhere where I supposedly acted pompous? That was not my intention.

And you were the one bragging about your Divinity Degree and financial support of missionaries… :rolleyes:
Among many other blessings we enjoy is the confidence and peace Jesus described when He said, “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free”. Once he does that for you, you’ll know why tens of millions the world over were gloriously saved despite the confusion of the RCC.
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You didn’t even give me a refutation of any of the points in my post that you posted this quote right after. Care to rebut it?

I’ll be waiting for your response. :coffeeread:
 
HankZ said:
I can tell you beyond any question, that if Mary was worthy of the praise she is recieving, God’s word would be evident of that. Tradtions can and are wrong. Prayers done in repitition as the pages do, are wrong. The rosary is a long repitition of prayers to Mary. She might not be refered to as God, but these prayers given to her, treat her as such. I was a Catholic, went to catholic school, an alter boy for years, confermed, babtised, first communion, and told I did not belong in the church because I didn’t make a large enough payment to the church. I was refused mombership and they refused to babtise my son. I do have a little bit of knowledge of what I speak.
HankZ
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First the prayers of the Rosary

the Apostles Creed ( Mary not mentioned
the Gory be ( Mary not mentioned)
The Our Father( Mary not mentioned)
The Hail Mary( first part taken directly from the Gospel sencond part ask for her to pray for us)

then there are the meditations on the mysteries all but 2 are . directly form the Gospels. So i really don,t know what your problem with the Rosary could be?
now as for membership in the Catholic Church. you said you were Baptized in the Catholic Church you are a member end of story . Also the Catholic Church has no dues a 10% tithe is not even required the churches stance is that you should give as you are able to if its a $1.00 and year or a $1,000,000.00 a year it makes no difference. it some one at the parish you were in said differently then you should have went top the priest or your Bishop about it. I have no idea why the Priest may have refused baptism for your son but I have never heard of such a thing.
 
fbl9 said:
memorization does equal knowing
in spite of you guys tooting your horns to your own little beat we listen to His Church
thousands of godly scholars,each marching to beat of their own horn.what a horrendous noise that must be…compared to millions of horns in tune with each other.
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I don’t doubt it is a horrendous noise in your ears. Millions of believers all over the world creating and singing triumphant, exciting music that actually befits the magnitude of the new birth they have discovered, rather than the sad, solemn, even boring stuff the RCC endures-stuff even most Catholics don’t choose to listen to when they tune their radios! I bring music up because it is so near to God’s heart and reveals so much. The contrast in the vitality of the music reveals the contrast in the vitality of the faiths. I dare you to compare.
But boys and girls, here’s the killer: when I talk to Catholics about Jesus’ mandate to be born again (“Ye must be born again.”), they react JUST like Nicodemus did- they look sideways and say “How…??”. They might struggle to repeat. something you told them-something lifeless about water baptism. Why don’t you just get REAL honest-be a man and admit-You don’t have a CLUE about what all the fuss is over the New Birth! God “resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.”. If you humble yourself you just might get saved! Then you"ll understand for the first time in your life why Paul calls ALL Christians saints!
 
Martin,
What’s with this “Boys and girls” stuff? You come across not as enlightened (which I am sure you imagine yourself to be), but as condescending and arrogant. With every post, you prove how much you don’t know. And as far as the Masters degree? Education does not equate intlelligence. I know alot of educated idiots. So come down off your high-horse, and discuss, instead of blindly bashing. Also, reasoned arguments would be appreciated.
 
Martin777 said:
An amazing rant from someone who appears to be very pompous rather than Christlike. We continue to be unimpressed. You no doubt embarass your Catholic brothers. Among many other blessings we enjoy is the confidence and peace Jesus described when He said, “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free”. Once he does that for you, you’ll know why tens of millions the world over were gloriously saved despite the confusion of the RCC.
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Well, it seems by this post that you are the one giving an amazing rant and being pompous and not Christlike.

It does not matter that you are unimpressed. The poster was not trying to impress you, just stating facts. And facts are not facts so they can impress you.

Well it seems you are rather deluded in your confidence for you remain bound up in lies. But no doubt the truth will set you free albeit slowly by the looks of it.

Gloriously saved? Says who? My goodness, you really are burried deep in the mire of lies. But there is hope. Always there is hope.
 
Ag_not said:
There are indeed - but, erm, you’re not one of them, in all fairness 😛

However, I encourage you to ask questions and listen to the answers, take notes, then research, proper sources, not deranged lunatics like Boetner and White, then come back and question some more.

It’s what Im doing - and it works - but you have to have a desire to know the Truth - so pray for the Spirit to open your mind.

If one person, could just show me one thing that the Catholic church taught that was in error, (The Official Church, not someone’s interpretation of what they THINK the Church said), I’d quit RCIA like a shot; but noone can. And if you look at some of my threads, God knows I encouraged them to.

Give it a shot. You might even like it.

Friend.
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You can’t be convinced, for the exact same reason a Mormon can’t be shown the truth about the prophet Joseph Smith or a Jehovah’s Witnes can’t be shown that Jesus is God. Same reason.,
And you’re right- I am no scholar! But it doesn’t take a scholar to expose the folly of Rome.
 
Martin777 said:
You can’t be convinced, for the exact same reason a Mormon can’t be shown the truth about the prophet Joseph Smith or a Jehovah’s Witnes can’t be shown that Jesus is God. Same reason.,
And you’re right- I am no scholar! But it doesn’t take a scholar to expose the folly of Rome.
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You havent exposed anything, except your own ignorance of the Catholic Faith, of course.
 
Paul did refer to all believer as saints and the Title Saint in the Catholic Church refers to those that we can be assured are in Heaven. The church does not make any declaration on who has not gone on to heaven but does acknowledge those that through there life gave witness to make sure they are in heaven.

there have been so many things stated by the non Catholic poster on this thread that are just so wrong and inaccurate that I can not even begin to address them all

the teaching of Limb come from that Christ says we are to be baptized to enter into heaven if as in the case of a child they die without being baptized we do not know how God deals with their salvation surely they are not in hell but we do not know how they are in heaven without baptism.

Purgatory: there are references to it in both the OT and NT it is a place or time or both of the purification of the soul for entrance into heaven.

this thread needs to close as it has degraded into a bashing of the Church and that is not doing anyone any good
 
Martin777 said:
We know the Savior and His Spirit lives in us to guide us through his ministry of illumination.
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You sure about that?

Two questions for you courtesy of po18guy:

Does the Spirit Unite?
Does the Devil divide.

Hey, if the Holy Spirit is truly with you, you would be One Holy Protestant Church not the hodge podge of 30000 or so denominations.

However, I do confrirm that God has not abandoned you. He can’t blame you all for the folies of your fathers

You do posses some truth… And that maybe enough to illuminate your path in the meantime.
 
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