Yes, he was being very prophetic, that Gamaliel.
What in fbl’s words make you say he is Christ’s enemy?!?
Claify this please, are you or are you not saying that in order to get to heaven you must do good deeds? I was not aware that deals were made with God. What could you have that God would find worthy of making a deal with you? What could you offer for your side of this deal?
The bible says that your good deeds are like filthy rags. Without Christ, you can do nothing good. You are confused about Jesus teachings and mans traditions, for instance Jesus never prayed to His mother. He prayed only to His Father. Jesus didn’t even ask John the Baptist to put in a good word for Him.
Is maintaining your salvation by works, not considered works? Back to the drawing board, the Bible says “Not by works.”
Then why do you argue that you have to do works to fulfill your part of the deal?
That makes it hard to accept. Even our good deeds will be counted against us if we do not have the salvation offered only through the Blood of Christ. Crazy doesn’t even begin to discribe it when you try to see it from man’s perspective. Then again God is not a man, His ways are not our ways.
Covenant, man!!! Covenant!!! All Covenants are between two parties. That’s the “deal”, Hank!
So, which is it, Hank?
Good deeds are wonderful, or good deeds are like filthy rags?
ok…So, instead of refuting that Jesus commands and admonishes us to do good works, you pull the old “bait and switch”. I don’t pray to Mary, Hank. I ask Mary to Pray for Me, for the prayers of the righteous are powerful indeed!!!
If I said, “it is only through good works that I will maintain my salvation”, then you might have a coherent point. Where did I say that, Hank? I’m simply saying good works are a piece in the puzzle, if you will allow my slang. Deal?
Only because Jesus commands it, and repeatedly tells us that we will be judged on our works. That’s what makes me argue that I have to do works to fulfill my part of the deal. But it is not these works in and of themselves that seal the deal, Hank! Then I’d be like the Judaizers and preachings Salvation by Works!!! That’s crazy talk!
And when did I say that I was going to do those good deed without the salvation offered through the blood of Christ?!?!? I do those deeds in Christ, or else I’d be boasting. You ought to know me well enough by now to know that I don’t boast, my brother!!!
OSAS is not such a recent theology. I read it through out scripture. I was once like you and refused to see it, but eventually I accepted this truth and God blessed me by allowing more scripture to be seen. Here is another can of worms that we haven’t the energy to expel on it this nght, but predestination is repeated over and over again. God chose those whom He would save before the foundation of the world. Jesus said He would not loose any of those whom the father gave Him. It is one of those biblical truths that you can’t see unless the Holy Sprirt guides you to see it. God does not delite in sending people to hell, but He has not chosen to save everyone. How many times I fought with my pastor, who was also one of my best friends, that we do have a choice. We would argue for hours about this. The Holy Spirit finally guided me. Then, whole passages that I never got, were suddenly flowing with such power. God is not Catholic, He is God and the sooner you realize that Christ follower is not the same as Catholic, the sooner you may be freed to understand God and what a wonderful gift He offers for nothing in return because He loves you that much. I am not saying that a Catholic can’t be a Christ follower, I am saying that either in this mountain or that, we are able whorship Jesus for who He is and never mind what we are.
My statements are never, ever directed at you. I am sorry if I sometimes word things poorly and it seems as though I point a finger. I am a high school drop out who has only recently learned how to use a computer. It is never my intent to play God and pretend to understand your relationship with the Savior. Again, I am sorry and do not mean any insult or otherwise.Covenant, man!!! Covenant!!! All Covenants are between two parties. That’s the “deal”, Hank!
So, which is it, Hank?
Good deeds are wonderful, or good deeds are like filthy rags?
ok…So, instead of refuting that Jesus commands and admonishes us to do good works, you pull the old “bait and switch”. I don’t pray to Mary, Hank. I ask Mary to Pray for Me, for the prayers of the righteous are powerful indeed!!!
If I said, “it is only through good works that I will maintain my salvation”, then you might have a coherent point. Where did I say that, Hank? I’m simply saying good works are a piece in the puzzle, if you will allow my slang. Deal?
Only because Jesus commands it, and repeatedly tells us that we will be judged on our works. That’s what makes me argue that I have to do works to fulfill my part of the deal. But it is not these works in and of themselves that seal the deal, Hank! Then I’d be like the Judaizers and preachings Salvation by Works!!! That’s crazy talk!
And when did I say that I was going to do those good deed without the salvation offered through the blood of Christ?!?!? I do those deeds in Christ, or else I’d be boasting. You ought to know me well enough by now to know that I don’t boast, my brother!!!
There are a couple of key reasons God has decreed that salvation would be “by grace through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, as a result of works, THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST” (Eph 2). Ever wonder why that last phrase is there? Elsewhere Scripture says “no flesh will glory in His presence”. Why is that? Well first if we saw what even the very best of us look like to His holy eyes we would be horrified. He is pure beyond measure. But us? In our natural state we are hopelessly sinful. In Isaiah he says even “our righteousnesses are like filthy rags to Him”.
Awwww sorry if your not. Just read eph 2:8,9 and tell me what God’s WORD says about your statement. What tense is “you have been saved”? You need to find out what you’ve been missing! It’ll change your life.
Could you tell me which post you are refering to. I didn’t mean to skip over you.
We do disagree on OSAS. Paul seems adament that salvation is free, and once you have it, there is nothing that is more powerful then God which could take it away. Not yourself and especially not sin which has already been defeated by Christ. He has not taken His throne yet, but that doesn’t change the fact that He has already defeated sin, death and Satan.
My love and obedience, freely given.
Hank, read post 293 and respond to that one as it was more directed to what you specifically had asked…
Ok, lets deal with one issue first to try and reach an understanding before we confuse things with another. This issue of OSAS seems to be hung up on nothing more than a lack of understanding which came first the chicken or the egg. We all know works are nothing without Faith, period. Now with that in mind Hank, lets stick to that issue first… OK?
What in that addressed any feelings that you insulted me. Instead, look at my reasoning and rebut that.
Where does Paul say that we can sin, and salvation won’t be taken away from us?
Wow. I thought we had spent multiple times on that. Rom 8 says “they that are in the flesh CANNOT please”. (He then goes on to say if you have the Holy Spirit in you, you are not in the flesh). Then in Eph he says Christians were CREATED in Christ FOR good works. So…works that come from Christians is what it’s all about. Works prior to the new birth do nothing to get us closer to God, though earthly good can come from them. Does that make sense?