The Chosen People

[Nyarlathotep]

I didn’t really get that but yeah… welcome to the forum

wasalam

Thanks! Nice little place you’ve got here.

Essentially, what I was trying to say (too soon after my first cup of coffee) was this:

The Jews are still the Chosen People by virtue of the Abrahamic Covenant and the reaffirmation of that Covenant at Sinai. The New Covenant cannot destroy that old covenant any more than Person 1 can breach a contract with Person 2 by virtue of a subsequent agreement with Person 3.

!السلام عليكم

 

[Lev23]

I would add this: Descendents of the first Jews who accepted Jesus The Christ, as well as modern Jewish converts to Catholicism are still God’s chosen people.

Someone earlier in this thead asked “chosen for what?” And that is a good question to ask. The Jews(Israel) are always chosen to bring forth God’s message. But that does not mean God never uses Gentiles. The fact is and is proclaimed by the scriptures, that in the past, and the present, and in the future God will use Jews to bring forth his message to the world. In Revelation, he brings forth 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. We can sit here and debate why he brings forth 144,000, but the fact is, he does.

What else are the Jews chosen for by God in the scriptures? Here are a few excerpts from Ezekiel 36, although all of chapter 36 is important-
**" 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel!

" ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the LORD have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.’ **

But yet to the world, and some religions find the idea scandulous and racist that God will bring his people back into the land of Israel, who by God’s own Word do not deserve what He will do for them.

So we can see at the moment, that by just being secular and resettling the land of Israel today, Jews are still being chosen by God.

 

[Lev23]

Messianic Jews follow a more Protestant model of Christianity.

While I am not referring to catholicism or any protestant denominiation, Messianic Jews are most concerned about legalism and the second coming of Jesus.

Some Churches believe that Jesus will not come back and reign in Israel. Messianic Jews believe the regathering of Israel today is fulfillment of prophecy leading up to the coming of Messiah. Some Churches scoff or even laugh at the current state of Israel. being part of God’s plan. Never mind the people running the government, but the fact that Jews are back in the land itself is not a welcomed thought in some churches.

Therefore it seems that Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah stay clear of Churches that hold to the thought Israel(land and the people)will not be restored and personally reigned over by Jesus Christ.

 

[Lev23]

If the Jews are God’s Chosen People(a posit I happen to agree with),why have they suffered and been persecuted for millenia?.Especially during the Holocaust?

As you can see, with prophecies like Ezekiel 36, 37, about the people and the land, prophecies like Zechariah 12 concerning the nations effort to eternally separate Jerusalem from Israel and God Himself, that the persecution of Jews will not cease anytime soon.

Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem!

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

While I am not referring to catholicism or any protestant denominiation, Messianic Jews are most concerned about legalism and the second coming of Jesus.

Some Churches believe that Jesus will not come back and reign in Israel. Messianic Jews believe the regathering of Israel today is fulfillment of prophecy leading up to the coming of Messiah. Some Churches scoff or even laugh at the current state of Israel. being part of God’s plan. Never mind the people running the government, but the fact that Jews are back in the land itself is not a welcomed thought in some churches.

Therefore it seems that Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah stay clear of Churches that hold to the thought Israel(land and the people)will not be restored and personally reigned over by Jesus Christ.

Interesting points all.

Certainly Jewish Christianity (or Messianic Judaism) is incompatible with some Christian beliefs. This is unremarkable.

But to what degree does Christianity, in general, undermine the Mosaic Law?

You can see in Acts that the apostles had problems as soon as they started going to gentiles. Peter refused to see the Centurian until he had the dream, presumably inspired by God, of God making non-kosher foods clean. It was a scandal among Jewish Christians to eat with gentiles and many presumed that gentiles would need to follow the Mosaic Law.

I think it is a mistake to dismiss the Mosaic Law as legalism. What it accomplishes more than anything else is to seperate Jews from gentiles and to the extent that Jews do not seperate themselves from gentiles they lose their identity. Christianity, on the other hand, seeks to be a universal institution.

Suppose, though, that the Judaizers had prevailed and gentiles were forced to be circumcised and to keep kosher to become Christian. On the one hand, Christianity would not have grown so quickly. But on the other hand, there would not be the tension between the OT and the NT.

Or suppose that Israel had not destroyed itself in war with Rome. In that case, Jewish Christians would likely have continued to occupy the leadership and keeping the Mosaic Law might have been the burden only of the clergy.

 

[Lev23]

Interesting points all.

Certainly Jewish Christianity (or Messianic Judaism) is incompatible with some Christian beliefs. This is unremarkable.

But to what degree does Christianity, in general, undermine the Mosaic Law?

I don’t think Christianity undermines the Mosaic Law to any degree. Simply put, as we all know, those under the New Covenant are under Grace. Grace from what? The Mosaic Law. No doubt Grace is appreciated more when you know what your being graced from. Gentiles, by the grace of God, can miraculously by grafted into the olive tree. It is not by the Mosiac Law.

If you notice in the OT, all the Laws and commandments seemed to be narrowed down more and more by people like King David and the prophets, until Jesus and the Apostles narrowed(not eliminated) all the Law and commandments down to one commandment-Love.

Christianity, on the other hand, seeks to be a universal institution.

I do not think this is a true attribute of the Church. Remember, all peoples of the world are called to be one new man in Jesus Christ with the Jew. Gentiles who are wild olive branches are grafted into the natural and good olive tree, and it is the root that supoorts them, not the wild branches supporting the root.

Embracing one’s Jewish roots of their Christian faith is more than hearing Jewish sounding sayings and liturgy in their Sunday worship services, it is believing the Jews still are chosen by the God of Israel.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I don’t think Christianity undermines the Mosaic Law to any degree. Simply put, as we all know, those under the New Covenant are under Grace. Grace from what? The Mosaic Law. No doubt Grace is appreciated more when you know what your being graced from. Gentiles, by the grace of God, can miraculously by grafted into the olive tree. It is not by the Mosiac Law.

Clearly the Jews were given both the Sinai and Last Supper Covenants. What is remarkable is how little Jesus spoke of gentiles. The idea of grafting the gentiles “into the olive tree” came from Paul.

If you notice in the OT, all the Laws and commandments seemed to be narrowed down more and more by people like King David and the prophets, until Jesus and the Apostles narrowed(not eliminated) all the Law and commandments down to one commandment-Love.

I think you would have a hard time arguing that the pre-Christian trajectory of Mosaic Law was one of narrowing. The Pharisees, for example, were adding to it with the Oral Law.

I do not think this is a true attribute of the Church. Remember, all peoples of the world are called to be one new man in Jesus Christ with the Jew. Gentiles who are wild olive branches are grafted into the natural and good olive tree, and it is the root that supoorts them, not the wild branches supporting the root.

Right, but we have the curious situation that those today who call themselves Jews have rejected Jesus. And there are virtually no Jewish Christians. Even the Messianic Jews are more of a curiosity to both Judaism and Christianity than a central pillar of either.

Judaism is a root in the historical sense but not in the contemporary sense. Of course, that could change, but it’s hard to imagine how the Jews could become the root again given the 2000 year wandering in the desert.

Embracing one’s Jewish roots of their Christian faith is more than hearing Jewish sounding sayings and liturgy in their Sunday worship services, it is believing the Jews still are chosen by the God of Israel.

But are we speaking here of Jews who reject Jesus, of Messianic Jews, of Christians as non-blood Jews? What does it mean now to make this claim?

 

[Lev23]

Clearly the Jews were given both the Sinai and Last Supper Covenants.

Correct–Jeremiah 31:31
“The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

What is remarkable is how little Jesus spoke of gentiles. The idea of grafting the gentiles “into the olive tree” came from Paul.

Actually, looking back at the events in the Gospels and Acts, one incident sticks out that speaks volumes about Jesus and the Gentiles. Jesus told the fate of Jerusalem because they did not recognize the time of God’s coming to her.
Luke 19:44
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you."

There was a set time for Jerusalem to expect her King, they did not, and this event happened after his triumphful entry into Jerusalem.
John 12:20-23
Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the Feast. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

Its seemed when the Gentiles started coming to see Jesus, he knew his hour has come. And it was later that Jesus’ Apostles, namely St.Peter, would learn and teach the Jews God has made the Gentiles clean and also to bring the message of the Gospel to the Gentiles for them to believe in it.

**Acts 15:7
After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. **

St.Paul used the olive tree analogy in Romans 11 to show the gentiles who came into the Church that God did not reject Israel by always having a remnant, and that all Israel will be saved when the deliverer will come from Zion.

Romans 11:13
I am talking to you Gentiles.

I think you would have a hard time arguing that the pre-Christian trajectory of Mosaic Law was one of narrowing. The Pharisees, for example, were adding to it with the Oral Law.

Matthew 22:34-40
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The Pharisees were adding to it with the Oral Law, or “fence laws” , that is laws to prevent people from breaking the original Laws. What was the problem with this and why were the Pharisees doing such a thing? Because they broke the covenant.
**Jeremiah 31:32
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD. **

Right, but we have the curious situation that those today who call themselves Jews have rejected Jesus. And there are virtually no Jewish Christians. Even the Messianic Jews are more of a curiosity to both Judaism and Christianity than a central pillar of either.

Judaism is a root in the historical sense but not in the contemporary sense. Of course, that could change, but it’s hard to imagine how the Jews could become the root again given the 2000 year wandering in the desert.

But are we speaking here of Jews who reject Jesus, of Messianic Jews, of Christians as non-blood Jews? What does it mean now to make this claim?

Reread Romans 11 about his remnant. Reread prophecies like Ezekiel 36 how the God of Israel will restore the land and the dispersered people of Israel to the land. The God of Israel through his Jewish Son Jesus Christ will restore his people entirely. It is clearly a good thing for the Church to cling to her Jewish roots.

 

[DonLeon]

May I interject an “FYI” here in response to some of the posts about Jews losing their identity when converting to Christisnity? The Hebrew Cathoilc Association is comprised of
Jews who have converted to Roman Catholicism and still keep their Jewish identity. Keep in mind that many of our Cathoilc ( and Protestant ) customs have their basis in Judaism.

As for those Christians who are anti-semites, just remember that Jesus IS A JEW, also
He is neither Roman Cathoilc nor Protestant. It is we who proclaim ouselves as such!
God Bless.

P.S. Please pray for the conversion of all Jews.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Reread Romans 11 about his remnant. Reread prophecies like Ezekiel 36 how the God of Israel will restore the land and the dispersered people of Israel to the land. The God of Israel through his Jewish Son Jesus Christ will restore his people entirely. It is clearly a good thing for the Church to cling to her Jewish roots.

But Romans 11 et alia simply hold out the hope that all Jews will eventually return to God (presumably by recognizing Jesus as the Messiah). But that is not at all controversial. I doubt there are any significant Christian denominations that don’t hope for this. See e.g. Romans 11:23.

The question is whether and how Jews (i.e. those who reject Christ) are or can be the root of the Olive tree.

Keep in mind also that it is not only Rabbinical Jews who have fallen away. Throughout the history of Israel there have been losses, most notably the ten lost tribes of the northern kingdom. Where are they today? It is folly to imagine that there are Jewish descendents of the lost tribes in any meaningful sense as their descendents would have intermarried with non-Jews for thousands of years. For all practical purposes, they are gentiles now.

It may be that both Rabbinical Judaism (which rejects Jesus as Messiah) and Christianity (which rejects the continuation of Mosaic Law even for Jews) are in error. Maybe there is something to Messianic Judaism. But it’s hard to see how, short of Jesus Second Coming, the differences could be resolved.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

May I interject an “FYI” here in response to some of the posts about Jews losing their identity when converting to Christisnity? The Hebrew Cathoilc Association is comprised of Jews who have converted to Roman Catholicism and still keep their Jewish identity. Keep in mind that many of our Cathoilc ( and Protestant ) customs have their basis in Judaism.

Right. But will the HCA (hebrewcatholic.org/) ever consist of the descendants of converted Jews? Will it perpetuate? Or will it remain simply an immigrant community through which Jewish converts pass as a first step in assimilation? Do members of HCA teach their children to keep the Mosaic Law and, in particular, to marry only Jewish Catholics?

 

[DonLeon]

Right. But will the HCA (hebrewcatholic.org/) ever consist of the descendants of converted Jews? Will it perpetuate? Or will it remain simply an immigrant community through which Jewish converts pass as a first step in assimilation? Do members of HCA teach their children to keep the Mosaic Law and, in particular, to marry only Jewish Catholics?

To answer your questions you will have to contact Mr. David Moss of the HCA. I do not know the answers and I am not in a position to answer them.
God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[chosen_people]

If the Jews are God’s Chosen People(a posit I happen to agree with),why have they suffered and been persecuted for millenia?.Especially during the Holocaust?

The ancient Romans could not fathom how, if the God of the Jews was the one almighty God, the Jews had fallen under Rome’s power.

The Roman Empire has long since crumbled to dust. All the other nations and peoples of the Roman empire are no more. Only the Jews remain. It is seemingly impossible that they of all the world’s ancient peoples have survived, but they have. Even more remarkable, that they have survived despite the animosity against them, through centuries of adversity aimed to make them victims for their stubborn insistence to continue to remain being Jews.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God. The Jews survived.

They are no longer a vassal state but have regained sovereignty over their homeland. This too is a seeming impossibility. They regained their independence a mere three years after one third of the Jewish people were destroyed in the genocide of the Shoah. They regained their independence despite being immediately attacked by the armies of five nations. In both cases the world stood by and watched. When Hitler rose to power the world shut their borders to the Jews leaving the Jews to his murderous wrath. During World war II not one country could spare one bomb on even one mission to put Auschwitz out of commission for even a single day. When the Jewish state was attacked not one country sent one soldier to help the survivors of Auschwitz. Instead they imposed arms embargos to prevent the Jews from defending themselves.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God.The Jewish nation was not extinguished forever in the ashes of the Shoah, the Jews won their war of re independence.

That the Jewish state survives today is also a seeming impossibility. It sits on a mere one per cent of the land of the middle east, in an area roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, surrounded by a billion enemies. It could not possibly survive but it does. Despite its precarious position it is seemingly so strong as to be deemed an “aggressor” by those who wish it ill.

The Jews make up a mere one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population. The have only been allowed to integrate within general western society in the last two hundred years. So small in numbers it is a seeming impossibility that Jews should be even seen or felt. However, despite their minuscule numbers their contributions to society are so vast that their enemies accuse them of “controlling the world”.

The ancient Romans could not fathom the God of the Jews. Today, their descendants cannot look at the Jew and not believe in God.

(please do not make any use of the above outside of this forum without permission)

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The ancient Romans could not fathom how, if the God of the Jews was the one almighty God, the Jews had fallen under Rome’s power.

This was never an issue for the Romans. The Romans did not treat religion the way that we do; they did not think in terms of religious truth. They were only too happy to encourage subject nations to continue their religious practices and, in fact, they required the Jewish priests to make sacrifices to Yaweh on behalf of the emperor. Only the Jews were shocked by Roman conquest.

However, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and finally Israel did influence the thinking of the early Christians who saw in it confirmation of their belief that the Jews who rejected Jesus had erred.

The Roman Empire has long since crumbled to dust. All the other nations and peoples of the Roman empire are no more. Only the Jews remain. It is seemingly impossible that they of all the world’s ancient peoples have survived, but they have. Even more remarkable, that they have survived despite the animosity against them, through centuries of adversity aimed to make them victims for their stubborn insistence to continue to remain being Jews. The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God. The Jews survived.

This is an innaccurate apples and oranges comparison. The nations of the Roman empire have survived in the same sense that the nation of Isarel has survived. There is no shortage of descendants of the Romans and their various nations today. It’s true that there is no longer a Roman empire but then there is no kingdom of Israel either. Modern Israel is more like modern Ireland than Biblical Israel.

 

[Lev23]

The ancient Romans could not fathom how, if the God of the Jews was the one almighty God, the Jews had fallen under Rome’s power.

The Roman Empire has long since crumbled to dust. All the other nations and peoples of the Roman empire are no more. Only the Jews remain. It is seemingly impossible that they of all the world’s ancient peoples have survived, but they have. Even more remarkable, that they have survived despite the animosity against them, through centuries of adversity aimed to make them victims for their stubborn insistence to continue to remain being Jews.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God. The Jews survived.

They are no longer a vassal state but have regained sovereignty over their homeland. This too is a seeming impossibility. They regained their independence a mere three years after one third of the Jewish people were destroyed in the genocide of the Shoah. They regained their independence despite being immediately attacked by the armies of five nations. In both cases the world stood by and watched. When Hitler rose to power the world shut their borders to the Jews leaving the Jews to his murderous wrath. During World war II not one country could spare one bomb on even one mission to put Auschwitz out of commission for even a single day. When the Jewish state was attacked not one country sent one soldier to help the survivors of Auschwitz. Instead they imposed arms embargos to prevent the Jews from defending themselves.

The Jews had only themselves and their eternal covenant with God.The Jewish nation was not extinguished forever in the ashes of the Shoah, the Jews won their war of re independence.

That the Jewish state survives today is also a seeming impossibility. It sits on a mere one per cent of the land of the middle east, in an area roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, surrounded by a billion enemies. It could not possibly survive but it does. Despite its precarious position it is seemingly so strong as to be deemed an “aggressor” by those who wish it ill.

The Jews make up a mere one quarter of one per cent of the world’s population. The have only been allowed to integrate within general western society in the last two hundred years. So small in numbers it is a seeming impossibility that Jews should be even seen or felt. However, despite their minuscule numbers their contributions to society are so vast that their enemies accuse them of “controlling the world”.

The ancient Romans could not fathom the God of the Jews. Today, their descendants cannot look at the Jew and not believe in God.

(please do not make any use of the above outside of this forum without permission)

Wow, another aspect the figure in to the OP’s question!

If you think about, every civilzation that sought to carry out their version of “the final solution” to the Jews ultimately faced extinction. And Israel lives on today.

We can go to Egypt, Babylon, Rome, etc. and dig in the ground to see what these people were up to hundreds of years ago, but the Jews are still alive and a nation today.

 

[Lev23]

The question is whether and how Jews (i.e. those who reject Christ) are or can be the root of the Olive tree.

I never said they are the root, but the root is Jewish. When it comes to the Olive Tree, the natural branches are the Jews, whether they are broken off or not.

Keep in mind also that it is not only Rabbinical Jews who have fallen away. Throughout the history of Israel there have been losses, most notably the ten lost tribes of the northern kingdom. Where are they today? It is folly to imagine that there are Jewish descendents of the lost tribes in any meaningful sense as their descendents would have intermarried with non-Jews for thousands of years. For all practical purposes, they are gentiles now.

Like I said reread Ezekiel 36, unless you believe this has already been fulfilled somehow, someway.

There, God is speaking to the whole house of Israel dispersed in all the nations. He never refers to them as “gentiles”, not even for practical purposes.

This is an innaccurate apples and oranges comparison. The nations of the Roman empire have survived in the same sense that the nation of Isarel has survived. There is no shortage of descendants of the Romans and their various nations today. It’s true that there is no longer a Roman empire but then there is no kingdom of Israel either. Modern Israel is more like modern Ireland than Biblical Israel.

Again, God in Ezekiel 36 tells the whole house of Israel they do not deserve what He is doing for them, that they profaned His holy name among the nations and for them to be ashamed of their conduct among the nations in dispersion. So Israel coming back into the land as mostly secular people is as biblical as it gets, for the moment. Because the restoration will be completed when Jesus comes back.

Modern Israel is like no other nation on Earth today. They are blamed for everything under the Sun, and no other nation is at the center of the other nations plans to divide the people from their capitol and their land.

1st coming of Jesus-Israel Judged for not recognizing the coming of God to them.
Luke 19:44
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you."

2nd coming of Jesus-the nations will be judged for their treatment of Israel.
**Joel 3:1-2
"In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.

Matthew 25:31-33
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.**

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I never said they are the root, but the root is Jewish. When it comes to the Olive Tree, the natural branches are the Jews, whether they are broken off or not.

The question, though, is whether the root is the historical Biblical Jews or contemporary Rabbinical Jews. If Rabbninical Jews, who are the natural branches, accept Jesus do they return to the root or are they merely grafted back on like gentiles?

Like I said reread Ezekiel 36, unless you believe this has already been fulfilled somehow, someway. There, God is speaking to the whole house of Israel dispersed in all the nations. He never refers to them as “gentiles”, not even for practical purposes.

Tell me how you would go about detecting a member of a lost tribe of Israel if they are a) not keeping the Mosaic Law, nor b) predominantly of Jewish ancestry? If you want to reach for mystery, be my guest. But otherwise you have to accept that the lost tribes were lost in history, not hiding away in some modern village somewhere.

Again, God in Ezekiel 36 tells the whole house of Israel they do not deserve what He is doing for them, that they profaned His name among the nations and for them to be ashamed of their conduct among the nations in dispersion. So Israel coming back into the land as mostly secular people is as biblical as it gets, for the moment. Because the restoration will be completed when Jesus comes back.

It’s certainly easy to believe that anything is possible upon Jesus return and the restoration of God’s kingdom on earth. But in that case, what would be the significance of secular Jews creating a democracy in lands not exactly coinciding with the ancient kingdom of Israel and lacking the central feature of Biblical Israel: the tabernacle/temple?

Modern Israel is like no other nation on Earth today.

Modern Israel is like every western democracy. It just happens to be ethnically Jewish.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

May I interject an “FYI” here in response to some of the posts about Jews losing their identity when converting to Christisnity? The Hebrew Cathoilc Association is comprised of
Jews who have converted to Roman Catholicism and still keep their Jewish identity. Keep in mind that many of our Cathoilc ( and Protestant ) customs have their basis in Judaism.

As for those Christians who are anti-semites, just remember that Jesus IS A JEW, also
He is neither Roman Cathoilc nor Protestant. It is we who proclaim ouselves as such!
God Bless.

P.S. Please pray for the conversion of all Jews.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

No, then the Catholic church would be man-made as you say here and in which it is not. It was established from Jesus Christ, given to St. Peter to rule as the first pope in which Jesus again asked him to do so. All other religions ARE man-made.

 

[DonLeon]

No, then the Catholic church would be man-made as you say here and in which it is not. It was established from Jesus Christ, given to St. Peter to rule as the first pope in which Jesus again asked him to do so. All other religions ARE man-made.

You mis-understand. I DID NOT say that The RCC is man made!. ***I said that Jesus is neither Catholic nor Protestant, He is a Jew. *** It is we who call ouselves Catholic because our church is universal, while the Protestants have separated from the CC and have split into myriads of sects and factions (over 30,000 world wide!).

                                                                                                   :tada:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You mis-understand. I DID NOT say that The RCC is man made!. ***I said that Jesus is neither Catholic nor Protestant, He is a Jew. *** It is we who call ouselves Catholic because our church is universal, while the Protestants have separated from the CC and have split into myriads of sects and factions (over 30,000 world wide!).

                                                                                                   :tada:

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

You said “It is we who proclaim as such…” not true. Therefore sounds like you saying WE are man made, doesn’t it?