The Church attempts to replace Christ with Mary?

[St_Redemption]

A non-Catholic friend of mine challenged the Catholic Faith on a point today and I would like to see how you guys answer it. He himself is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that Catholicism places way too much emphasis on Marianism and that it seems that the Church has attempted to replace Christ as the mediator between God and man with Mary as the mediator. Thoughts?

 

[bben15]

A non-Catholic friend of mine challenged the Catholic Faith on a point today and I would like to see how you guys answer it. He himself is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that Catholicism places way too much emphasis on Marianism and that it seems that the Church has attempted to replace Christ as the mediator between God and man with Mary as the mediator. Thoughts?

Your friend has never attended a Mass, has he? If he did, he would know that we do not do that.

Mary is the Mother of God, so she is held in high regard. But Christ is the mediator, and that will never change.

 

[Chatter163]

Why should we offer thoughts on something that is complete nonsense, erroneous, and insulting, to boot?

 

[St_Redemption]

Why should we offer thoughts on something that is complete nonsense, erroneous, and insulting, to boot?

It’s important to know how to answer these things. I told him some things but wanted to see any better ways to answer. On the contrary…it’s extremely important that these challenges be properly answered/

 

[vincent10395]

A non-Catholic friend of mine challenged the Catholic Faith on a point today and I would like to see how you guys answer it. He himself is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that Catholicism places way too much emphasis on Marianism and that it seems that the Church has attempted to replace Christ as the mediator between God and man with Mary as the mediator. Thoughts?

He is greatly misinformed. Catholics worship God (CCC 2084) and Honor and love Mary. Two completely different things. Why do we love and honor Mary? Because Christ did and He tells us to. " honor thy father and mother." Tell him to read the catechism. He should know what we really teach, instead of his biased sources where he got these ridiculous claims.

This is from Tim Staples’ “friends in High places”

What Part of One Doesn’t Make Sense?

The Catholic Church teaches Jesus Christ is our one mediator/intercessor. He is the only mediator, strictly speaking, because he is the only person in the universe who can mediate between the two parties needing to be reconciled. He is God, thus he has the infinite power required to appease God. He is man, thus he can make fitting atonement for the sin of man. Though this mediation is incommunicable in a strict sense, it does not preclude secondary mediators in Christ by way of participation.

The context of 1 Timothy 2 demonstrates this to be true. Just before St. Paul declared Christ to be our one, unique mediator/intercessor, he commanded all Christians to be intercessors (or mediators) in verses 1-2.

Further, the very definition of a priest is “a mediator between God and men.” All Christians are priests! All are not ministerial priests, but all Christians are priests nonetheless. First Peter 2:5,9 declares:

And like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

It follows then, that all Christians are mediators in a participatory sense in what Christ alone is by nature and absolutely.

Why would I go to the saints when I can go straight to God? The answer is not an either/or proposition. It’s both/and! One could say just as well: Why would I ask my brother in Christ to intercede for me when I can go to Christ, the perfect intercessor? The Catholic answer is: because God commands us to pray for one another. Jesus said “where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matt. 18:20). God, in his providential plan, has chosen to use unworthy sinners like you and me to minister his grace and healing to one another.

God Bless!

 

[EIF5A]

It’s important to know how to answer these things. I told him some things but wanted to see any better ways to answer. On the contrary…it’s extremely important that these challenges be properly answered/

 

[St_Redemption]

Thanks, you guys are the best. I always know I can come here to get most answers.

 

[Jaberwocky]

A non-Catholic friend of mine challenged the Catholic Faith on a point today and I would like to see how you guys answer it. He himself is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that Catholicism places way too much emphasis on Marianism and that it seems that the Church has attempted to replace Christ as the mediator between God and man with Mary as the mediator. Thoughts?

The Blessed Virgin Mary is important because of Christ. She is the speediest path to Christ and the person through whom Christ gave himself to the world. If Christ was out of the equation, then there would be no importance of any of the saints for that matter.

We go to the Blessed Virgin Mary more and more because we recognize she leads us to Christ.

The reason why most try to attempt the direct line to Christ, in my humble opinion, is because they do not realize their own unworthiness or because of some misguided theology. The Protestant theology for one believes in righteousness as not something internal to the person. Usually it is seen as Christ putting his own cloak of righteousness over the person while the person remains corrupt. In this line of thinking, one problem is that there is no hierarchy among saints. There is no concept of a saint who has merited much in their lives in comparison to another.

So Protestants will usually find it difficult to see any difference between a Saint in heaven vs. a saint on earth. They will also find it difficult to see the difference between any other saint in heaven or earth vs. the Queen of Heaven. Because in their eyes, if everyone just wears the righteousness of Christ, then everyone is just same in terms of how much favor they have with God. So bad theology then leads to bad practice and erroneous ideas of Orthodox practices and doctrine.

 

[dshix]

Why should we offer thoughts on something that is complete nonsense, erroneous, and insulting, to boot?

Remember, the reason we give answers on this forum to people who need them is not because we are proud of the way we give the answers, or because we enjoy giving them, or because we are not insulted by the questions, but because the people need answers. We are here to give, not take.

Besides, it’s the OP’s friend who made the insulting question, not the OP.

 

[BLP]

If God put all His trust in Mary to bear and raise His own son, why shouldn’t we trust her just as much?

 

[Nita]

**Originally Posted by St Redemption **

bben15
Your post brought to mind something that happened after a Baptist friend had attended a couple of Masses with me (a funeral and a wedding). She told me she was surprised at the amount of Scripture that was read; also the holiness that seemed to be present. I don’t know what she expected, but considering what many of them have been taught, she was probably expecting a service that worshipped Mary.
My advice: invite your friend to attend Mass with you. Let him see what we actually do; it will probably be more convincing than just words.

 

[Steveabrous]

Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Last time I checked Mary falls under the category of “Man”, so any intercessory prayer she offers us (which ,by the way, intercessory prayer is commanded of us in the same letter that states Jesus is the only mediator) has to go through her son.

Explain that we Catholics believe that when a christian dies, and goes to heaven, they can still pray for other christians.
Ask him if his church offers to pray for it’s members in need. There is no difference between asking a person sitting next to you in church to pray for you and asking a member of the church in heaven to pray for you.

Asking Mary to pray for us no more violates the unique mediation that only Jesus can do then asking the members of a church to pray for you does.

If he says “But the bible says not to contact the dead.” explain to him that Jesus is…" not the God of the dead but of the living" -Mark 12:27

 

[Peebo]

I’m sure many Protestants have heard the terms co-redemptrix and mediatrix refering to our Blessed Mother…I have heard even some Catholics have problems with those titles…if those Catholics don’t understand our Blessed Mothers role…then it’s easy to understand why many Protestants would think we worship Mary.

 

[Quaesitor]

Just look how important Mary was to Jesus. One of the last things he said before giving up his mortal body was to give his mother to his disciple and the other way around. In essence he was giving her to the church.

Just ask his friend if he’s ever asked for help from anyone else. Guess what he’s asked for intercession, just as we ask Mary.

 

[Quaesitor]

Asking Mary to pray for us no more violates the unique mediation that only Jesus can do then asking the members of a church to pray for you does.

This but with one more important part. By asking for Mary or any other Saint to intercede on our behave they are not bypassing Christ and going to God. No they are going to Christ who is the final mediator as everyone has suggested. If we were expecting Mary to bypass Christ then we would be running into problems.

Also let’s say I wanted something from say Cardinal Dolan, I wouldn’t make my request through my Mother, who is Mormon by the way, I would go to Cardinal Dolan’s mother or someone who he’s friendly with. Just makes sense that he would give more weight to my request coming from his mother than mine.

 

[Charles12]

If they think we venerate Mary too highly, how much more must they think we worship Christ.

 

[Razanir]

Try pointing out to him what prayers from the Divine Office look like. From Lauds on the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God:

Father,
source of light in every age,
the virgin conceived and bore your Son
who is called Wonderful God, Prince of Peace.
May her prayer, the gift of a mother’s love,
be your people’s joy through all ages.
May her response, born of a humble heart,
draw your Spirit to rest on your people.
Grant this through Christ our Lord.
Amen.

I feel this is very representative of prayer to the saints. Even when we pray to the saints for stuff, it’s still granted through Christ.

 

[EIF5A]

I’m sure many Protestants have heard the terms co-redemptrix and mediatrix refering to our Blessed Mother…I have heard even some Catholics have problems with those titles…if those Catholics don’t understand our Blessed Mothers role…then it’s easy to understand why many Protestants would think we worship Mary.

I’ve read slightly different interpretations/ideas about what Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Graces mean…It does get confusing.

 

[po18guy]

A non-Catholic friend of mine challenged the Catholic Faith on a point today and I would like to see how you guys answer it. He himself is a non-denominational Christian. He believes that Catholicism places way too much emphasis on Marianism and that it seems that the Church has attempted to replace Christ as the mediator between God and man with Mary as the mediator. Thoughts?

My thoughts are that someone in such a situation should learn the faith and shoot that specious argument down. Catholicism for Dummies.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

I am a convert to Catholicism, having been involved in several different Protestant denominations. In my experience, a lot of Protestantism is centered around the Atonement, whereas Catholicism is centered more on the Incarnation. In an Atonement-centered church, Mary is a shadowy background figure that is loved and respected and is brought up at Christmas (possibly on Mother’s Day, but she has to fight it out with all the other Biblical women who were good mothers). In an Incarnation-centered church, Mary is always in the forefront with the Son of God who took flesh in her womb.

I began to think about the fact that God became flesh. Normally that thought automatically fast-forwarded to “…and died to save us from our sins,” which is obviously very important, but I had never really stopped to consider the first part: God became flesh. The Catholic emphasis on Mary started to make a whole lot of sense. The Incarnation was a far more profound and wonderful event than I had ever realized. Far from “replacing Christ with Mary,” Catholicism elevated the Incarnation of God to the status that it deserved. Our Marian dogmas point, not to Mary, but to Jesus Christ and who He is.

St. Louis de Montfort said that all “true devotion,” to Mary or to any of the saints, always has God as it’s goal. A devotion that was aiming any lower was false and demonic. Mary is like a safe path that we know will lead us into God; the path is not the goal, God is.