The church finally says ABC is ok!! What would you all think of that??

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I would think it is fine and to be honest I would be relieved because right now I accept the Churchs’ teaching and practice it out of obedience, but do not really agree with it.
 
joclucsylv said:
Debora you make me laugh! You and I see it the same. I can’t understand why they can’t see our points!
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Me either. Every point I’ve made is perfectly logical, darn it! Haha.

It was frustrating at first, but I’m at peace with it now.

Good luck to you in finding your answers! 👍
 
joclucsylv said:
Is it safe to say that at some point in the future, the Church could change the teaching on ABC? What would you all do/think at that point???
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If the Church ever changed it’s teaching on ABC, I would be very relieved for those so stressed by the burden placed on them by the current teaching. I’d caution people, just like before, of the health risks. But I personally am not a candidate for birth control due to health reasons, so no matter what they teach about ABCs, it doesn’t affect me like it will (and does) affect others.
 
ringil said:
I would think it is fine and to be honest I would be relieved because right now I accept the Churchs’ teaching and practice it out of obedience, but do not really agree with it.
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I was like that too for a while, but it started hurting my marriage in ways that I don’t even want to get into at this point. I’ve since started using condoms and it’s helped us a lot.

…But if NFP works for you, more power to you. I wish it would have for me. 😦
 
Debora123 said:
Me either. Every point I’ve made is perfectly logical, darn it! Haha.

It was frustrating at first, but I’m at peace with it now.

Good luck to you in finding your answers! 👍
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No anxiety over where your immortal soul may end up?? I dealt with that anxiety for a long time.
 
joclucsylv said:
No anxiety over where your immortal soul may end up?? I dealt with that anxiety for a long time.
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Once I made the decision, no, it did not bother me. I truly believe the Church is in error on this issue - or at least that it is not such a black and white thing. I did not come to this conclusion easily, and I hope people won’t judge me too harshly. It took a lot of praying and discerning, and even some talks with my priest. It’s helped our marriage and it’s helped our love making. My conscience is cleared. :gopray2:
 
joclucsylv said:
No anxiety over where your immortal soul may end up?? I dealt with that anxiety for a long time.
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Such concern would be based in reality. More so than if one drank poison and were concerned one could physically die…for it far worse. Not only as to where one may end up…but concerning the state of one already in this earthly existence.
 
Debora123 said:
Once I made the decision, no, it did not bother me. I truly believe the Church is in error on this issue - or at least that it is not such a black and white thing. I did not come to this conclusion easily, and I hope people won’t judge me too harshly. It took a lot of praying and discerning, and even some talks with my priest. It’s helped our marriage and it’s helped our love making. My conscience is cleared. :gopray2:
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I know your mind is already made up so I am saying this for the sake of anyone who is viewing this thread looking for answers.

Even if the Church were to be wrong on something, it is still seriously sinful to disobey her. The only exception would be if the Church somehow was telling you to sin. And that’s obviously not the case here. 😦
 
A very Good article from a few years ago from Msgr Cormac Burke who was a Judge on the Roman Rota (so he knows lots about marriage…even wrote a book or two on Marriage among other things…some published in the past by Ignatius and Scepter)

cormacburke.or.ke/node/282

He now serves as a Priest in Africa
 
Jennifer_J said:
Failure rate is not the issue either. Open to life has nothing to do with statistics. .
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Are you sure about that? The church has approved the use of a perforated condom to collect a sperm sample. Even a perforated condom reduces the likelihood of pregnancy since much of the sperm is blocked. So it seems that the perforations reduce the effectiveness of the condum just enough to make it moral to use. So how big do the perforations need to be? Can one tiny token pin hole satisfy the requirement of being “open” to procreation?
 
I will say this once. The Church cannot change it’s teaching on Artificial Birth Control, for one main reason only:

It is NOT the Church’s teaching. It’s God’s teaching, as evidence both in Scripture and through the** Holy Spirit’s guidance** of Christ’s Church.

Really, a bunch of white haired guys 1500 years ago did not sit around a table saying,* what can we do to make life miserable for a few million people in the world 1500 years from now. I know, we’ll start saying that it’s not okay to wrap things around your penis so you don’t get your wife/girlfriend/prostitute/rape victim pregnant.*

That’s like saying Sir Isaac Newton invented gravity. And since I want to fly, just my body, to the beach every summer, I’m going to hope that physics professors everywhere decide to change the teachings of gravity.

Okay, that’s a really silly example, but you get the point.

The question you have to ask yourself has nothing to do with the Church; it’s: *** Is God going to change His teaching on ABC?
No offense, but seeing as how God transcends time so morality must be constant, I’m going to go with - No.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Are you sure about that? The church has approved the use of a perforated condom to collect a sperm sample. Even a perforated condom reduces the likelihood of pregnancy since much of the sperm is blocked. So it seems that the perforations reduce the effectiveness of the condum just enough to make it moral to use. So how big do the perforations need to be? Can one tiny token pin hole satisfy the requirement of being “open” to procreation?
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I am not sure “the Church has approved such”…but often such does not “get approval” on a magisterial level. But it is considered in those in orthodox moral theology circles as licit.

During the normal marital act the a “semi-permable” sheath us used to collect some while leaving the act open to life. And of course It is only for such sperm testing.

A persons attempt to “use such” to reduce the possibility of conception would involve a contraceptive intent. It would be a contraceptive act and sinful.
 
Debora123 said:
Once I made the decision, no, it did not bother me. I truly believe the Church is in error on this issue - or at least that it is not such a black and white thing. I did not come to this conclusion easily, and I hope people won’t judge me too harshly. It took a lot of praying and discerning, and even some talks with my priest. It’s helped our marriage and it’s helped our love making. My conscience is cleared. :gopray2:
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I would not worry about how anyone on this board judges you; your concern should be with how God will judge you at the end of your life. You are also leading others astray and you will be accountable to a degree for their souls, as well. There are many who will want to believe what you say not because it’s right or truth but because it’s easier.

If you disagree with the church, or don’t understand something, but give assent to the teaching that is heroic. But you have decided to dissent with the church and seem to have the need to defend your lack of understanding of the truth.

There are a lot of statements in your posts that is self-referential and you tend toward emotionalism. I think that is why you haven’t been able to understand the churches teaching on this. You can’t see it if it isn’t pertaining to you or what you what or what you think you know.

NFP didn’t cause the problems in your marriage but it did highlight them whether you realise it yet or not.
 
Corki said:
I know your mind is already made up so I am saying this for the sake of anyone who is viewing this thread looking for answers.

Even if the Church were to be wrong on something, it is still seriously sinful to disobey her. The only exception would be if the Church somehow was telling you to sin. And that’s obviously not the case here. 😦
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Ok I am confused here if the Church happened to be wrong on a particular subject how would it still be sinful to disobey “rules laws whatever you wanna call them” that are based off a wrong teaching?
 
Some things a Catholic is to give the obedience of Faith…to some others one is to give religious submission of mind and will…

We are to follow the teachings of the Church

But an individual bishop say could error (but hopefully such would not happen)

If say some Bishop in his diocese starts telling you that you are to go and murder the Baptists in town…well that would be an example where one is to disobey even a Bishop…for that would be to commit a mortal sin objectively.

Likewise if ones Bishop tells one …you should use contraception. One would not do so…for the same reason.
 
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