The church finally says ABC is ok!! What would you all think of that??

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Debora123 said:
Likewise, you folks see using a condom as a rejection.

I’m only using the same mind frame as the rest of you.

I don’t see anything negative with NFP, but I don’t see anything negative with condoms either.
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By “us folks” you mean The Catholic Church, then yes we do see condoms as a rejection.

If you continue to believe there is nothing wrong with condoms, then you must reconcile with yourself that that is your own opinion, not the Church’s and no matter how much you refer to being a part of a majority, the Church is not going to change. Know that you are the one rejecting the teaching, not that by your rejection its some kind of protest that the Church is going to heed and reverse its decision on ABC. You have created a 'barrier" as you seem to like that term, between you and your faith and potentially even between you and your spouse. You don’t see it that way, but ABC can be a barrier in a relationship beyond just the act of preventing a pregnancy.

You have referred to the word “stupid” several times in your posts. I haven’t seen anyone on this thread call you that for your opinions. It seems like you are either daring for someone to call you “stupid” or baiting them to say it. Just an observation. I think most people in this thread have been quite charitable, I hope you see it that way.
 
Debora123 said:
I beg to differ.

For one, they are both used to avoid pregnancy.
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They differ as night and day.

In fact as death and life.

One kills one spiritually the other enhances one spiritually when lived correctly.
 
PatriceA said:
By “us folks” you mean The Catholic Church, then yes we do see condoms as a rejection.

If you continue to believe there is nothing wrong with condoms, then you must reconcile with yourself that that is your own opinion, not the Church’s and no matter how much you refer to being a part of a majority, the Church is not going to change. Know that you are the one rejecting the teaching, not that by your rejection its some kind of protest that the Church is going to heed and reverse its decision on ABC. You have created a 'barrier" as you seem to like that term, between you and your faith and potentially even between you and your spouse. You don’t see it that way, but ABC can be a barrier in a relationship beyond just the act of preventing a pregnancy.
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I have reconciled with that. As stated on an earlier post. 🙂

There is absolutely no real “barrier” between my husband and I. I am willing to bet our marriage and love life is greater than that of the vast, vast majority. He is an amazing man and our connection is unbreakable. ❤️
You have referred to the word “stupid” several times in your posts. I haven’t seen anyone on this thread call you that for your opinions. It seems like you are either daring for someone to call you “stupid” or baiting them to say it. Just an observation. I think most people in this thread have been quite charitable, I hope you see it that way.
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Yes, they have been very charitable. Especially comparatively. Some people here on CAF can get quite nasty, and we all know that.

As for “stupid,” you are incorrect. I was neither daring someone to call me that, nor was I baiting them to say it. You are analyzing it waaayyy too much. No harm done though. 👍
 
As an early Christian document states…there are two way…of *life *and of death

and great is the difference between them.
 
PatriceA said:
Not true. NFP has been used by many couples to actually help their families grow. Can’t say that about ABC.
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Yes, but it is also used to avoid pregnancy (as a condom is used to avoid pregnancy), and is probably used that way more often than it is used to conceive.
 
Bookcat said:
They differ as night and day.

In fact as death and life.

One kills one spiritually the other enhances one spiritually when lived correctly.
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Yes, that is one difference.

One similarity, however, is that they are both used to avoid pregnancy.
 
I responded to this question in the other thread but I’ll repeat it here.
I’m not 1ke but are you asking what will someone think or what would someone do?
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If somehow the Church flipped on her position on Contraception (say an anti-pope had the Chair of Peter), it would mean that all the Church has taught about marriage would be optional. The Church can’t say that contraception is “ok” without also permitting homosexual unions, polygamy, incest (consensual), artificial insemination, cloning and abortion because those teachings are all tied together into a whole teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage.
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If such a thing happened, I would be looking for the remnant.
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Debora123 said:
Yes, that is one difference.

One similarity, however, is that they are both used to avoid pregnancy.
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Well, you seem to just want to see NFP for one purpose and one purpose only. Several people on this thread have been trying to tell you NFP is much, more than just placing a “barrier” between a married couple. You are stubbornly refusing to think that there might be much, much more that NFP can provide to a couple than just another form of birth control or an unwanted pregnancy if NFP is not fully understood or not fully applied by the couple. God works through NFP in ways that ABC could never provide or being able to say you are part of the majority that believes condoms are ok.
 
Debora123 said:
Yes, that is one difference.

One similarity, however, is that they are both used to avoid pregnancy.
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The avoidance of pregnancy is the not really the issue. The Church teaches that it is licit to avoid conception for JUST/GRAVE/SERIOUS reason, but that there are only 2 licit means to do this: total abstinence or periodic abstinence. NFP cannot create a barrier because there is no rules for when couples must have sex nor that they have to be naturally fertile when they do have sex. Contraception is an action: taking a pill, inserting chemicals, putting on a physical barrier, etc. However, NFP doesn’t create any kind of barrier, it is simply information. The couple is always free to either choose to have sex or not…there is no set obligation for relations and this isn’t changed by their knowledge of the fertility cycle.
 
PatriceA said:
Well, you seem to just want to see NFP for one purpose and one purpose only. Several people on this thread have been trying to tell you NFP is much, more than just placing a “barrier” between a married couple. You are stubbornly refusing to think that there might be much, much more that NFP can provide to a couple than just another form of birth control or an unwanted pregnancy if NFP is not fully understood or not fully applied by the couple. God works through NFP in ways that ABC could never provide or being able to say you are part of the majority that believes condoms are ok.
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I understand NFP and it’s 2 purposes. I’ve used it.

I am referring to NFP in the birth control aspect of it here because this thread is about contraception.
 
Jennifer_J said:
The avoidance of pregnancy is the not really the issue. The Church teaches that it is licit to avoid conception for JUST/GRAVE/SERIOUS reason, but that there are only 2 licit means to do this: total abstinence or periodic abstinence. NFP cannot create a barrier because there is no rules for when couples must have sex nor that they have to be naturally fertile when they do have sex. Contraception is an action: taking a pill, inserting chemicals, putting on a physical barrier, etc. However, NFP doesn’t create any kind of barrier, it is simply information. The couple is always free to either choose to have sex or not…there is no set obligation for relations and this isn’t changed by their knowledge of the fertility cycle.
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There is a lot of action involved in making darn sure what your fertile days are. (Especially when a couple is trying to have sex without conceiving a child). More so than there is in buying a condom and putting it on.
 
Debora123 said:
Sure it does.

“No honey, I will not make love to you and give myself to you tonight. You’re fertile.”

OR

“No honey, I will not make love to you and give myself to you tonight. I’m fertile.”
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Well, that’s really not how it works, one asking the other the gate keeper.

Both husband and wife need to participate in the decision…there is no, “I’m not going too give myself to you because I’m fertile.” Abstinance is already difficult, the other spouse playing tempter is just mean.

We have very valid reasons to not get pregnant. I don’t approach, DH does not approach when I’m fertile.

I actually would be hurt if he did, I have a very high risk of not being able to carry a baby to term. We wouldn’t risk that heartbreak of losing a baby, just to satisfy a temporary urge.

But with the condom, It’s, “I want you now, but you better not touch me unless you’ve been to the drugstore.”
 
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