The church isnt for toddlers....?

[AnolisSagrei]

I don’t judge anyone for using the cry rooms, but I do find myself incredibly irritated by the attitude of those who don’t want little children present at Mass with everyone else. Guess what- they are part of the Church Militant too. They are pure little souls that Christ gave His life for, and it was He would said to let the little children come to Him, and unless we become like them, we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven. We all fussed more or less at that age. The dear Christ Child must have cooed and cried at times.

I can think of dozens of things that are far more distracting…and I have trouble with distractions, but babies and toddlers are not one of them. Even if they are screaming. No need to make an already busy, flustered, exhausted mother feeling even more stress.

 

[Melissa]

Although I am now at the season in my life when caring for toddlers is not part of it (my youngest are now teenagers), I would find a cry room less welcoming to me as a parent, rather than more welcoming. Sitting up front can help.

One technique that worked for me, too, was to whisper “find Jesus” with a toddler (the parish we attended when the youngest were babies–my twins are now 13, their next older brother just turned 16, it’s 34 months between middle and youngest–there were the Stations, stained glass featuring the Mysteries of the Rosary, and several other stained glass windows featuring Jesus as Good Shepherd, Christ the King, and so on, and a picture of the Divine Mercy image–all told, if you counted them all, you’d find a good 60+ images of Jesus in various forms (glass, statues, pictures).

My current parish isn’t quite so image-rich, but we still don’t have a cry room (and this is a new building–we were bursting out the seams of the old church building–every Sunday was SRO, which isn’t exactly welcoming to people visiting/new to the area. Our new building holds everyone and even on days like Christmas and Easter, we’re able to add some extra chairs and still seat everyone). We do have three rocking chairs in the gathering area outside the church proper, and I suppose if someone had a really disconsolate child, they could go out there, but we prefer our smallest members in with the rest of the community.

 

[sdeco]

No need to make an already busy, flustered, exhausted mother feeling even more stress.

Exactly - which is why I want a cry room!! It is much more stressful to bring small children in mass when there is no cry room to take them to. No one has to use the cry room. I just get really irritated when people want to take them away. It makes me wonder why they want to make my life more difficult.

 

[taborekle]

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but as the father of a now strapping 17 year old, I love to sit next to a small child (or children) and watch them. It does keep me from meditating on the mass, but it brings back sweet memories of my own child at that age.

Our responsibility as Christians is to be tollerant. We should accept small child disruptions as our penance, and see it as the future congragation of our church.

Now disruptive adults, that’s another story all together.

 

[CountrySinger]

Exactly - which is why I want a cry room!! It is much more stressful to bring small children in mass when there is no cry room to take them to. No one has to use the cry room. I just get really irritated when people want to take them away. It makes me wonder why they want to make my life more difficult.

I’m expecting our first baby in August, and I’m so happy our parish has a cry room! So the whole church doesn’t have to see me try to calm a baby down. Plus, I’m planning on breastfeeding, and with being blessed in that department, I will want the relative privacy. If it didn’t have a cry room, I wouldn’t be very uncomfortable. And Mass is already difficult enough for me for emotional reasons.

 

[Luvz2travel]

My husband and I have 5 children. Their ages are 10, 7, 29 months, 15months, and 2months. So, as many of you parents may know, it is very difficult keeping the younger children quiet for 5 minutes, let alone, an entire hour to sit through mass. We don’t want our children disrupting the mass, so we always find our way to the “cry room”.
We go to a parish that has a c.r. in the back of the church. It is perfect for us because we can still see everything that’s going on in the church., they just can’t hear our children.
Occasionally, we like to try mass at a different church and I actually get a little offended because I arrive, only to find out, they have no c.r. As Catholics, we tend to have a lot of kids (as a result of not using b.c. and from failing at NFP,lol)) and I am sure the church recognizes this. So I think it’s only fair for me to say… All (or most) parishes should have a cry room.
It is my responsibility to bring my children to mass. But, when I arrive and there is no place for my children to sit (without interrupting), it makes me want to leave. I feel very unwelcomed and I end up walking out early.
And trust me, I have tried sitting in the main pews with all the adults and I get dirty looks, I get eyes rolled at me, people start whispering about my family and it simply makes me angry because this could’ve all been avoided if there was a cry room…

So, let me know how you all feel about this… maybe if there’s alot of ppl that feel like my husband and I, we could do something about it…???
I just like to explore other parishes every once in a while and about 95% of the time, I end up walking in to a church wo c.r.

If they are too young to understand it what is the point of bringing them would be my question. Maybe wait till they are a little older and have a babysitter take charge when you go to Mass. Just say. I was at mass and this lady brought a bag full of toys for her toddler and just jumped them in the aisle and litterally told him to have at it. Others will bring in a book and or loud toy for their kids to run up and down the pews with. I’m not antikid but do think parents could use some common sense. Maybe I’ve seen to many bad parents at mass with no manners. Just saying.

 

[Havard]

If they are too young to understand it what is the point of bringing them would be my question. Maybe wait till they are a little older and have a babysitter take charge when you go to Mass. Just say. I was at mass and this lady brought a bag full of toys for her toddler and just jumped them in the aisle and litterally told him to have at it. Others will bring in a book and or loud toy for their kids to run up and down the pews with. I’m not antikid but do think parents could use some common sense. Maybe I’ve seen to many bad parents at mass with no manners. Just saying.

Toys in the aisle is beyond ridiculous. All small children are fidgety, but sitting relatively still should be encouraged. There’s a family that often sits near me, and their cute little toddler was one of the most boisterous I’ve seen in years, but the parents were unrelenting in calming him down and attempting to focus his attention, so it’s no surprise that he has been getting better and better.

 

[EasterJoy]

If they are too young to understand it what is the point of bringing them would be my question. Maybe wait till they are a little older and have a babysitter take charge when you go to Mass. Just say. I was at mass and this lady brought a bag full of toys for her toddler and just jumped them in the aisle and litterally told him to have at it. Others will bring in a book and or loud toy for their kids to run up and down the pews with. I’m not antikid but do think parents could use some common sense. Maybe I’ve seen to many bad parents at mass with no manners. Just saying.

None of us are “old enough to understand it.” As one priest pointed out, Jesus did not say to Peter, “Peter, thank goodness someone around here is clever enough to get this!” Nobody is advanced enough to get it. Jesus said, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.” And again he said, "“Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.” (Luke 18:16-17)

It is the responsibility of the parent, however, to decide whether or not the child has the temperament to participate without being a total disruption and without the sorts of boundary conditions that will make the child resent church altogether. Shaking a bag of toys out in church is not teaching a child where the child is or what is going on. around here. It is teaching her to be oblivious. A church is not a playground, and it misleads the child to teach her that it is.

This is why a small child is not obliged to attend Sunday Mass–that is, because it is possible for it to be in the child’s best interest not to take her to Mass. The cry room is a place for a parent to coax an upset child back down to earth without actually leaving Mass, a sort of a middle ground. These are options for the parent. Teaching children to treat their parish church like a gym is not an acceptable option.

BTW, I’d also point out that the old churches without cry rooms did not usually have Sunday Masses that went on for 70 or 80 or even 90 minutes. (When I was growing up, in a parish full of children, it was under 40.)

 

[EasterJoy]

Toys in the aisle is beyond ridiculous. All small children are fidgety, but sitting relatively still should be encouraged. There’s a family that often sits near me, and their cute little toddler was one of the most boisterous I’ve seen in years, but the parents were unrelenting in calming him down and attempting to focus his attention, so it’s no surprise that he has been getting better and better.

He’ll be an altar server before you know it. Not that a shy child cannot make an excellent server, but a lot of the active toddlers grow up to make good ones.

 

[jlc2k2]

If they are too young to understand it what is the point of bringing them would be my question.

They are absorbing and learning more than you may realize - even before they are old enough to speak clearly. One of my two year olds knows the words to most of the songs that we sing week in and week out - including the Gloria. She sings it every week now. She was also singing “Hosanna in the highest” long after that particular part of the service had concluded yesterday (thankfully not at the top of her lungs - miracles do happen ). She even sang it on the way home. My 4 year old only sings sometimes but almost always participates in the Our Father. All 3 of my children participate in the Sign of Peace.

ETA - Oh and my oldest has also learned how to go up to the priest and put her hands out for communion - as I learned at my BIL’s wedding. Thanfully, the priest simply chuckled and said that her time would come soon.

 

[bitterhope]

Not everyone has the option of separate Mass times for mom and dad. Most young parents I know would not have the money to hire a sitter every single Sunday in order to not bring the kids. It’s easy for people to suggest just leave them at home since they don’t understand, but it’s not possible for most parents I know.

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“BTW, I’d also point out that the old churches without cry rooms did not usually have Sunday Masses that went on for 70 or 80 or even 90 minutes. (When I was growing up, in a parish full of children, it was under 40.)”

That is a very good point. Speed used to be highly valued in a Mass–I’ve heard of even faster ones.

It sounds like there are lots of good ideas and options: cry room, nursery, the rocking chairs (brilliant!), a large narthex, piping the Mass outside for parents. I also like a church (like the National Shrine in DC) that has lots of side chapels and favorable acoustics that seem to swallow kid noise right up.

While I’m thinking of it, folding chairs and movable chairs generally can be TERRIBLE with small children–I’ve known one of my kids to fidget a folding chair a yard away from her original starting position over the course of a single Mass. A pew is much more suitable for small children.

We love our local college chaplaincy, but there’s no cry room, and we’ve pretty much reached the end of the road with our 18-month-old, who either scampers back and forth in the very large narthex or needs to be carried around on our shoulders to keep her quiet. We’re thinking of transitioning over to the Catholic church in town that has a nursery, as long-term, I don’t think that all this running back and forth is very edifying. We’ve tried the nursery a couple times, and baby cried the whole time, but every time we do another narthex marathon, I come out of Mass saying, next week we’re going to St. So-and-So’s and Baby is going to the nursery. Even if we don’t actually make it to St. So-and-So’s very often, it’s nice to know that somewhere out there, there’s a staffed nursery!

With regard to difficult old ladies at Mass–we all have a very good chance of turning into one of those ourselves, given some arthritis, a hearing aid that mostly picks up toddler rustling, and some bad knees.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy said:

“BTW, I’d also point out that the old churches without cry rooms did not usually have Sunday Masses that went on for 70 or 80 or even 90 minutes. (When I was growing up, in a parish full of children, it was under 40.)”

That is a very good point. Speed used to be highly valued in a Mass–I’ve heard of even faster ones.

It sounds like there are lots of good ideas and options: cry room, nursery, the rocking chairs (brilliant!), a large narthex, piping the Mass outside for parents. I also like a church (like the National Shrine in DC) that has lots of side chapels and favorable acoustics that seem to swallow kid noise right up.

While I’m thinking of it, folding chairs and movable chairs generally can be TERRIBLE with small children–I’ve known one of my kids to fidget a folding chair a yard away from her original starting position over the course of a single Mass. A pew is much more suitable for small children.

We love our local college chaplaincy, but there’s no cry room, and we’ve pretty much reached the end of the road with our 18-month-old, who either scampers back and forth in the very large narthex or needs to be carried around on our shoulders to keep her quiet. We’re thinking of transitioning over to the Catholic church in town that has a nursery, as long-term, I don’t think that all this running back and forth is very edifying. We’ve tried the nursery a couple times, and baby cried the whole time, but every time we do another narthex marathon, I come out of Mass saying, next week we’re going to St. So-and-So’s and Baby is going to the nursery. Even if we don’t actually make it to St. So-and-So’s very often, it’s nice to know that somewhere out there, there’s a staffed nursery!

With regard to difficult old ladies at Mass–we all have a very good chance of turning into one of those ourselves, given some arthritis, a hearing aid that mostly picks up toddler rustling, and some bad knees.

I’d say that your luck with introducing table behavior at home is a good indication of whether your child has a temperament that can withstand participation at a Mass. If church is the only place where it is suddenly expected that your child will be quiet and sit still, then church won’t become the one place your child is quiet. It is going to become the one place your child truly hates to endure!

Some children are born with a capacity to be *relatively *quiet and more-or-less still, some children learn these, if they are given enough opportunities to practice, and some children don’t have the capacity to do it quite yet no matter who their trainer tries to train them. Use activities outside of Mass to give your child the skills he or she will need at Mass and to get some idea what you can reasonably expect from your child. Then you’ll know what time of day and what sort of methods might allow your child not just to endure Mass, but to succeed there.

 

[bitterhope]

One of the problems I have with our youngest (15 months old) is she feels completely safe and at home at our Church. She knows both priests well, and most of the people we see there as well. Her older siblings are very involved at the church and we are there several times a week–including going to Adoration two nights a week, just mom and baby time (it is late night so the church is empty except for us, and sometimes her siblings or dad). Our church is her second home. She knows all the statues, paintings, stain glass windows. She doesn’t talk yet, but she blows kisses to Jesus. She is amazed with the Stations of the Cross and during Lent she watched Father lead them. She know walks from Station to Station and genuflects at each one, blowing a kiss to Jesus as she goes. She knows the Monstrance is in the side chapel (not during Mass but she doesn’t realize this) and she “kneels” in front of the Tabernacle before making her way to the chapel to kneel and blow kisses to Jesus in the Monstrance. All of this is super and sweet and I enjoy it immensely, but it is not appropriate during the Mass. We can hold her for a little bit but it turns into a wrestling match after the first few minutes. Everywhere else super shy. She doesn’t climb out of the cart at the store and she sits at the table at restaurants. It is only at her second home that she feels like it is safe to “talk” and smile at people besides family, and she is secure enough to get close to other people without freaking out. In the cry room she can blow kisses to the pictures and statues in there (yes, this cry room has beautiful art work) and I’m not having to wrestle her into the pew while pregnant and the rest of the people can concentrate. We have gone to Mass at a few other parishes in recent months and she does great at each one because she is her normally shy self and will stand being held the entire Mass. We can’t do that in a regular basis though because it is much to far to do often. We are 35 mins from our church, 45 mins to the next two, and any other is more than an hour away from our house. I’m at my wits end with her, but it feels wrong to punish her for loving Jesus so much. Nothing she does is bad, it’s just she can’t separate between Mass, Stations of the Cross, Crowning Mary, Adoration, or anything else. I think it is so much better to let her worship God the way she understands it to be done than it would be to turn her against Church. One day she will understand. All 7 of my older kids get it now, and I’m pretty sure our next one is going to go through this too. I’m just hoping wherever we end up next there will be a cry room too because we are moving right after this baby is born.

 

[Havard]

I’m expecting our first baby in August, and I’m so happy our parish has a cry room! So the whole church doesn’t have to see me try to calm a baby down. Plus, I’m planning on breastfeeding, and with being blessed in that department, I will want the relative privacy. If it didn’t have a cry room, I wouldn’t be very uncomfortable. And Mass is already difficult enough for me for emotional reasons.

Congrats!!! It’s been a long time, I’m glad to hear you and your family are doing well! :hug3:

 

[vallancec]

It has been very interesting reading everyone’s post on this. I’ve never taken my kids to the cry room and have only been in one church that has one. My two cents on this is we are all part of a parish family and we are all in this together. If there are other families in your parish sit close to them.
If people roll their eyes or say something to you shrug it off and praise God for your children. Young kids are loud and wiggly and love to get into things. They have been that way forever. Children need to know that they are part of the parish family and how to behave in church. Take short walks, go over rules before, make a church bag (cheerios) and go enjoy mass as a family.

May God bless you all

 

[chemaeslay]

and have a babysitter

your funny. …ha ha ha…babysitter…in my dreams, My husband and I havent gone on a date in months cause we dont have a babysitter.

 

[chemaeslay]

I’d say that your luck with introducing table behavior at home is a good indication of whether your child has a temperament that can withstand participation at a Mass. If church is the only place where it is suddenly expected that your child will be quiet and sit still, then church won’t become the one place your child is quiet. It is going to become the one place your child truly hates to endure!

Some children are born with a capacity to be *relatively *quiet and more-or-less still, some children learn these, if they are given enough opportunities to practice, and some children don’t have the capacity to do it quite yet no matter who their trainer tries to train them. Use activities outside of Mass to give your child the skills he or she will need at Mass and to get some idea what you can reasonably expect from your child. Then you’ll know what time of day and what sort of methods might allow your child not just to endure Mass, but to succeed there.

Well said, and agreeable. But getting there is the challenge, by the time they are “trained” they are ready to enter CCD or instruction. Bottom line is with more than two children under age 3 a cry room is in order.

 

[chemaeslay]

None of us are “old enough to understand it.” As one priest pointed out, Jesus did not say to Peter, “Peter, thank goodness someone around here is clever enough to get this!” Nobody is advanced enough to get it. Jesus said, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.” And again he said, "“Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.” (Luke 18:16-17)

It is the responsibility of the parent, however, to decide whether or not the child has the temperament to participate without being a total disruption and without the sorts of boundary conditions that will make the child resent church altogether. Shaking a bag of toys out in church is not teaching a child where the child is or what is going on. around here. It is teaching her to be oblivious. A church is not a playground, and it misleads the child to teach her that it is.

This is why a small child is not obliged to attend Sunday Mass–that is, because it is possible for it to be in the child’s best interest not to take her to Mass. The cry room is a place for a parent to coax an upset child back down to earth without actually leaving Mass, a sort of a middle ground. These are options for the parent. Teaching children to treat their parish church like a gym is not an acceptable option.

BTW, I’d also point out that the old churches without cry rooms did not usually have Sunday Masses that went on for 70 or 80 or even 90 minutes. (When I was growing up, in a parish full of children, it was under 40.)

I like that, And to reply that Scripture , "Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." Oh Lord The children will come, we will just sit here in the back right there in that little glass room.

I would also like to add that being in the cry room is a place to teach them as they approach the age to be able to go in the main area as a place they have to earn, a place they can learn to be excited to go. They will have to prove to us that they are going to be good. And children always like things they cant have so they will want to do good by you. Yes do train at home too, but mass is always expressed to be reverent and holy and the kids pick up on it from us.
:tiphat:

 

[chemaeslay]

Nice.

I love it when posters see that some of us only have one or two children and automatically assume we are on the pill or something else.

Thats the second time on this forum over the past 2 days.

Some people are blessed with cycles that make NFP work for them. I happen to be one of them. I realize I’m blessed that NFP actually works for me when I’m not nursing. When I am, my husband and I have to abstain for a vast majority of the month.

But, I love that since NFP does work for me, I get raked over the coals because I have too few children.

Some of us disagree with you about the cry rooms.
Why not keep the snakiness to yourselves?

God Bless you for having good cycles and sticking to it.!!! I just see a sexualized world and hear on the news 89% Catholics contracept… I just a little frustrated and maybe being uncharitable and grumpy because I am one of maybe 2 family’s at our parish with 4 or more children. my apologies me----->:whacky: sometimes