The Church teaches that women cannot be priests because of the example set by Jesus in selecting the apostles. So why are women allowed communion?

[guanophore]

He gave his body and blood only to men.

There is no reason to believe that the women who were present were not included in the Eucharist.

Yes but he was talking to a men-only gathering.

What makes you think that no women were present?
post:6:

And I think the Catholic view is that Mary did not need to be saved, as there was never anything to save her from.

This is not accurate. Mary herself calls God her Savior.

Realistically, if priests keep declining, God will change hearts of church to change rule.

If priests keep declining what? It is not a church “rule” that only men can be ordained to be priests. This is not a discipline that can be changed.

I don’t think so. The presence of Mary Magdalen does not indicate a female priest.

Of course not, but there is no reason to believe that women were not present at the last supper, or that they were excluded from communion.

So she had nothing from which to be saved from the point of her existence.

One could only take this position if one was holding to a deficient understanding of original sin.

Well I’m just going on what it says, just like Catholics do when saying that Jesus chose only male apostles. The Gospels list only men, but there could have been women too, that the Gospel writers did not write about.

In Rom 16:7 Paul says, “Greet Andronicus and Junia, my compatriots and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to [or prominent among] the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.”

Only men were present at the Last Supper.

Why would you assume this?

Are there no Jewish women?

Luke 8
Women Who Accompanied Jesus
8 Some time later Jesus traveled through towns and villages, preaching the Good News about the Kingdom of God. The twelve disciples went with him, 2 and so did some women who had been healed of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (who was called Magdalene), from whom seven demons had been driven out; 3 Joanna, whose husband Chuza was an officer in Herod’s court; and Susanna, and many other women who used their own resources to help Jesus and his disciples.

Why would anyone assume that the disciples knew how to roast a Passover Lamb?

Commanded within His own Holy Priestly Laws are to be obeyed, followed within The Priestly Laws of Leviticus, to be able to do so?

Leviticus is full of His Holy Priestly Laws to be obeyed and what will or not be acceptable into His hands, right?

No. The Levitical laws regarding the priesthood do not apply to Christians. All Catholic priests are taken up into the priesthood of Christ, who is a priest after the order of Melchizedech.

 

[Fauken]

Fauken:

And I think the Catholic view is that Mary did not need to be saved, as there was never anything to save her from.

This is not accurate. Mary herself calls God her Savior.

I think you accidentally attributed that quote to me!

 

[Zaccheus]

Zaccheus:

Only men were present at the Last Supper.

Why would you assume this?

I was going from the scripture account. It is possible I was mistaken.

 

[rose321]

What’s the catholic response to this: if a man can be the bride (as you explained), why can’t women take the place of the groom during mass?

Respectfully, not answering for our Church, but only giving ones personal opinion only, right or wrong, stand to be corrected!

How much have you loved Me, been faithful to Me?
One who dearly Loves their Spouse are Faithful to them and Desire to do all that Pleases them? 1st Commandment Love Me with your whole Heart, Soul and Mind, seems to flow does it not with the Bridegroom, we are His Bride>>like a marriage covenant?

Jesus using the word>> Bridegroom>>we are His Bride>>> maybe a>>Metaphor?>>> Jesus is using, what we only know, being finite, Physcial ( matter?) to give Spiritual Knowledge and Understanding to what is >>Infinite, Spiritual?

Just pondering is all. Then the 2 shall become, One>>> how?
Within our>>> Hearts, Souls and Minds, maybe?,
But let not the lustful desires of the flesh, break our marriage vows to Him, our Beloved Spouse?

Not about physcial gender, is it with Jesus, with His Teaching that He is our Bridegroom and we >>men/woman are His Bride?

All about our Spiritual Being, which we cannot see?
Remaining Faithful to HIM within>Our Hearts, Souls and Minds ( thoughts?) Our Heavenly Father is He not a Eternal, Infinite, Spiritual Living Being, is He not?

Jesus teaches us to >Test All Spirits, does he not? All>>there are many, how many?

Jesus calls>>Himself our Bridegroom ( he was not speaking, continually teaching, preaching>> about our physical ( finite matter, our flesh or about His Flesh while He walked on earth was He?

Jesus walked in the Flesh, but He lived fully in the Spirit?

But was Jesus teaching us >>all about our Spiritual Being ( our Hearts, Souls and Minds ( thoughts) within us all, was he not? Throughout the whole Bible>>I will put my Spirit>>many times to many to list even.
Ezekiel 36:27, Romans 8:2-9, Hebrew 8:10, Luke 1:15, then prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-35

Seems to>>>flow with the 1st Commandment>>Love Me with your whole Heart, Soul and Mind>>>>none of theses 3 can we hold >>>>>>in our hands to gaze upon can we?

Just pondering on, then it >reminded me of this>>>

“Only when we become like a little child, can we become Spiritual Mature” unquote>>>>>>>>>>> Little child of Jesus, St Therese>>> my favorite St Therese

" there is no such thing as death, death is only the agony we all go through" unquote>> Little child of Jesus, St Therese

physical agony in the flesh. Flesh vs Spirit

1 Corinthians 15:50 Question, can one answer this question?>> then what then enter’s the Kingdom?

Peace

 

[MonteRCMS]

Keep in mind that we are depending on one or more English translations.

Jesus did not speak English.

And the evangelists did not write in English.

BECAUSE English would not be invented yet … for another ONE THOUSAND years … more or less.

So … please keep in mind that all our interpretations and imageries are based on translations.

 

[Gorgias]

Zaccheus:

Only men were present at the Last Supper.

guanophore:

Why would you assume this?

I was going from the scripture account. It is possible I was mistaken.

Only men are mentioned in the Last Supper narrative.

It’s not unreasonable to suggest that women were present.

However, from the accounts, we understand that Jesus was talking to the apostles, not everyone who might’ve been present.

(Think of it this way: when Oprah did her “everyone gets a car! you get a car! you get a car! you get a car!” stunt… do you think her cameramen got cars? Or was it just the members of her audience? (Who, as it turns out, had been hand-selected to be in the audience and receive a car )

So, yeah… Oprah was talking to her guests, and not just to anyone who happened to be there and hear her talking. To say that anyone who heard Jesus talk at the Last Supper is automatically a priest is just silly… )

 

[rose321]

Commanded within His own Holy Priestly Laws are to be obeyed, followed within The Priestly Laws of Leviticus, to be able to do so?

Respectfully opinion only, what one meant sorry for poor communicating> It was >2 Women>>Jesus being God, who choose>> A Woman to prepare and annointed>>>Jesus feet with Oil >>>>>which is a >>>>Higher Anointing >>>>then anointing the Head? It was a Woman who annointed Jesus (God) preparing him to enter Jerusalem on the Passover, to >>>>>>>>>>>>become The King of Kings and High Priest?

It was also the Women, who came with>>>>>>>>>Burial Anointing Oils to prepare again Jesus, >>>>>>Body for >>>>His Sacred Burial at the tomb, was it not? Which in Jesus time>>> was only done by a Priest? Was it not in the Leviticus Priestly Laws?

Opinion, Respectfully toward >>And for any Woman in Jesus time>>>> to draw so>>>>>>>>>> intimately and personally close to another man >>>>>>>>>other then her husband in Jesus time >>>>>>>>>>>was a huge no no, was it not?

Jesus makes it very clear>>>> what or what he will not accept into His hands>>and in whom HE >>chooses>>>>being God Himself>>>> on earth, was He not?

Those Women in Jesus time cannot be any>>>>>>>>>>>>> closer to God then theses>>>>>>>>>>> Woman who drew so intimately and personally close, touching Jesus Boby>>>>>>>>which was done only by Priest. >>>Women preforming Priestly Sacred duties, in anointing others with oil, such as Kings, Priest, High Priest, Prophets?

While He was on earth >>>>Jesus choose personally >>Woman to do so, not a male priests, did he and why?

Peace

No. The Levitical laws regarding the priesthood do not apply to Christians. All Catholic priests are taken up into the priesthood of Christ, who is a priest after the order of Melchizedech.

Can one enlighten me (because of my own ignorance) on Leviticus Priestly>>know as the P source by Scholars?
And interestingly also questioning did Jesus have issues with Priesty Laws toward woman such as when they committed adultry, woman were to be stone to death >or if found wearing 2 different cloths? Surly Jesus witness such in His time did he not? Yet, Jesus never preached on such, why?>Those without sin cast the first stone? Thank you Peace

 

[simpleas]

Yes, I learnt some interesting teaching that I didn’t recognise before reading your posts, so thanks again

I’m just digesting the Bridegroom masculine (Jesus, and the priest (a man) acting in the person of Jesus) and the Bride feminine (men and woman, the church)

The Bride which is a feminine element can represent the male as she does so in the metaphorical sense when we describe the church made up of both males and females.

It would seem that much emphasis is directed toward the sex of Christ much more than his humanity.

 

[simpleas]

Well for me, I couldn’t put a side the DNA that both humans contribute to a new life as both are needed to make up that new life, be it male or female.
So that is what I was trying to explain (I’m really poor at trying to explain myself on forums!) the human female has male and female ‘make up’ just as a man has too.

Again the emphasis is on the sex of the person, rather than on God.

 

[Zaccheus]

Only men are mentioned in the Last Supper narrative.

It’s not unreasonable to suggest that women were present.

However, from the accounts, we understand that Jesus was talking to the apostles, not everyone who might’ve been present.

Agreed. I see no reason to assume women were present but also no reason to assume they could not have been.
Further the Gospel account is concerned with what Christ said to the Twelve, not what He said to any hypothetical others present.

 

[simpleas]

Of course, we have the women doctors of the church. St. Catherine of Sienna had great influence over the Pope in her time

Yes, but none have been empowered within the church structure to preach the Gospel with any authority.

For me it is not about women being like men.

Good luck having an all male community without women sacrificing their body and blood to give them life

I think you know what I was getting at.

 

[simpleas]

Yes agreed, so then women should also be more active in ministry, they have the gifts and talents that can contribute to the well being of the church. Biological motherhood is not her only vocation, a very important one, just as fatherhood is.

Understanding it in the light of, men can represent male and female as priests, bride and bridegroom is very clever, quite complex, and I have a headache just getting head around it! Personally I have yet to understand the ontological change that only a male can receive from God when ordained into ministry.
You might say something quite spiritual happens to a woman when she gives birth, and I would agree, but women who do not give birth, and happen to feel called to minister are told there is no such change to the character, that they could never be ordained into the ministerial priesthood of Christ.

 

[simpleas]

To say that anyone who heard Jesus talk at the Last Supper is automatically a priest is just silly…

It certainly didn’t convince Judas.

 

[Zaccheus]

It certainly didn’t convince Judas.

John 20: 22-23
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Christ said this after His resurrection, which means it did not include Judas.
Judas was never ordained to the priesthood.

 

[Gorgias]

Elizabeth3:

Of course, we have the women doctors of the church. St. Catherine of Sienna had great influence over the Pope in her time

Yes, but none have been empowered within the church structure to preach the Gospel with any authority.

But… they do! In Bible studies, in CCD classrooms, in their families and with friends, they preach Jesus and His Gospel. And, to be honest, they do so with the exact same authority with which a priest preaches – that is, if they preach it accurately, it is the authoritative teaching of the Church, and if they don’t preach accurately, it isn’t.

What you mean is that you don’t see them doing it at the altar.

For me it is not about women being like men.

I think the word you’re looking for isn’t ‘like’, but ‘identical’. And, who would say that we’re identical ?

Gorgias:

To say that anyone who heard Jesus talk at the Last Supper is automatically a priest is just silly…

It certainly didn’t convince Judas.

And that’s relevant, because…?

 

[rose321]

he Levitical laws regarding the priesthood do not apply to Christians.

Respectfully toward, agree, could be correct guanophoreon about that! God choosen Priest, was determine by the blood Line was it not? Jesus, claim to be the Messiah, would come through the Blood Line, why Matthew and Luke go through the trouble to list Jesus bloodline all the way back to Adam? Would be Acceptable into His Hands?
Having to be of the Priestly Blood Line to become King and High Priest would this be correct?
For in the time of Jesus there were many claiming to be the Messiah, King David must of had many children etc?

Peace

 

[simpleas]

Not really relevant, just thinking that as the last supper is seen as the institution of the Eucharist and Jesus instituting the priesthood, Judas wasn’t as convinced as he still went ahead and betrayed Jesus…but yeah not that relevant to your comment.

 

[simpleas]

I think the word you’re looking for isn’t ‘like’, but ‘identical’. And, who would say that we’re identical ?

No, men are not identical to women, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem for men to represent a female as a priest.

 

[guanophore]

I think you accidentally attributed that quote to me!

I tried an edit, I hope that works!

 

[simpleas]

Maybe it’s worth mentioning Andronicus and Junia who seem to be considered Apostles.

_Romans 16-7 _
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[d] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Many women were disciples, followers of Jesus, but apostles are someone sent out with a message/mission.