The Church teaches that women cannot be priests because of the example set by Jesus in selecting the apostles. So why are women allowed communion?

[Gorgias]

No, men are not identical to women, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem for men to represent a female as a priest.

Men don’t represent a female as a priest. They represent Jesus in their role as a ministerial priest.

(They minister to both men and women, but they represent Jesus Christ.)

 

[Gorgias]

Maybe it’s worth mentioning Andronicus and Junia who seem to be considered Apostles.

Andronicus and Junia were notable in the presence of the apostles. I think it’s reasonable to conclude not that they were apostles themselves (after all, there were only 12 + Paul), but that they were of good repute by the apostles. In saying this, it seems that Paul is saying that they are reputable Christians, and the apostles recognized them as such.

 

[guanophore]

I was going from the scripture account. It is possible I was mistaken.

Since women were not considered “people” under the law (they were closer to posessions) they were often not “counted”. Scripture even clearly states they are “not counted”. Scripture also indicates that there were women that followed Jesus and provided for him and the disciples.

However, from the accounts, we understand that Jesus was talking to the apostles, not everyone who might’ve been present.

This is a very good point. Women and other disciples may have been present (we know from the later election of Matthias, for example, that he was with the Apostles from the beginning), and may have been included in communion, but not ordination for the priesthood.

Jesus, claim to be the Messiah, would come through the Blood Line,

Having to be of the Priestly Blood Line to become King and High Priest would this be correct?

King David must of had many children etc?

Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Yes, he was also a descendant of King David.

His priesthood had nothing to do with the Levitical priesthood.

 

[Elizabeth3]

m just digesting the Bridegroom masculine (Jesus, and the priest (a man) acting in the person of Jesus) and the Bride feminine (men and woman, the church)

Here are some quotes to maybe meditate on and help you digest the Bridegroom/Bride concept that Christ gave us.

"The Church alone, being the Bride of Christ and having all things in common with her Divine Spouse, is the depository of the truth. " Pope St. Pius X

“In fact, there is only one true and holy religion, founded and instituted by Christ Our Lord. Mother and Nurse of the virtues, Destroyer of vice, Liberator of souls, Guide to true happiness, she is called Catholic, Apostolic, and Roman.” Bl. Pope Pius IX

"This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride” (CCC 796).

" “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” 2 Cor 11:2

" “Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God” Romans 7

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband… And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” Rev 21

My own thoughts -

If a bride walks down the aisle to meet her Bridegroom, would she expect to see another woman standing there? That is what it would be like to see a woman priest on the altar.

When we are at Mass, we are there to worship the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. I know for myself when I go to Mass to worship God, if I were to see a woman standing as an icon of Christ Himself it wouldn’t make sense. IOW, if Christ were to return to earth today, I’d be expecting to see a man. If there is a woman standing there, my first instinct would be to reject the person as an imposter, not because women can’t “be Christ in the world” but because what I know of Christ is that He is the Son of Man.

 

[simpleas]

Men don’t represent a female as a priest. They represent Jesus in their role as a ministerial priest.

(They minister to both men and women, but they represent Jesus Christ.)

As far as I have been reading posts and understanding them in this thread, I took the meaning that men can represent women because men are born of women and so share their flesh, but a woman isn’t born of a man so she can not represent a male.

I give up…

 

[Elizabeth3]

It would seem that much emphasis is directed toward the sex of Christ much more than his humanity.

If it seems like that, then it’s a mis-interpretation.

The fact is that the emphasis is on His Incarnation-his taking human flesh. But given that humanity is made male and female, His flesh was of the male sex.

It’s those who think there should be women priests that focus on His sex first and His humanity second. It was His Divinity taking on human flesh that was able to redeem our flesh, whether we are male or female. If His Incarnation was foremost in their mind, then they would recognize His humanity (Flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, as Adam rejoiced in meeting Eve) and His sex, which identifies Him as Son of the Father, would assure them that he really is the Messiah prophesied of in the Old Testament. The male priest is able to be that sure sign of Him on the altar.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Yes, but none have been empowered within the church structure to preach the Gospel with any authority.

The purpose of the authority of the Church is to properly interpret Scripture and guide us in faith and morals. It’s true that it comes from within the Church structure (the bishops with the Pope as the Head). If we trust Christ that He gave them the power of the Holy Spirit as their guide so that the gates of hell can’t prevail over the Church, then we know that what the Church teaches authoritatively is true. It’s meant to be a source of peace in that we have a sure path to our salvation.

But the authority of the Church doesn’t end there, it’s purpose is for the Body of Christ to then go out and evangelize as individuals or as founders and workers for countless ministries, many headed by women, that take Christ to the world. Anytime anyone of the Body of Christ teaches what the Church teaches, they are also teaching authoritatively. I do it every Sunday for my Rel. Ed class. I do it as a mother to my children. I do it as a wife when I pass on what I have learned to my husband. The Sister who runs the Pastoral Office in my parish does it in her work and so on…

The ministerial priesthood serves the common priesthood of the Body but it’s the Body that has her mission to take the truth of Christ to the rest of the world. There are many women who have ministries.

Jonette Benkovic has had her Women of Grace ministry for many years.

Mother Angelica, founder of EWTN, as I mentioned before.

There are women who teach seminarians, our future priests.

There is a Catholic Women’s Forum. Here is part of their mission statement

"The Catholic Women’s Forum (CWF) is an international network of Catholic women that responds to Pope Francis’s call for women to be a “more effective presence” in the Church and in the world.

Our affiliated scholars bring their expertise to various audiences within the United States and abroad, providing insight, commentary, and analysis through writing, speeches, and media interviews.

Our symposia have generated over 40 scholarly papers to further the theological and pastoral work of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Laity, Women’s Section, which is now part of the new Dicastery for Laity, Family, and Life.

Our networking events draw together hundreds of Catholic women leaders, providing fellowship, faith formation, and professional insight."

There’s more of their mission I didn’t copy because it would be too long but you get the idea.

Monica Miller wrote a book titled The Authority of Women in the Catholic Church

and finally,

Here is an article about Women in Leadership in the Vatican

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...rship-blooming-for-women-in-the-vatican-30844

All women are empowered to preach the Gospel with authority. It’s the function of the Church to equip them for that mission.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Good luck having an all male community without women sacrificing their body and blood to give them life

I think you know what I was getting at.

I think you were trying to say that it’s somehow unfair if you have an all-male priesthood and an all male congregation, then no women are needed to represent Church and Bride. But, so what if an actual woman isn’t present in that setting? It doesn’t prove men are independent of women in a way that women are not. Like I pointed out, they needed women to even be there at all. This refers to Paul’s “Nevertheless” statement we discussed earlier. That tiny congregation is not the whole Church.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Personally I have yet to understand the ontological change that only a male can receive from God when ordained into ministry.

Ontological - Of or relating to essence or the nature of being.

Humanity is expressed as either “being male” or “being female” in it’s nature. Christ’s humanity was in the form of a male so only a male can be ontologically marked to express both Christ’s humanity and his manhood.

A woman isn’t able to receive that mark because that mark of Christ to stand in persona Christi isn’t able to be expressed truthfully according to her human nature as a female.

 

[Elizabeth3]

No, men are not identical to women, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem for men to represent a female as a priest.

A priest stands in the person of Christ, not to represent males and females. However, because Christ was human (as a man born of a woman, see how both sexes come into play here in that phrase?), it’s He who represents all of humanity even in his sex as a male.

 

[FiveLinden]

SO if the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, and the Church is the Bride of Christ, then is not Christ in His Mystical Body female, and his his Mystical Body not present in the Eucharist and, if so, why can a woman not confect the Eucharist?

 

[Gorgias]

As far as I have been reading posts and understanding them in this thread, I took the meaning that men can represent women because men are born of women and so share their flesh, but a woman isn’t born of a man so she can not represent a male.

Hmm… I hadn’t been following closely enough to see that notion develop. I’ll look back through the thread and see if I can find those posts…

 

[simpleas]

If a bride walks down the aisle to meet her Bridegroom, would she expect to see another woman standing there? That is what it would be like to see a woman priest on the altar.

I wonder what it’s like then for men to approach the altar and receive the Bridegroom? Maybe a question for another thread.

When we are at Mass, we are there to worship the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. I know for myself when I go to Mass to worship God, if I were to see a woman standing as an icon of Christ Himself it wouldn’t make sense. IOW, if Christ were to return to earth today, I’d be expecting to see a man. If there is a woman standing there, my first instinct would be to reject the person as an imposter, not because women can’t “be Christ in the world” but because what I know of Christ is that He is the Son of Man.

Yeah, I’m not denying that Jesus was a Man, you do know that?

At mass, I see a man acting as Jesus, but I don’t think of the priest as being ‘another’ Jesus.

 

[simpleas]

Yes there are many vital roles for woman, which is great and I think it’s hopefully heading in a good direction (deaconess)

But no woman has ever lead or partly lead within the hierarchy.

 

[Gorgias]

But no woman has ever lead or partly lead within the hierarchy.

No? No women in leadership roles? Are you certain?

 

[simpleas]

I think you were trying to say that it’s somehow unfair if you have an all-male priesthood and an all male congregation, then no women are needed to represent Church and Bride.

No I meant that in an all female group (say nuns) the male priest is needed to consecrate the bread and wine.
Though the host could be consecrated before hand and woman/lay men can continue with a ‘mass’.

 

[simpleas]

A woman isn’t able to receive that mark because that mark of Christ to stand in persona Christi isn’t able to be expressed truthfully according to her human nature as a female.

You most likely don’t mean this, but a statement like that makes me think that woman are just ungodly.

 

[simpleas]

I’ll need to read it later, I’m thinking of Pope, bishops etc.

 

[Gorgias]

I’ll need to read it later, I’m thinking of Pope, bishops etc.

OK, so, your comment really just means “no woman has ever been a priest”? Yes, that’s true.

 

[Lea101]

This thread is quite interesting. I have never gone further than the ‘Jesus is a man’ response. I was always more interested in the inequality of women in decision making, women in families, overall perception etc than strictly the priesthood.

Sometimes I feel that maybe it isn’t as deep as it looks like (the male priesthood).