The Church's Ultimate Trial

[po18guy]

I am proud to be a Seventh-day Adventist. They have taught me what the Bible says about the Church’s ultimate trial; and I find it very disappointing that your church is so vague on the subject.

It is a comfort to me. Specificity would kill us. We would wail in torment, even as Christians. As it is, those days have been shortened, or none of us would survive.

Strange, isn’t it, that the church that is constantly accused of making things up is also accused, in the case of Revelation, of failing to make things up? I would question someone who claimed to be a prophet or have revealed knowledge of the end. John was the end of the line. Faith and trust are what we are to possess.

Christ’s peace.

 

[LilyM]

The short time you took to read all that material tells me you must be a genius. And if you can’t understand what has been said
I don’t know if I can explain it. Please go over the material more carefully.

The quotes from the Popes were short and I don’t care to read what anyone else thinks of 'em, they speak for themselves.

 

[beboldfor]

The quotes from the Popes were short and I don’t care to read what anyone else thinks of 'em, they speak for themselves.

I am sorry that you only want to give this a superficial glance. There is much more being said than you indicate.

 

[po18guy]

The problem with doing what you ask is that not all SDAs believe the same thing. I have met SDAs who claim that yuo must be SDA to be saved, some who claim that you don’t have to be SDA but you must worship on Saturday and others who say that neither is a requirement. I’ve also met SDAs who believe, and showed me the belief in SDA teaching, that, prior to the incarnation, Jesus was the arkangel Michael (as JWs believe) and others who not only don’t believe it but have never even heard of the idea.

Just because you believe or reject a particular belief doesn’t mean that the same is true of other SDAs.

Gary

Lest we forget the Branch Davidians, who split from the SDA in the mid 50s over doctrinal differences. Maybe we should consider their beliefs, since they are a newer development, and possibly more refined or with additional insight than even the SDA.

But, once we begin our search for the personal church, where do we stop?

 

[Protestant101]

The problem with doing what you ask is that not all SDAs believe the same thing. I have met SDAs who claim that yuo must be SDA to be saved, some who claim that you don’t have to be SDA but you must worship on Saturday and others who say that neither is a requirement. I’ve also met SDAs who believe, and showed me the belief in SDA teaching, that, prior to the incarnation, Jesus was the arkangel Michael (as JWs believe) and others who not only don’t believe it but have never even heard of the idea.

Just because you believe or reject a particular belief doesn’t mean that the same is true of other SDAs.

Gary

As I mentioned Gary; the official teachings of the Adventist Church is where your lack of knowledge shows here. It would be easy to prove from our official writings, whether or not we teach as you say. Many Catholics also do not see things the same way. I run into it all the time; it is what the official teachings are that count here for this discussion.

You won’t be able to prove what you say about us, or about your own church. Your teachings are so vague; yet, the Bible says it doesn’t have to be. We can know what’s coming, because it’s in the Bible.

 

[garysibio]

We also believe that the word of God is living. Protestants believe it is absolute, and that the Bible is the only reliable source. And it’s not. That’s what I was trying to get at.

Neither God, nor His Word, is dead.

That’s not Deism, however. Deism says that God created the universe and has not interacted with it since. There would be no divinely-inspired Bible under Deism since God would not have given it to us.

Gary

 

[garysibio]

I did not say a Jewish soul is worth more than a non Jewish soul.Jesus loves us all equally. But the Jewish people have a special significance when it comes to understanding Gods plan. If the Cambodian people convert to Christianity it has no eschatological meaning. But the CCC says that at the end the Jewish people will convert, their actions and experiences reveal Gods working in the world. That is why I said that the Jewish people having a passion and resurrection experience followed by the retaking Jerusalem, which is a Biblical prophecy, is very important. No one has said anything about why Popes Paul VI and John Paul II made end times statements if these statements are useless or meaningless.

I never said you did say a Jewish soul was more important than anyone elses. I was just adding to the list of history’s monsters.

Gary

 

[garysibio]

OK; but I have also agreed here that time setting is not supported by the Bible; but why are you still arguing as if I am? If Jesus, through Bible prophecy, gives us certain warnings and admonitions, why should we not care about them? Why would it be so wrong to study these things to “see if they are so?” (Acts 17:11). When it comes to Bible prophecy, Catholics are much more vague than is the Bible. I wonder though, would your own Catholic writings even go so far as to support what you said in your last post here? You should maybe check that out a bit more. If I have time later, I will tell you.

There is a a difference between being interested in what Jesus said about future events and being so fixated on the subject that you see every natural disaster as a sign that Jesus is returning before you can finish typing out your response.

When I was a Protestant I heard plenty of sermons on Matt 24 but not a single one on Matt 25.

Gary

 

[garysibio]

Maybe you are too confident in something that does not exist except in the desperation of Roman Catholic apologetics? There are many who studied the Scriptures well before the Catholic Church was born.

Just the Old Testament. The Catholic Church was born on the day of Pentecost, well before the New Testament was written. Let’s stick to facts, not Ellen G. White’ nonsense.

Gary

 

[Filius99993]

Just the Old Testament. The Catholic Church was born on the day of Pentecost, well before the New Testament was written. Let’s stick to facts, not Ellen G. White’ nonsense.

Gary

According to him, Ellen B. White’s word is under the “Word of God” category. He’s not going to think rationally about it.

 

[garysibio]

As I mentioned Gary; the official teachings of the Adventist Church is where your lack of knowledge shows here. It would be easy to prove from our official writings, whether or not we teach as you say. Many Catholics also do not see things the same way. I run into it all the time; it is what the official teachings are that count here for this discussion.

You won’t be able to prove what you say about us, or about your own church. Your teachings are so vague; yet, the Bible says it doesn’t have to be. We can know what’s coming, because it’s in the Bible.

And where would I find these so-called official SDA teachings? What happens to someone, SDA or otherwise, who rejects them?

Gary

 

[Protestant101]

There is a a difference between being interested in what Jesus said about future events and being so fixated on the subject that you see every natural disaster as a sign that Jesus is returning before you can finish typing out your response.

When I was a Protestant I heard plenty of sermons on Matt 24 but not a single one on Matt 25.

Gary

Now, thats very true re being so fixated on ‘natural’ events, as they are certainly not even the half of what Jesus listed about the ‘signs’ we can look for, and recognize.

It is unfortunate though that you have never heard a good sermon on Mat.25; I have heard several; not just in my own church either. Can you tell me the reason you mentioned this chapter, in light of this current topic of The Church’s Ultimate Trial?

 

[garysibio]

Now, thats very true re being so fixated on ‘natural’ events, as they are certainly not even the half of what Jesus listed about the ‘signs’ we can look for, and recognize.

It is unfortunate though that you have never heard a good sermon on Mat.25; I have heard several; not just in my own church either. Can you tell me the reason you mentioned this chapter, in light of this current topic of The Church’s Ultimate Trial?

Uh, I never said I had never heard a good sermon on Matt 25; I said specifically ‘‘When I was a Protestant.’’ There’s a big difference there. My point was that many Protestants get so wrapped up in end times prophecy that they forget the part of the Gospel that deals with our life on Earth.

You never answered my question about how it would change your way of life if you knew with absolute certainty that Jesus was going to return by the end of the month.

Gary

 

[po18guy]

Maybe you are too confident in something that does not exist except in the desperation of Roman Catholic apologetics? There are many who studied the Scriptures well before the Catholic Church was born.

But not the Apocalypse! 101, you are being yourself again!!!

Is God infinite and infinitely mysterious? Then, how on earth and why on earth should we attempt to understand him? Do you and I not believe that His love for us is like unquenchable fire? Let us have faith and trust in the living, loving God. Amen.

 

[Protestant101]

Uh, I never said I had never heard a good sermon on Matt 25; I said specifically ‘‘When I was a Protestant.’’ There’s a big difference there. My point was that many Protestants get so wrapped up in end times prophecy that they forget the part of the Gospel that deals with our life on Earth.

You never answered my question about how it would change your way of life if you knew with absolute certainty that Jesus was going to return by the end of the month.

Gary

End times prophecies, from the Bible, actually do deal with our life here on Earth, in many personal and corporate ways. This is why it is so unfortunate that the Roman Catholic leadership is so vague on prophecy.

IF I knew with certainty that Jesus was coming today at 3’Oclock; how would it change my life? Not a lot to be honest. I plan on planting some flowers right after lunch; and I don’t see why He would have a problem with catching someone doing that when he comes. The Bible says that whatever way we are in character when Jesus comes, we will face judgment on that basis:

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
**Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. **
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[vern_humphrey]

End times prophecies, from the Bible, actually do deal with our life here on Earth, in many personal and corporate ways. This is why it is so unfortunate that the Roman Catholic leadership is so vague on prophecy.

Revelation does not predict the weather or the stock market. It was written to deal with Domitian’s Persecution, and it’s value is it’s timeless message.

IF I knew with certainty that Jesus was coming today at 3’Oclock; how would it change my life? Not a lot to be honest. I plan on planting some flowers right after lunch; and I don’t see why He would have a problem with catching someone doing that when he comes. The Bible says that whatever way we are in character when Jesus comes, we will face judgment on that basis:

Saint Augustine would disagree – you would be better off following your normal business.

 

[De_Maria]

End times prophecies, from the Bible, actually do deal with our life here on Earth, in many personal and corporate ways. This is why it is so unfortunate that the Roman Catholic leadership is so vague on prophecy.

Yes, Biblical prophecy does deal with our life here on earth. And the Catholic Church interprets the Bible infallibly to
instruct us in how to lead our lives so that we please God and our united to Him in this life and in the next.

But Protestant interpretation frequently misinterprets Bible Prophecy because Protestants believe in interpreting the Bible according to their private reason alone. This tradition is called Sola Scriptura and it leads to a great deal of error.

IF I knew with certainty that Jesus was coming today at 3’Oclock; how would it change my life? Not a lot to be honest. I plan on planting some flowers right after lunch; and I don’t see why He would have a problem with catching someone doing that when he comes. The Bible says that whatever way we are in character when Jesus comes, we will face judgment on that basis:

So, unless you know that Jesus is coming in the endtimes, you won’t change your life?

This is why Catholic Teaching is so much more pertinent to our lives than Protestant error. The Catholic Church keeps before us the fact that we are MORTAL. Even if I know with certainty that Jesus won’t be here for another thousand years, I will never know when I will die. And I might die tomorrow, therefore I have amended my lfie that I will die with a clear conscience and with complete hope and confidence in my maker.

1 Corinthians 4 4 For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[mark_a]

So, unless you know that Jesus is coming in the endtimes, you won’t change your life?

The Catholic Church keeps before us the fact that we are MORTAL. Even if I know with certainty that Jesus won’t be here for another thousand years, I will never know when I will die. And I might die tomorrow, therefore I have amended my lfie that I will die with a clear conscience and with complete hope and confidence in my maker.

1 Corinthians 4 4 For I am not conscious to myself of any thing, yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me, is the Lord.

Tis is a good and reasonable presentation.

I like what Fr. Corapi says about the end times. “I don’t know about THE end, but the end for you and me is very near.”

 

[Protestant101]

Revelation does not predict the weather or the stock market. It was written to deal with Domitian’s Persecution, and it’s value is it’s timeless message.

Saint Augustine would disagree – you would be better off following your normal business.

Hi Vern

Can you provide some references to explain why and how Augustine would “disagree?” And what is it he would disagree with out of my last post?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hi Vern

Can you provide some references to explain why and how Augustine would “disagree?” And what is it he would disagree with out of my last post?

Agustine described a discussion he had over “What would you do if you knew you were to die today.” His conclusion was, if you have lived a proper life, do nothing out of the ordinary. If not, too late.