The Cows Come Home

[trevor]

Matt25:

It is a conservative government. Chirac is the leader of the Gaullist Party which is part of the governing right wing co-alition. The last socialist president was Mitterand. You might like to use facts to support your arguments. If the facts didn’t have the stubborn habit of pointing the opposite way to your belief’s that is.

Facts aside I think we can safely say that Mr. Chirac is not entirely supportive of the United States.

The point you are missing is that a Conservative Party in France is like a Liberal Party in the U.S. You are not comparing apples and apples (I was finally able to write that).

I love your posts Matt, you always get the conversation going .

ybiC,
Trevor

 

[trevor]

Matt25:

Is there any actual evidence for this? Has anyone been convicted? Is anyone under arrest?

Yes Matt, France has a little something called:

BILL OF SALE

That’s when you sell something and get paid for it.

Ta Ta,
Trevor

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

trevor:

Yes Matt, France has a little something called:

BILL OF SALE

That’s when you sell something and get paid for it.

Ta Ta,
Trevor

Do you have a copy of all of the vouchers and other authentic documents linking officials within the government to this program?

 

[trevor]

Scott_Lafrance:

Do you have a copy of all of the vouchers and other authentic documents linking officials within the government to this program?

I don’t have a copy of vouchers but it is comon knowledge that France benefitted greatly over the last few years by doing business with Iraq.

Please refer to the end of this article that I have provided the link for after an exhaustive internet search.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2930747.stm

Peace,
Trevor

 

[Matt25]

trevor:

Facts aside I think we can safely say that Mr. Chirac is not entirely supportive of the United States.

After September 11 2001 President Chirac said, and I agreed with him “We are all Americans now”. If neither of us say that anymore is that 100% our fault or could the USA have done a few things a bit less confrontationally?

trevor:

I love your posts Matt, you always get the conversation going .

ybiC,
Trevor

Well thank you Trevor

 

[trevor]

Matt25:

After September 11 2001 President Chirac said, and I agreed with him “We are all Americans now”. If neither of us say that anymore is that 100% our fault or could the USA have done a few things a bit less confrontationally?

Well thank you Trevor

Maybe this is being too confrontational Matt but I really don’t care what France or Mr. Chirac cares about us. As Americans we do more than any other country in this world. We give more, feed more, help more.

Based on that I would think the rest of the world would be a little more on our side and a little less picky. We aren’t perfect but we do alot of good.

All I heard before we went into Iraq was Chirac this, Chirac that. Who in the heck is Chirac telling us what we should or shouldn’t do. All I could thank of at the time was that he needs to sit down and have a nice cup of shut up.

Now that I have vented, WHEW, we do need to keep dialogue open and take the positive with the negative.

So fine, now Chiracs an American, he wasn’t a few months ago. That’s all I am saying. Let’s call a spade a spade. If we do something wrong, we’ll admit it but I better be hearing about 500 thank you’s a day.

Please don’t think I am attacking you or anyone else. Just venting my own feelings on the situation.

Take care buddy,
Trevor

 

[trevor]

trevor:

Maybe this is being too confrontational Matt but I really don’t care what France or Mr. Chirac cares about us. As Americans we do more than any other country in this world. We give more, feed more, help more.

Based on that I would think the rest of the world would be a little more on our side and a little less picky. We aren’t perfect but we do alot of good.

All I heard before we went into Iraq was Chirac this, Chirac that. Who in the heck is Chirac telling us what we should or shouldn’t do. All I could thank of at the time was that he needs to sit down and have a nice cup of shut up.

Now that I have vented, WHEW, we do need to keep dialogue open and take the positive with the negative.

So fine, now Chiracs an American, he wasn’t a few months ago. That’s all I am saying. Let’s call a spade a spade. If we do something wrong, we’ll admit it but I better be hearing about 500 thank you’s a day.

Please don’t think I am attacking you or anyone else. Just venting my own feelings on the situation.

Take care buddy,
Trevor

Wow, next thing you know I will be promoting American world domination. I should never write at the end of a long work day.

What I was trying to get across was that France was one of the loudest speakers against the war in Iraq. I think you know I didn’t want to go either.

Thanks,
Trevor

 

[Werner]

Matt, this is just a big misunderstanding.
For us Europeans a conservative is somebody who is politically conservative, a liberal is somebody who is politically liberal, and a socialist is somebody who is politically socialist.

For a good part of Americans a conservative is somebody who supports Dubya, and somebody who doesn’t support Dubya is a pinko liberal commie. Thus Chirac for those Americans has to be a pinko liberal commie, whereas for everybody else in the world he is a conservative who happens to have an oppinion on Iraq that is different of Dubya’s.

@trevor

France was caught red handed with their hand in the cookie jar and I’ll let Werner tell us what Germany was up to.

Not i did tell you, i let your own government tell you. I posted a link, why don’t you comment on that? It shows who had his hands in the cookie jar up to the ellbows, and it wasn’t France! Hint: It starts with an “U” and ends with an “S”

if it wasn’t for us, neither of these countries would exist today.

and if it wasn’t for the French and the German Steuben you would have Queen Elizabeth instead of Dubya as your head of state today, so what?

Werner

 

[Norwich]

Strange. Werner gave a link showing oil consumption from Iraq up to 2003. Nobody from the good old US of A has commented on it. We’re concentrating on what Germany did or what France did but those figues indicate that the good old US of A used more than 50% of the Iraqi oil produced during a time of sactions imposed by the terrible UN.

Now I don’t want to sound cynical but, could someone from the good old US of A who seems to know all the answers please explain to us poor ignorant Europeans?

note: Matt, FF, put your flack jackets on, I can sense incoming!!!

 

[trevor]

Norwich:

Strange. Werner gave a link showing oil consumption from Iraq up to 2003. Nobody from the good old US of A has commented on it. We’re concentrating on what Germany did or what France did but those figues indicate that the good old US of A used more than 50% of the Iraqi oil produced during a time of sactions imposed by the terrible UN.

Now I don’t want to sound cynical but, could someone from the good old US of A who seems to know all the answers please explain to us poor ignorant Europeans?

note: Matt, FF, put your flack jackets on, I can sense incoming!!!

Jealousy will get you everywhere boys.

Didn’t you forget to say thank you?

Trevor

 

[trevor]

Norwich:

Now I don’t want to sound cynical but, could someone from the good old US of A who seems to know all the answers please explain to us poor ignorant Europeans?

Dear Norwich,

I don’t recall calling Europeans poor…

Cheerio,
Trevor

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

trevor:

Dear Norwich,

I don’t recall calling Europeans poor…

Cheerio,
Trevor

I don’t recall anyong implying that Europeans were ignorant either.

 

[Norwich]

Still no answer? Must have been a very difficult question. lets try again.

Why did America import over half of the Iraqi oil production in 2003 when sanctions were in place?

Come on you lot, ther must be an answer!!!:bounce:

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Norwich:

Still no answer? Must have been a very difficult question. lets try again.

Why did America import over half of the Iraqi oil production in 2003 when sanctions were in place?

Come on you lot, ther must be an answer!!!:bounce:

What do you have to show that proves that the some official within a US Governmental agency did so outside of the stipulations of the sanctions or the Food-for-Oil program?

 

[Lance]

Scott,
Norwich has made 318 posts as of today at 16:05 CST. Not a one had anything nice to say about America, that is why he is on my ignore list. You would think that he could come up with something about us he likes but he has not seen fit to do so. I find that by ignoring him, Matt25 and others like them I am more able to keep my calm and less likely to lose my temper.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Lance:

Scott,
Norwich has made 318 posts as of today at 16:05 CST. Not a one had anything nice to say about America, that is why he is on my ignore list. You would think that he could come up with something about us he likes but he has not seen fit to do so. I find that by ignoring him, Matt25 and others like them I am more able to keep my calm and less likely to lose my temper.

Thanks for the heads up, I sorta suspected anti-Americanism from the lot of them. I don’t loose my temper anymore, watching people like this flail around in their own vemonous diatribes is far too amusing. I find that people of their ilk have a tendency to get themselves suspended or banned anyway, sorta like that yutz who started the Sanhedrin thread and the one about Rabbi’s giving kids herpes during circumcisions. If I want a respectable “liberal non-American” opinion, I’ll turn to FightingFat. He has proven himself a respectable poster who keeps his comments charitable and on point, even when his opinion differs from mine (and is therefore wrong smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif). These other guys, I just give them enough rope…

 

[Lance]

Scott_Lafrance:

Thanks for the heads up, I sorta suspected anti-Americanism from the lot of them. I don’t loose my temper anymore, watching people like this flail around in their own vemonous diatribes is far too amusing. I find that people of their ilk have a tendency to get themselves suspended or banned anyway, sorta like that yutz who started the Sanhedrin thread and the one about Rabbi’s giving kids herpes during circumcisions. If I want a respectable “liberal non-American” opinion, I’ll turn to FightingFat. He has proven himself a respectable poster who keeps his comments charitable and on point, even when his opinion differs from mine (and is therefore wrong smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif). These other guys, I just give them enough rope…

Off track, but where do you get these emocons?

 

[Matt25]

Scott_Lafrance:

Thanks for the heads up, I sorta suspected anti-Americanism from the lot of them. I don’t loose my temper anymore, watching people like this flail around in their own vemonous diatribes is far too amusing. I find that people of their ilk have a tendency to get themselves suspended or banned anyway, sorta like that yutz who started the Sanhedrin thread and the one about Rabbi’s giving kids herpes during circumcisions. If I want a respectable “liberal non-American” opinion, I’ll turn to FightingFat. He has proven himself a respectable poster who keeps his comments charitable and on point, even when his opinion differs from mine (and is therefore wrong smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif). These other guys, I just give them enough rope…

Is disagreeing with the foreign policy of the Republican Party necessarily anti-American then? Have I criticised the American way of life? Have I attacked all Americans as Americans? Heck when have I been uncharitable to you? Do you want a discussion forum to be a place where we all get together and dissent from the Holy Father’s view on Islam and the Iraq war?

:tsktsk:

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Matt25:

Is disagreeing with the foreign policy of the Republican Party necessarily anti-American then? Have I criticised the American way of life? Have I attacked all Americans as Americans? Heck when have I been uncharitable to you? Do you want a discussion forum to be a place where we all get together and dissent from the Holy Father’s view on Islam and the Iraq war?

:tsktsk:

You never have been uncharitable with me, and neither have I been uncharitable with you specifically. I never mentioned anyone by name, only that those who come in here to cause trouble usually find themselves IN trouble. If you feel included in the group that I mentioned above, then that is a conundrum of your own psyche, not my revelation. If you have a perspective that differs from my “american conservative” one, then great. I welcome it as a necessary part of the social discourse.

The Holy Father’s dissent of the Iraq war was as a private theologian and head of state. It is perfectly acceptable for me to disagree with his perspective. It is when the “Bush is the master of all evil and the son of perdition” diatribe that rears its ugly head that I have a problem with. I don’t agree with everything that Bush does, and I have serious reservations about the Republican party. However, until a party that more accurately presents itself as a more acceptablefit to my Catholic worldview presents itself, then I am stuck with the “Conservative, but not too conservative” party.

 

[Werner]

Good grief, hypocrisy here for sure is crying to heaven.

This thread started as a bashing of Europeans by Americans, some Europeans started defending themselves and posted US government resources to show the accusations where not only false, but au contraire, the accusations fell back on the US.

And then, instead of saying “oh sorry, didn’t know that, i had wrong informations” our American friends start crying and whining about antiamericanism and complain about America bashing Europeans.

It was you who was bashing we just were defending ourselves!

A second thought: I am always amazed how the very same people who always sing the song of “but the church says, but the Pope means, but Cardinal Ratzinger wants” suddenly say “to heck with what the Pope says” when it is contrary to their believes, like with the war in Iraq.

How did i say above? Hypocrisy here for sure is crying to heaven

Werner