C
Ceil-1
Guest
Yes, but the break-dancing stuff is not dancing with a partner of the opposite sex.
- Status
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
There’s a story about St. John of Kronstadt who was making rounds of his parishioners’s homes, and came to one where it was obvious a party was in progress, and they were about to start dancing, but refrained when he knocked at their door.
He asked them why they were NOT dancing. He said that one should dance at parties, especially when young, and if he didn’t have on his cassock, he would dance with them.
St. John of Kronstadt was known for his miracles and prophetic gifts, even telling penitents in confession what their sins were.
I scanned the Curé’s sermon, and the last paragraph gives a key to understanding it. Apparently people in his parish were going to dances and parties, and not going to Church.
Not even St. John of Kronstadt would approve of that.
He asked them why they were NOT dancing. He said that one should dance at parties, especially when young, and if he didn’t have on his cassock, he would dance with them.
St. John of Kronstadt was known for his miracles and prophetic gifts, even telling penitents in confession what their sins were.
I scanned the Curé’s sermon, and the last paragraph gives a key to understanding it. Apparently people in his parish were going to dances and parties, and not going to Church.
Not even St. John of Kronstadt would approve of that.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Hi. I just read a sermon by the Cure of Ars. He discusses the evils of dancing. I found it disturbing. Is it a sin to dance? I never thought so, but this sermon is quite clear:
"Ah, you say, you are making more of it than there really is! I say too much about it? Very well, then. Listen. Did the Holy Fathers of the Church say too much about it? St. Ephraim tells us that dancing is the perdition of girls and women, the blinding of men, the grief of angels, and the joy of the devils. Dear God, can anyone really have their eyes bewitched to such an extent that they will still want to believe that there is no harm in it, while all the time it is the rope by which the Devil pulls the most souls into Hell?"
He goes on to chastise parents that let their children dance. It gets pretty heavy:
"The Council of Aix-la-Chapelle forbids dancing, even at weddings. And St. Charles Borromeo, the Archbishop of Milan, says that three years of penance were given to someone who had danced and that if he went back to it, he was threatened with excommunication. If there were no harm in it, then were the Holy Fathers and the Church mistaken?"
Can anyone shed some light on this??? I am afraid to dance now! I always considered dancing a wholesome activity.
Dancing was regarded as sinful for a very long time, as being sinful, or at least a near occasion of sin. For this reason, waltzing was severely judged, certainly at first. Yet in retrospect, it looks rather staid.
It’s partly a matter of culture. The dancing of David before the Ark in 2 Samuel 6 is not blamed - if anything, the anecdote about his wife Michal (who thought he was lowering himself by doing so) implies that he was doing nothing wrong at all. The dance of Miriam & the women who “went out after her with timbrels and with dances” at the crossing of the Red Sea in Exodus 15 is not blamed either: it is a dance of victory. So all dancing is not wrong. Whether dancing as a form of entertainment is wrong is a different matter. ONe has to ask why the Fathers condemned dancing: was it condemned in itself, or because it was bound up with things that made it objectionable by association ? Dances are of many kinds - so ISTM that one cannot generalise. IMHO, it’s possible to be excessively strict.These may be of interest:
- [()
- [()
- [youtube.com/watch?v=BCptMS8IZvA&feature=related ()
- [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1CMN-PTYWw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1CMN-PTYWw&feature=related)
- [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7BPfF6j5Mo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7BPfF6j5Mo)
L
Lainey63
Guest
I’m just curious about this. Is this the same period of time in which it was believe that if an unmarried woman owned a cat was a witch? Also, I read a story about St Francis dancing before the pope and it was this dance that somehow influenced the pope to give whatever it was that St Francis was asking for at the time. I would have to search for that story but maybe someone else knows about it and can clarify it.
S
Sheeniac
Guest
I’ve read the collected sermons of St. John Vianney and yes, he was pretty much anti-dancing. Times were different, and since I haven’t heard anything from Rome about the sins of dancing I wouldn’t worry too much.
However, it’s best to remember that we’re to avoid the proximity to sin, so keep that in mind while twirling around on the dance floor.
However, it’s best to remember that we’re to avoid the proximity to sin, so keep that in mind while twirling around on the dance floor.
S
Shin
Guest
John of Kronstadt I will note is of recent Russian Orthodox origin, not a Catholic saint.
St. Jean Marie Vianney is known for his miracles, he had many gifts including discernment of spirits, prophecy, hidden knowledge. The reason he preaches against dancing is all in the sermon. And they are reasons that are not simply to do with his parish’s local condition, but which apply to commonly accompany dancing in the world.
One of the key reasons against dances is rather obvious, let’s focus on it. St. Jean is particularly complaining about dancing men and woman dancing together, and the impure attachments, flirtations, fascinations, crushes, romantic imaginations, etc. that habitually go on at these.
Instead of guarding their hearts for a future spouse, these people are imagining all sorts of things that show no fidelity but treat the passions lightheartedly.
In other words it is a near occasion of sin for most of them, they are certainly going to sin there. At the very least their behavior will be full of imperfections and lead them casually to worse behavior.
The world treats all these things very casually but as good Christians we cannot treat matters as slight that offend God greatly and can cause us to enter into mortal sin and lose our souls.
St. Jean once took a visitor to his graveyard, and spoke of it as his reliquary. His parishioners went to Heaven. . far more often than the norm.
If we live for the happiness and passions the world celebrates, are we living for God? Who lived a life of mortification?
Certainly there are times and forms of dance when dancing can be done, but these are rare and because of the sinful nature of worldly people almost never happen in these times. Certainly St. Jean’s parish was more moral than ours, their dances would likely strike us like country or folk dancing today. And yet even so then there was trouble.
Some forms of dancing are always immoral because of the immodesty and immoral passions the lack or type of clothing and movements cause.
In regards to ballet… In the past perhaps ballet was better clothed, now I cannot regard the typical ballet outfit as modest or moral, so I cannot think a person can normally be trained in it morally. This is simply the sad fashion standard that is in place, the standards of fashion in the world often exclude Christians from being able to participate in many activities. But we cannot hold this against God, we can only hold it against the world.
There is good dancing, but it would not generally be one of mixed couples, because at best this sort of dancing is ‘good for nothing’ because it is even when modest only a frill of worldly entertainment that can lead to the more risky dances.
Normally it is for the eyes of the spectators showing off one’s physical appearance and motions, like a peacock.
While not all dancing is bad, and we can dance in our hearts, or in our homes – and one can dance to celebrate if it is done properly and soberly using forms of dance not anymore generally used – as a rule when it is a public dance it never is. This is simply the culture of the world.
No one likes to deliver bad news, but I think a sober consideration of what goes on in the hearts of people who dance reveals the real problems. It is a letting go of restraints, and people who are not already morally restrained, cannot handle it. Of course people who do not see the motions of the hearts, these crushes, romances, passionate glances and imaginings, the casual mingling with its air of passion as harmful will love dances.
So for these people they have to begin again studying what the saints have to say about purity and modesty and its importance, and fidelity in the spiritual life. Then they will realize what they treated lightly was weightier than ever they thought.
We come to confession quite preoccupied with the shame that we shall feel. We accuse ourselves with hot air. It is said that many confess, and few are converted. I believe it is so, my children, because few confess with tears of repentance. See, the misfortune is, that people do not reflect. If one said to those who work on Sundays, to a young person who had been dancing for two or three hours, to a man coming out of an alehouse drunk, “What have you been doing? You have been crucifying Our Lord!” they would be quite astonished, because they do not think of it. My children, if we thought of it, we should be seized with horror; it would be impossible for us to do evil. For what has the good God done to us that we should grieve Him thus, and put Him to death again – Him, who has redeemed us from Hell? It would be well if all sinners, when they are going to their guilty pleasures, could, like St. Peter, meet Our Lord on the way, who would say to them, “I am going to that place where you are going yourself, to be there crucified again.” Perhaps that might make them reflect.’
‘This is a good rule of conduct, to do nothing but what we can offer to the good God. Now, we cannot offer to Him slanders, calumnies, injustice, anger, blasphemy, impurity, night clubs, dancing; yet that is all that people do in the world. Speaking of dances, St. Francis of Sales used to say that “they were like mushrooms, the best were good for nothing.” Mothers are apt to say indeed, “Oh, I watch over my daughters.” They watch over their attire, but they cannot watch over their hearts. . . Ah, if they well understood this responsibility they would never have any dances. Just like those who make bad pictures and statues, or write bad books, they will have to answer for all the harm that these things will do during all the time they last.’
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
St. Jean Marie Vianney is known for his miracles, he had many gifts including discernment of spirits, prophecy, hidden knowledge. The reason he preaches against dancing is all in the sermon. And they are reasons that are not simply to do with his parish’s local condition, but which apply to commonly accompany dancing in the world.
One of the key reasons against dances is rather obvious, let’s focus on it. St. Jean is particularly complaining about dancing men and woman dancing together, and the impure attachments, flirtations, fascinations, crushes, romantic imaginations, etc. that habitually go on at these.
Instead of guarding their hearts for a future spouse, these people are imagining all sorts of things that show no fidelity but treat the passions lightheartedly.
In other words it is a near occasion of sin for most of them, they are certainly going to sin there. At the very least their behavior will be full of imperfections and lead them casually to worse behavior.
The world treats all these things very casually but as good Christians we cannot treat matters as slight that offend God greatly and can cause us to enter into mortal sin and lose our souls.
St. Jean once took a visitor to his graveyard, and spoke of it as his reliquary. His parishioners went to Heaven. . far more often than the norm.
If we live for the happiness and passions the world celebrates, are we living for God? Who lived a life of mortification?
Certainly there are times and forms of dance when dancing can be done, but these are rare and because of the sinful nature of worldly people almost never happen in these times. Certainly St. Jean’s parish was more moral than ours, their dances would likely strike us like country or folk dancing today. And yet even so then there was trouble.
Some forms of dancing are always immoral because of the immodesty and immoral passions the lack or type of clothing and movements cause.
In regards to ballet… In the past perhaps ballet was better clothed, now I cannot regard the typical ballet outfit as modest or moral, so I cannot think a person can normally be trained in it morally. This is simply the sad fashion standard that is in place, the standards of fashion in the world often exclude Christians from being able to participate in many activities. But we cannot hold this against God, we can only hold it against the world.
There is good dancing, but it would not generally be one of mixed couples, because at best this sort of dancing is ‘good for nothing’ because it is even when modest only a frill of worldly entertainment that can lead to the more risky dances.
Normally it is for the eyes of the spectators showing off one’s physical appearance and motions, like a peacock.
While not all dancing is bad, and we can dance in our hearts, or in our homes – and one can dance to celebrate if it is done properly and soberly using forms of dance not anymore generally used – as a rule when it is a public dance it never is. This is simply the culture of the world.
No one likes to deliver bad news, but I think a sober consideration of what goes on in the hearts of people who dance reveals the real problems. It is a letting go of restraints, and people who are not already morally restrained, cannot handle it. Of course people who do not see the motions of the hearts, these crushes, romances, passionate glances and imaginings, the casual mingling with its air of passion as harmful will love dances.
So for these people they have to begin again studying what the saints have to say about purity and modesty and its importance, and fidelity in the spiritual life. Then they will realize what they treated lightly was weightier than ever they thought.
We come to confession quite preoccupied with the shame that we shall feel. We accuse ourselves with hot air. It is said that many confess, and few are converted. I believe it is so, my children, because few confess with tears of repentance. See, the misfortune is, that people do not reflect. If one said to those who work on Sundays, to a young person who had been dancing for two or three hours, to a man coming out of an alehouse drunk, “What have you been doing? You have been crucifying Our Lord!” they would be quite astonished, because they do not think of it. My children, if we thought of it, we should be seized with horror; it would be impossible for us to do evil. For what has the good God done to us that we should grieve Him thus, and put Him to death again – Him, who has redeemed us from Hell? It would be well if all sinners, when they are going to their guilty pleasures, could, like St. Peter, meet Our Lord on the way, who would say to them, “I am going to that place where you are going yourself, to be there crucified again.” Perhaps that might make them reflect.’
‘This is a good rule of conduct, to do nothing but what we can offer to the good God. Now, we cannot offer to Him slanders, calumnies, injustice, anger, blasphemy, impurity, night clubs, dancing; yet that is all that people do in the world. Speaking of dances, St. Francis of Sales used to say that “they were like mushrooms, the best were good for nothing.” Mothers are apt to say indeed, “Oh, I watch over my daughters.” They watch over their attire, but they cannot watch over their hearts. . . Ah, if they well understood this responsibility they would never have any dances. Just like those who make bad pictures and statues, or write bad books, they will have to answer for all the harm that these things will do during all the time they last.’
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
C
Ceil-1
Guest
How many of us have gone to a night club lately? When I was young, it was bad enough. It was a virtual meat market. But, everyone was covered.
I went to the same one about ten years ago, and almost went numb with shock. Girls dressed in slips up halfway their thighs, and shirts with ONE button, with their tummies hanging out. And they would climb on pedestals sprinkled throughout the dance floor like it was an exotic dance club, and dance rubbing up to one another. Girls and boys alike. The dancing that went on, and the music, which sounded positively diabolical, literally made me sick. I couldn’t believe it. It made me very sad.
I do believe the problem is social dancing. It may not be sinful on the surface, but like any other vice, like, say gambling, or drinking, it must done in moderation with certain rules in place.
More likely than not, St. Jean knew what he was about. I’ve really changed my thinking about dancing in the past few years.
I went to the same one about ten years ago, and almost went numb with shock. Girls dressed in slips up halfway their thighs, and shirts with ONE button, with their tummies hanging out. And they would climb on pedestals sprinkled throughout the dance floor like it was an exotic dance club, and dance rubbing up to one another. Girls and boys alike. The dancing that went on, and the music, which sounded positively diabolical, literally made me sick. I couldn’t believe it. It made me very sad.
I do believe the problem is social dancing. It may not be sinful on the surface, but like any other vice, like, say gambling, or drinking, it must done in moderation with certain rules in place.
More likely than not, St. Jean knew what he was about. I’ve really changed my thinking about dancing in the past few years.
D
Dtmccameron
Guest
Oh, sure! That rule seems strict/harsh/unreasonable/I-just-don’t-wanna thereby, the holy man *must *be wrong. After all, other’s were wrong when he was around, why not him too! Aquinas said extramarital kissing was wrong, but, y’know, he’s not infallable!
cough Unlike our own understanding.
The again, aren’t the Baptists against dancing? Let’s do it then…Just to spite them!
T
Tasha
Guest
Thanks to everyone. These posts are great! Instructive and enjoyable, one and all!
K
kliner
Guest
one of the best books i’ve ever read. when read, it will be a response longer even than shin’s, but i believe it is the best response i can giveHi. I just read a sermon by the Cure of Ars. He discusses the evils of dancing. I found it disturbing. Is it a sin to dance? I never thought so, but this sermon is quite clear:
“*Ah, you say, you are making more of it than there really is! I say too much about it? Very well, then. Listen. Did the Holy Fathers of the Church say too much about it? St. Ephraim tells us that dancing is the perdition of girls and women, the blinding of men, the grief of angels, and the joy of the devils. Dear God, can anyone really have their eyes bewitched to such an extent that they will still want to believe that there is no harm in it, while all the time it is the rope by which the Devil pulls the most souls into Hell?”
*
He goes on to chastise parents that let their children dance. It gets pretty heavy:
"The Council of Aix-la-Chapelle forbids dancing, even at weddings. And St. Charles Borromeo, the Archbishop of Milan, says that three years of penance were given to someone who had danced and that if he went back to it, he was threatened with excommunication. If there were no harm in it, then were the Holy Fathers and the Church mistaken?"
Can anyone shed some light on this??? I am afraid to dance now! I always considered dancing a wholesome activity.
: On the Unseriousness of Human Affairs: Teaching, Writing, Playing, Believing, Lecturing, Philosophizing, Singing, Dancing.
C
Cracker_Mom
Guest
I chaperoned a highschool dance several years ago & was totally shocked by what I saw.The motions of the teenagers left nothing to the imagination.Pretty dreadful.
I’ve also been to country dances where everyone-mom,dad,grandparents & grandbabies-are on the dance floor having a great time & nothing suggestive going on.
It just depends.Depends on the type of music folks are dancing to, also.
P
Pro_Auris_Dei
Guest
Do you have any references one could look to for proof of this? Where does this information come from? This claim makes it sound as if someone had compiled statistics on the number of souls entering Heaven and to which parishes they had belonged, in which case I would be really interested to know who was privy to such information.
I have no doubt that it is very likely that such an extraordinarily holy man as the Cure would have more parishioners in Heaven, but again, who would know for sure?
C
Ceil-1
Guest
Yes, I think the music has a lot to do with the type of dancing. Polka is fun and innocent.
kliner, can you give a little blurb on that book on the unseriousness of human affairs?
kliner, can you give a little blurb on that book on the unseriousness of human affairs?
S
Shin
Guest
Well, let me put it to you this way. I have over one hundred quotations from the saints and scriptures on the fewness of the saved, that the saved are a small minority. To contradict these I have nothing. No quotes. None.
There are only a few quotes that cite numbers. St. Leonard of Port Maurice’s sermon cites some of these, so it is a good reference.
Since the numeric references are so rare one can’t get strong statistics from them. But it is always a mere handful out of all, not even one out of a thousand are saved, no it is far far worse. Perhaps one in ten thousand. Perhaps one in twenty thousand. Perhaps…?
In the case of the Cure’ of Ars in particular he says:
“The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vinepickers have passed.”
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
Why are they few:
The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite.
Ecclesiastes 1:15
'One day the saintly Curé d’Ars was visited by a Protestant gentleman. The good priest, thinking he was a Catholic, began to speak to him about Our Lord and the Saints, as he was accustomed to do with all who came to see him.
As the man rose to leave, the Saint gave him a medal as a small remembrance of his visit.
The gentleman said to him: “Dear sir, you have given a medal to one who is a heretic – at least, I am a heretic from your point of view. But although we are not of the same religion, I hope we shall both be in Heaven one day.”
St. John Vianney took the man’s hand in his own and, giving him a penetrating look, answered: “Alas, my friend. We cannot be together in Heaven unless we have begun to live so in this world. Death makes no change in that. As the tree falls, so shall it lie.”
“But, my good Father,” replied the other, “I put my trust in Jesus Christ, Who said, ‘He that believes in Me shall have eternal life.’”
The priest answered: “Jesus Christ said many more things than that. He also said, ‘He that does not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican.’ And he also said, ‘There shall be one fold and one shepherd,’ and He made St. Peter the chief shepherd of His flock.”
Then he added, “My dear friend, there are not two ways of serving Jesus Christ. There is only one good way, and that is to serve Him as He Himself desires to be served.”’
But even more so, in regards to Catholics the fewness applies too:
Bad confessions damned the majority of Christians.
St. Teresa of Avila
“Out of one hundred thousand sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely one will be saved.”
St. Jerome, Priest, Doctor, Father of the Church
“What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!”
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Doctor, Father of the Church
He also adds:
“I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think. I do not think that many priests are saved, but that those who perish are far more numerous.”
What about religious who are not priests?
Many religious go strait to Hell because they do not keep their vows!
St. Vincent Ferrer
Have things changed with modern times?
‘So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell!’
Bl. Jacinta of Fatima
Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that only few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever.
St. John Neumann, Bishop of Philadelphia, U.S.A.
What can we do about this?
Get out of the filth of the horrible torrent of this world, the torrent of thorns that is whirling you into the abyss of eternal perdition. …] This torrent is the world, which resembles an impetuous torrent, full of garbage and evil odours, making a lot of noise but flowing swiftly passed, dragging the majority of men into the pit of perdition.
St. John Eudes, Priest
‘Work out your salvation in fear and trembling!’
St. Paul (Phil 2:12)
‘If the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly sinner appear?’
St. Peter (1 St. Peter 4:18)
So there you have it, as the tree falls, so it lies. . .
As Catholics have always held you must be reconciled with God -before- you die, not after. If we see someone die unrepentant, do we presume in those moments where he has not been conscious to the world he was reconciled with God? It is not impossible but the odds, St. Jerome says, are a hundred thousand to one.
And if you and I don’t repent that’s where we’re going too. Perhaps you said you loved Christ… but you didn’t really mean it in deed, you only held it in your mind as a pretty thought to reassure yourself with.
I think that’s what most people do. We love Christ as a thought in the mind, not with our wills. We go on sinning, and loving the thought of Christ. We never make the change, the conversion, the fight against sin final.
Love… is in the will. And purity of heart is priceless. Whenever I feel myself falter… I just have to go read St. Leonard… or a few quotes…
There are only a few quotes that cite numbers. St. Leonard of Port Maurice’s sermon cites some of these, so it is a good reference.
Since the numeric references are so rare one can’t get strong statistics from them. But it is always a mere handful out of all, not even one out of a thousand are saved, no it is far far worse. Perhaps one in ten thousand. Perhaps one in twenty thousand. Perhaps…?
In the case of the Cure’ of Ars in particular he says:
“The number of the saved is as few as the number of grapes left after the vinepickers have passed.”
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
Why are they few:
The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite.
Ecclesiastes 1:15
'One day the saintly Curé d’Ars was visited by a Protestant gentleman. The good priest, thinking he was a Catholic, began to speak to him about Our Lord and the Saints, as he was accustomed to do with all who came to see him.
As the man rose to leave, the Saint gave him a medal as a small remembrance of his visit.
The gentleman said to him: “Dear sir, you have given a medal to one who is a heretic – at least, I am a heretic from your point of view. But although we are not of the same religion, I hope we shall both be in Heaven one day.”
St. John Vianney took the man’s hand in his own and, giving him a penetrating look, answered: “Alas, my friend. We cannot be together in Heaven unless we have begun to live so in this world. Death makes no change in that. As the tree falls, so shall it lie.”
“But, my good Father,” replied the other, “I put my trust in Jesus Christ, Who said, ‘He that believes in Me shall have eternal life.’”
The priest answered: “Jesus Christ said many more things than that. He also said, ‘He that does not hear the Church, let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican.’ And he also said, ‘There shall be one fold and one shepherd,’ and He made St. Peter the chief shepherd of His flock.”
Then he added, “My dear friend, there are not two ways of serving Jesus Christ. There is only one good way, and that is to serve Him as He Himself desires to be served.”’
But even more so, in regards to Catholics the fewness applies too:
Bad confessions damned the majority of Christians.
St. Teresa of Avila
“Out of one hundred thousand sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely one will be saved.”
St. Jerome, Priest, Doctor, Father of the Church
“What do you think? How many of the inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to tell you is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with its thousands of inhabitants not one hundred people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that!”
St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Doctor, Father of the Church
He also adds:
“I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think. I do not think that many priests are saved, but that those who perish are far more numerous.”
What about religious who are not priests?
Many religious go strait to Hell because they do not keep their vows!
St. Vincent Ferrer
Have things changed with modern times?
‘So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell!’
Bl. Jacinta of Fatima
Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that only few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever.
St. John Neumann, Bishop of Philadelphia, U.S.A.
What can we do about this?
Get out of the filth of the horrible torrent of this world, the torrent of thorns that is whirling you into the abyss of eternal perdition. …] This torrent is the world, which resembles an impetuous torrent, full of garbage and evil odours, making a lot of noise but flowing swiftly passed, dragging the majority of men into the pit of perdition.
St. John Eudes, Priest
‘Work out your salvation in fear and trembling!’
St. Paul (Phil 2:12)
‘If the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly sinner appear?’
St. Peter (1 St. Peter 4:18)
So there you have it, as the tree falls, so it lies. . .
As Catholics have always held you must be reconciled with God -before- you die, not after. If we see someone die unrepentant, do we presume in those moments where he has not been conscious to the world he was reconciled with God? It is not impossible but the odds, St. Jerome says, are a hundred thousand to one.
And if you and I don’t repent that’s where we’re going too. Perhaps you said you loved Christ… but you didn’t really mean it in deed, you only held it in your mind as a pretty thought to reassure yourself with.
I think that’s what most people do. We love Christ as a thought in the mind, not with our wills. We go on sinning, and loving the thought of Christ. We never make the change, the conversion, the fight against sin final.
Love… is in the will. And purity of heart is priceless.
Whenever I feel myself falter… I just have to go read St. Leonard… or a few quotes…
S
Sheeniac
Guest
Good points, Shin. I heard an older priest in NY say in a sermon that it used to be that everyone was happy to make it to purgatory, but now we have everyone canonized just after their deaths.
I do believe that we can increase the numbers through the Divine Mercy chaplets and praying/sacrificing for others. Certainly salvation isn’t cheap.
I do believe that we can increase the numbers through the Divine Mercy chaplets and praying/sacrificing for others. Certainly salvation isn’t cheap.
S
Shin
Guest
You can see a ton of quotes on this old thread by a helpful fellow.
So… if the Cure seems strict! There’s something to be afraid of!
So… if the Cure seems strict! There’s something to be afraid of!
T
Tybourne
Guest
The Holy Cure quotes St Francis de Sales against dancing, but the Holy Bishop of Geneva actually classifies dances and balls as ‘lawful but dangerous’: ccel.org/ccel/desales/devout_life.v.xxxiii.html
It’s important to bear in mind that these balls would have been rather like country dances, quite different from the lascivious grinding that goes on in modern night clubs. That’s quite another matter.
J
JimG
Guest
Nothing against the Cure of Ars, who was a very holy priest, but this is one more reason why I am glad I never had to go to confession to him!
C
Ceil-1
Guest
It sounds as though the Amish are on the right tack. Should earnest Catholics live an Amish lifestyle?
S
Shin
Guest
If your soul is in danger. . it might be worth considering.
Nothing like a clean, spartan life in the country with good hearted folks.
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