That was my point
…but I would add, what others have already mentioned, that certain kinds of dancing (I’m sure you can conjure up a few) are inherently evil-as the good Saint implied…and Mary did say at Fatima, that more souls go to hell for*** sins of the flesh***, than any other sin.:coolinoff:Better, I think, would be to say, “God help and have mercy on the soul too weak to accept the truth of such stuff!”Those quotations are a temptation to despair. What is the point of bothering, if it is so certain that few will be saved ? Such quotations make the Good News the worst possible news there could be; as well as being a temptation to sins such as blasphemy, suicide, licentiousness, hatred of God, despair, & other such. God help & have mercy on anyone troubled by scruples who comes across such stuff!
The writings of such saints indicates quite clearly that perhaps all of heathans, heretics and non-believers will be damned… Alongside most Catholics. So you can cling to this hope, this Holy Church, and truly strive to serve God, or you can burn…BTW: how does this doctrine not make the Church the vestibule or the pathway to Hell ?That is what this gloom and doom amounts to. It is far better to avoid Catholicism like the doorway to Hell this doctrines make it: for the less grace people have received, the less they will be answerable for; so it is better to die an unevangelised atheist, than to die a Catholic. Both (it seems) will go to Hell, but the Catholic will be the more deeply damned.
Is it that they have said nothing of it, or simply that they weren’t quoted on it in the post above?
Indeed quite a lot to bear, but then, aside from that charitable hope we’re told to hold to, is there any Saint who says that they stood a good chance of being in heaven? Were they the grapes left behind? We can hope so. We can hope that they were not amongst the “snowflakes falling in the winter mist” into Perdition.
In my experience, Protestants don’t follow to closely the teachings of their founders. I spent five years in a Lutheran church and never really got to know the real Luther, or hear any of his teachings. The most I got out of it was “Catholics are idolaters and buy their way to heaven.” Of corse, the lubby-dubby feel good, 'Jesus loves ya!" lack of theology caused me to take up a stance rather similar to Luther’s. Which was kinda funny, in an ironic sort of way.P.S. Saw an odd announcement on a local Presbyterian church marquee on my way home:“John Calvin Celebration!”
Now what kind of celebrating would that be?
So extrapolating from your response - which included an earlier posting of mine - you **do **hold that people go to Hell for dancing the waltz (which was the premise in which I framed my earlier post)? To be joined, presumably, by all the priests who have attended generations of family wedding receptions and who failed to warn us that even waltzing was a mortal sin?Better, I think, would be to say, “God help and have mercy on the soul too weak to accept the truth of such stuff!”
The writings of such saints indicates quite clearly that perhaps all of heathans, heretics and non-believers will be damned… Alongside most Catholics. So you can cling to this hope, this Holy Church, and truly strive to serve God, or you can burn…
Is it that they have said nothing of it, or simply that they weren’t quoted on it in the post above?
Indeed quite a lot to bear, but then, aside from that charitable hope we’re told to hold to, is there any Saint who says that they stood a good chance of being in heaven? Were they the grapes left behind? We can hope so. We can hope that they were not amongst the “snowflakes falling in the winter mist” into Perdition.
But it is a very harsh reality, who will waste time in the face of it? Ah, too harsh to accept, they’ll ignore it and go on.
In my experience, Protestants don’t follow to closely the teachings of their founders. I spent five years in a Lutheran church and never really got to know the real Luther, or hear any of his teachings. The most I got out of it was “Catholics are idolaters and buy their way to heaven.” Of corse, the lubby-dubby feel good, 'Jesus loves ya!" lack of theology caused me to take up a stance rather similar to Luther’s. Which was kinda funny, in an ironic sort of way.
Noone(including St.John Vianney) is saying that all those who dance a waltz will go to hell. You should know , as a Catholic, that hell is chosen by those sinners who are** in love with their sin** and reject the grace of God due to their attachment to it. The Mercy of God is endless, but those who are unrepentant and defiantly turn away from God, are liable to reject the free gift of salvation. Our free will decides…therefore, “be** perfect**, as your** Heavenly Father** is perfect…” (Jesus’ own words) And when you fall and fail, He has provided the remedy…the Tribunal of Mercy-the Sacrament of Reconciliation!
And yet Catholics do and continue to celebrate the wonders of the flesh, as evidenced to day in the homily from EWTN. We are not Calvinists, as has been rightly pointed out.That was my point
“wonders of the flesh…???” Sin is anything but “wonder-ful”.
Flesh is not sinful, nor matter.God created both. Therefore our bodies should be a thing of wonder.But not misused.
Scuse me? Who’s misunderstanding?
Correct!
And just how are they to meet to plan to become married men and women if they don’t dance together or enjoy other pursuits together? Yes, boys and girls together are walking/talking near occasions of sin, but they could also be near occasions of courtship.
Our bodies are “temples of the Holy Spirit”.
Take a chill-pill, sister.:snowing:…now, let’s get a few points straight…sins of the flesh/body,NOT body=sin. … okay, Jesus became flesh/man=NO SIN.
Absolutely!
Anyone here pushing sinfulness or failing to recognize that it exists? Don’t see 'em.Take a chill-pill, sister.:snowing:…now, let’s get a few points straight…sins of the flesh/body,NOT body=sin. … okay, Jesus became flesh/man=NO SIN.
God created everything good-Man disobeyed and*** FELL from grace. God sent His only Son to restore man to grace and those who accept His free gift of salvation become His adopted sons and daughters…THIS IS VERY GOOD!!
But, here’s the punch-line…“the wages of sin is death…” Concupiscence remains until judgment, "therefore, guard*** your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus…"
:wink: