The cureall for stoping abortion

[mommy]

SusanL:

Let’s not hijack this thread into the feminist movement. If you want to talk about the feminist movement then please start another thread.

I don’t mean to hijack into another subject, but I think the two really go hand in hand. I’ll keep it relevant to this subject.

Tlaloc:

Really? Cause it sort of seems like it helped get women the vote in its earlies incarnation and since then has helped them become more independent and free to pursue the life they want. But if you say that’s nothing then I guess it is…

In the 20’s women got the right to vote. But that’s not the feminist movement I was talking about, it was the bra burning, I don’t need a man feminisists of the 60’s and 70’s.

The ones that told me while I was growing up that I was lazy if I stayed home with my kids. That I had to have a career, because I shouldn’t be dependant on ‘some man’ The ones that advocated sex out of marriage, and living together as a viable option. The ones who downplayed the importance of the family. And the specific roles of mothers and fathers.

In the 60’s we got the pill, in the 70’s we got abortion. Now, in the 90’s and 00’s we get to have sex with who ever we want. And then we’re told to ‘get rid’ of any consequences of that action. And how many children are being raised by one parent? How many are being short changed, because mom wouldn’t abort when dad said you better or I’m gone?

The pill won’t stop abortion. Having LESS SEX will stop abortion. Having sex with someone you love and who will love your children. Your right to choose starts when you choose to say yes to sex. Then it ends.

Same for me on this thread for now, because frankly I’m tired of talking to a brick wall.

 

[Pious_Redeemer]

Dear Mommy,

I’m afraid that abstinence will only cause another mortal sin to be committed that is even harder to track down or to forbid, especially among male adolescents: masturbation.

 

[DeniseR]

Tlaloc:

No there isn’t anything wrong with teaching abstinence, but abstinence only education works very poorly. Abstinence in conjunction with information about contraceptives works much better.

Not everyone shares your belief on sexuality. Those who don’t (who may even be your own children) have no reason to obey your taboos.

Let me tell you about my experience in high school 25+ years ago. My parents expected abstinance but they didn’t directly tell me. It was understood. When I was a senior I took a class called Social Issues. One of the units was when Planned Parenthood was invited in. They spent the class period teaching on each of the contraceptives available. They stressed that we could come in for free contraceptives and it was totally confidential. They would not tell our parents. Guess what message I listened to? The silent, understood message from my parents or the vocal, permissive one from an agency that didn’t have my best interests in mind? I became sexually active and used the pill as my form of birth control. My friend used birth control but got pregnant and had an abortion that I later learned about. She still suffers from that decision (choice) to this day.

I didn’t get pregnant (at least not that I know of) but I suffered emotionally from the guilt of my promiscuity of engaging in sexual relations before I was married. I would have loved to have an abstinance only message. I take responsibility for my actions as a teenager but I’m not going to make the same mistake with my kids that my parents made. I am telling them to wait until marriage and why. There is no ambiguity. The decision to wait or not to have sex will be theirs but if they do it will not be because I gave them mixed messages.

 

[jimmy]

Tlaloc:

It hasn’t been effective in any society, not even when the church ruled the western world. It doesn’t even work in the strictest islamic countries where women can be stoned to death for having sex outside of marriage.

My suggestion is based on what seems to work the best. Teaching both abstinence and contraception along side sex ed.

Really? Cause it sort of seems like it helped get women the vote in its earlies incarnation and since then has helped them become more independent and free to pursue the life they want. But if you say that’s nothing then I guess it is…

Teaching contraception has done a great job, yeah. There are much more STDs now. There are over a million abortions a year. That is pretty good teaching.

What helped women to get the right to vote? Contraception? If that is what you think then you are very confussed.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

jimmy:

Teaching contraception has done a great job, yeah. There are much more STDs now. There are over a million abortions a year. That is pretty good teaching.

What helped women to get the right to vote? Contraception? If that is what you think then you are very confussed.

Agreed. Teaching contraception promotes promiscuity. But then again, moral instruction begins in the home, not the classroom.

 

[Beaver]

You can legally rape a man, but rape a woman and you will find yourself in court. This is BIAS in the N degree.

 

[SusanL]

Pious Redeemer:

Dear Mommy,

I’m afraid that abstinence will only cause another mortal sin to be committed that is even harder to track down or to forbid, especially among male adolescents: masturbation.

I don’t believe that abstinence will cause masturbation. Here is where home training really is crucial. Spiritual training, love for our Lord. All of the things that hold our sinful nature in check. Today’s world is working very hard to steal our children. We have to work even harder to keep them pure. Avoiding the commitment to abstinence so as to avoid masturbation is illogical and dangerous.

 

[Genesis315]

Pious Redeemer:

Dear Mommy,

I’m afraid that abstinence will only cause another mortal sin to be committed that is even harder to track down or to forbid, especially among male adolescents: masturbation.

This is false and an irresponsible statement. I mean, you may be an animal with uncontrolable urges, but most of us here are human beings, who with God’s help, can learn to discipline ourselves (this includes adolescents).

 

[caroljm36]

Beaver:

You can legally rape a man, but rape a woman and you will find yourself in court. This is BIAS in the N degree.

Where did you get that little bit of information? You can’t legally rape a man either. Who told you that? What do you think these sex abuse scandals are about? If priests had been raping grown men it still would have been a crime. This is what my state’s laws say, and they’re based on Illinois criminal law.

45-5-503. Sexual intercourse without consent. (1) A person who knowingly has sexual intercourse without consent with another person commits the offense of sexual intercourse without consent.

 

[SeekerJen]

gladtobe:

The cure for abortion is not to outlaw abortion, but to get at the root of why women have abortions anyway.

I was in agreement with you on this point, although the end goal would be to outlaw abortions, preferably because there was no longer a demand once the reasons for abortion were addressed.

And that is because women of all ages are not taking the pill before having sex. Enforce the pill and you will stop abortion

Then you posted this and I just had to shake my head in disbelief. Setting aside the fact that contraception is against Church teaching…you do realize that one of the main reasons for abortion is contraceptive failure? The Pill has a 95% annual success rate in preventing pregnancy (look up any Pill manufacturer- the stats are printed in the patient info packets). That means that every year, 5% of women who use the Pill will have an unintended pregnancy. In reality that number is higher because it only counts women who use the pill exactly as intended. It doesn’t count women who miss a pill, or who don’t take the pill at the same time every day. And what do you think those women who had a Pill failure do with their pregnancies? If they wanted to avoid a pregnancy badly enough that they would put those chemicals into their bodies, what do you think they will do when they find out that the chemicals didn’t work? Half of all unplanned pregnancies end in abortion. Do the math.

 

[legeorge]

Has anyone else noticed that the OP dropped this bomb and then fled from the thread, never to return? Wonder what the motive might have been for that?

 

[BlindSheep]

Tlaloc:

It hasn’t been effective in any society, not even when the church ruled the western world. It doesn’t even work in the strictest islamic countries where women can be stoned to death for having sex outside of marriage.

Depends what you mean by “effective”. If you mean significantly reducing premarital sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy, you’re wrong. Societies and historical periods where abstainence-only is promoted have much lower rates of premarital sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy. But if, by ‘effective’, you mean “eliminates unwanted pregnancy completely”, of course it doesn’t. Only totalitarian method would achieve that.
If you give teens the message that they are expected to be sexually active, many more of them will be.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

legeorge:

Has anyone else noticed that the OP dropped this bomb and then fled from the thread, never to return? Wonder what the motive might have been for that?

What does a soldier do after he pulls a pin from a hand grenade and then throws it?

 

[BlindSheep]

Another thing - I do plan to discuss birth control with my daughters when they are older. However, it won’t be a “if you do have sex, at least use birth control” type of discussion. The message will be “don’t be fooled by the claim that birth control makes sex ‘safe’”. I’ll give them all the reasons that birth control is harmful, immoral, and unreliable, to make it even more clear they should wait for marriage.

 

[Tlaloc]

DeniseR:

Let me tell you about my experience in high school 25+ years ago. My parents expected abstinance but they didn’t directly tell me. It was understood. When I was a senior I took a class called Social Issues. One of the units was when Planned Parenthood was invited in. They spent the class period teaching on each of the contraceptives available. They stressed that we could come in for free contraceptives and it was totally confidential. They would not tell our parents. Guess what message I listened to? The silent, understood message from my parents or the vocal, permissive one from an agency that didn’t have my best interests in mind?

As I said go ahead and teach abstinence (openly) but don’t teach only abstinence.

 

[Tlaloc]

jimmy:

Teaching contraception has done a great job, yeah. There are much more STDs now. There are over a million abortions a year. That is pretty good teaching.

The teaching of contraceptives and the availability of those contraceptives is constantly under attack by social conservatives.

 

[Tlaloc]

BlindSheep:

Depends what you mean by “effective”. If you mean significantly reducing premarital sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy, you’re wrong. Societies and historical periods where abstainence-only is promoted have much lower rates of premarital sex and out-of-wedlock pregnancy.

No they haven’t. What they’ve had is a lot more of covering it up.

If you give teens the message that they are expected to be sexually active, many more of them will be.

Give them the message that when they do become sexually active they need to be careful and how to go about that.

 

[adnauseum]

Funny how we think we can teach a no-tolerance stance on racism, smoking, and drug use, but complete helplessness prevails when it comes to pre-marital sex, as if it’s the one thing that’s not worth trying to conquer.

We live in a culture of depravity.

Sad.

 

[Beaver]

caroljm36:

Where did you get that little bit of information? You can’t legally rape a man either. Who told you that? What do you think these sex abuse scandals are about? If priests had been raping grown men it still would have been a crime. This is what my state’s laws say, and they’re based on Illinois criminal law.

45-5-503. Sexual intercourse without consent. (1) A person who knowingly has sexual intercourse without consent with another person commits the offense of sexual intercourse without consent.

What do think contraception is. It is permision to abuse men and turn rape against them.

 

[4_marks]

The Pill is not the “cure all” for stopping abortion. Your logic here is as ridiculous as saying the “cure all” for stopping abortion is homosexuality.

The root problem behind rampant abortion on demand is a moral one.